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Default NWN2 Mod: Baldur's Gate 2: Reloaded - Teaser Trailer

September 18th, 2020, 09:48
Originally Posted by gabrielarantest View Post
I played their first mod for NWN2, the BGR1. It was nothing short of amazing.
Maybe the trailer should have highlighted some of that instead of endless title cards and blink and you'll miss it footage; those sorts of trailers do a project no favors. It gives an impression there's nothing to show.
Are they afraid people who click on a video like this will be frightened off by NWN2's creaky look?
I and most who view the video are well aware of NWN2 and are willing to put the effort into playing quality mods on that engine Just show the frickin' gameplay! :^D
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September 18th, 2020, 10:57
Originally Posted by gabrielarantest View Post
Wow. I came here expecting lots of praise for this project only to find out lots of posts s** on it.
Take it easy, I don't see anyone shitting on it. It's all modest.

Just…why???
Well, because the trailer actually is not very good and some don't see additional value in the project. Why should we not say that?

However if the developer used this project for his portfolio to get a job in the industry, that would indeed be a very valid reason to sink time in it.
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September 18th, 2020, 11:28
Yeah the BG Reloaded videos on YouTube look pretty impressive. I'm happy with the originals so I don't think I'd ever play it personally, but I can see why others would do.
The trailer for BG2 is underwhelming, but I'll be interested to see the footage when completed. It's nice to see some of the maps I know so well working in a 3d engine!
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September 18th, 2020, 14:33
They need to give up all the remakes of BG 2. (When I say "they" I mean just in general the rpg indie developers out there, not trying to target this one in particular)

I'm a gigantic fan of Baldur's Gate games like most other hard core rpg players, but come on, this is like remaking a famous movie like "Psycho" (or just pick a classic move that should never have been remade and got a lousy modern Hollywood remake), and its time to move on. They will never recapture what made Baldur's Gate unique and great.

And Neverwinter Nights engine should not be used for anything, just a horrible game engine.
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September 18th, 2020, 16:05
Originally Posted by Arkadia7 View Post
And Neverwinter Nights engine should not be used for anything, just a horrible game engine
… and to this day the only one (I know of) that allows modding, self-hosting, and a meaningful dungeon-master mode.
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September 18th, 2020, 16:11
All I know is no other game has had me re-play it for over 10+ years. Kudos to Bio-ware and Obsidian for creating the engines, and games to play with player created mods.
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September 18th, 2020, 16:20
I agree about NWN. NWN2 is a motherless mess that should never be looked at.
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September 18th, 2020, 18:20
Originally Posted by shamroxor View Post
Maybe the trailer should have highlighted some of that instead of endless title cards and blink and you'll miss it footage; those sorts of trailers do a project no favors. It gives an impression there's nothing to show.
Are they afraid people who click on a video like this will be frightened off by NWN2's creaky look?
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
Take it easy, I don't see anyone shitting on it. It's all modest.

