NWN2 Mod: Baldur's Gate 2: Reloaded - Teaser Trailer

gabrielarantest said:

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And I don't think that being critical is the same as being disrespectful. Saying that the mod is a waste of time does not strike me as a reasonable critic or respectful.

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Its one person's take on how much value it is to them. Personal judgements are always subjective and I like hearing the positive and negative takes myself. Personally if I see forums full of the same opinions I stay far, far away.

rjshae said:

Well that's your perspective, and we're free to ignore it and just continue modding because we enjoy it. If you don't enjoy our efforts, well… I don't care.

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And I don't care that you don't care. If you come here and browse a topic that was brought up and exposed for debate and opinion, you'll read my debate and opinion and there is nothing you can do about it, other than skipping past my posts because they are too much for you to handle.

I understand, words used in the internet are scary, and people who have different points of view? Damn, those are the worst. Especially when they refuse to think the way you do. So infuriating. Best to be a manbaby and cover your eyes and ears.

gabrielarantest said:

And I don't think that being critical is the same as being disrespectful. Saying that the mod is a waste of time does not strike me as a reasonable critic or respectful.

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Once again, modding for an ugly, clunky, dead engine that doesn't even generally look better than BG2 itself, like is the case with NWN2, is a waste of time because it will reach at best a few hundred players worldwide. That's my opinion, deal with it. You may think differently, which is acceptable. You may think I'm wrong and this mod will become popular and be played by hundreds of thousands, which is also acceptable as an opinion.

But if you think my opinion is disrespectful, even after I stated twice that they are a talented team that is working hard and that merits mention, then you have never truly been treated disrespectfully in your life, else your threshold would lie elsewhere, I assure you.

Nereida said:

But if you think my opinion is disrespectful, even after I stated twice that they are a talented team that is working hard and that merits mention, then you have never truly been treated disrespectfully in your life, else your threshold would lie elsewhere, I assure you.

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This rhetoric of "I say whatever I want and if you get offended it's on you" is so... nevermind. Ok dude, keep telling people that their 7-year work is a wasted effort and keep telling yourself that this is "respect". I did not work on this, so I am not personally offended. I just loved the first mod and I think that the cRPG community should show more appreciation for projects like that demand so much voluntary work. Anyway, I made my point, you made yours, let's move on.

gabrielarantest said:

I just loved the first mod

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Awesome. Good for you, it's a valid opinion.

and I think that the cRPG community should show more appreciation for projects like that demand so much voluntary work.

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Here is where we differ. Nobody should anything because of what seems right or wrong according to your own mindset. You think you should show appreciation? Do it! Don't tell me what I should or not, thank you.

Anyway, I made my point, you made yours, let's move on.

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And this is the one thing we'll easily agree on. Except when in next post you come again to tell me how I should think or who I should thank in another attempt to suppress my freedom of thought or speech to suit your moralities? Let's hope not.

Not being obnoxious is indeed a choice.

gabrielarantest said:

What you are saying is basically that the trailer is bad and you have the right to express your opinion about it. Ok, sure, here is the internet and you can say whatever you want. But keep in mind that the authors of this mod are not receiving any money to do it. The fact that they got a job in the game industry is a consequence of their labor, not the reason they did it. They are doing this because they like BG and want to share it with other people. So, when you criticize their work, you are not criticizing a greedy company that wants to capitalize on your hobby, you are criticizing people like us that love such games and are doing this out of their goodwill. And in doing so, you are taking away the only thing that they get by doing this: a thank you.

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I get what you say but I still think it's valid to criticize projects like this. He's not working in private, but is (of course) publishing it. If you go to public, you have to live with critics, especially when it's not insulting or offensive in another way.

Many years ago when NWN persistent worlds were still a thing I modded a lot. I sunk hundreds of hours in it. (I don't think it was as much work as these BG conversion, but that's not the point.)
We went/were public and of course we got criticism. Every time. But that was ok as long as it wasn't unfair. We even wanted to hear criticism as every creator should.

And btw I did not criticize the work. In fact I haven't even seen it. (Which was part of my criticism on the trailer.) My criticism was that I doubted the general sense of purpose of trying to build BG in Aurora as I just think that it doesn't add value.
However I might be wrong. Hearing that a BG1 conversion has already been done, I might even give it a try.

Morrandir said:

I get what you say but I still think it's valid to criticize projects like this.

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I agree. I did intend to speak no more about it. But since you were so polite, I will explain myself better: I do not think that such projects are above criticism. Nor am I against free-speech (what a ridiculous argument btw). The problem is that some mistake free-speech with the liberty to insult, and constructive criticism with destructive comments. The internet gives you the anonymity to say what you will without backlash. And that blurs this line. My tip to differentiate between the two is to ask yourself "would I say this to anyone's face?". Unless you are really mean I doubt that you would say "This reeks of wasted effort" to someone's face while he/she is presenting to you a project that took 7-years to complete. Particularly if you are only seeing the trailer of it.

I have made some criticism in this same Forum myself. And sometimes I made some comments that were not constructive. One day I discovered that developers of games that I criticized go to this forum, read stuff and sometimes even make comments. And I felt really bad because I started thinking "what if I offended someone's work"…. Anyways, now I just try to be mindful of other people's work.

Morrandir said:

However I might be wrong. Hearing that a BG1 conversion has already been done, I might even give it a try.

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If you enjoyed NWN2 I encourage you to give it a try. It's a masterpiece of a mod IMO.

I am not sure why you see Nereida’s personal opinions as insults to the developers. For me the work they put into it is a waste of time as well. If it isn’t for those working on it and others; Good for all of you. I don’t have more or less respect for someone because of that.
And yes, I have said that to people in real life as well, when they were investing a lot of time into something that looks like a waste of time to me. But if they are happy doing it, by all means they should go ahead and spend the time on it they want. It is their time.
I have been told the same about some of the things that I do as well. I have never seen that as being disrespectful to me. I always have seen it that I was doing something that they would never do and in which they also have no interest in once it is completed. Which makes it a waste of time to them.

Indeed, "waste of time (or effort)" is not an insult because there is nothing wrong in wasting your own time: It's a matter of perspective. Many people see gaming as a waste of time, which is no doubt true from a certain point of view. Yet, many of those people watch TV, which they do not see as a waste of time. I see modding such large projects waste of time because I do not have the time to try such mods. Yet, if a modder tells me they are having fun or getting something else positive out of their project, I understand that it is not a waste of time for *them*…and that's all that matters. It's not a waste of your time as long as you'll get something out of it.

I wanted to react to how some people take modding as a public service everyone should be grateful for. I personally could not care less if someone is putting 10 000 hours of their time to a certain mod because I will never use that mod myself. Still, I don't judge people who do use their time on such projects. Just do not think you are making service for everyone - because you are not. The same applies to all sorts of volunteering. Some people get something out of your effort - most do not. People have different interests and points of view. That's how the world works. I believe we are writing on internet forums to express our opinions and read others. Imposing your opinion on someone else is disrespectful. Just accept that people are different and respect it.

PS. The reaction was probably not based on only this thread and I have seen people writing disrespectful shit on this forum. I don't think this thread was (very) disrespectful, however. People were just expressing their point of view.

I effectively waste my time every day playing games, so there is that.

The premise is that you are devving something to reach an audience, and NWN2 is, in my opinion, an awful platform for it, hence the effort will be wasted, or not very efficient at least, if what they want is to reach an audience.

That same amount of talent and effort used in a different way would have reached, in my opinion, a much higher amount of potential end-users, making the talent and effort used much more worthwhile.

If I am criticising anything myself, is their choice of using NWN2, and NWN2 itself as an "upgrade" to BG2, not the devs, their talent or their effort. I don't know how else I can spell this anymore, but it's obvious I have high respect and admiration for game devs (my partner is one, a senior engineer in a AAA studio, and makes the very games some of you love). I hope that clarifies things a little for those that still are choosing to feel offended by whatever I type.

Myrthos said:

I am not sure why you see Nereida’s personal opinions as insults to the developers.

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I just put myself in the shoes of these developers reading this. And I would feel bad in their place. Maybe that's just me. Or maybe it's a cultural difference. Maybe from where you come from it's ok to say such things, but where I come from it would at least be considered impolite. Anyways, since most of you seem to be ok with this, I will shut my trap.

largh said:

Imposing your opinion on someone else is disrespectful. Just accept that people are different and respect it.

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I am not imposing anything on anyone. I don't own this forum. I have no control over what you write here. But I do have the right to "free speech" the same as you, right? So, please, let me express my opinion too. And please, accept that I am different than you.

Nereida said:

I hope that clarifies things a little for those that still are choosing to feel offended by whatever I type.

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Thanks for clarifying things. As I said before, I am not personally offended. Additionally, I am not choosing anything, I just felt that the comment was disrespectful. Some seem to agree, others don't. And now, please, let's move on.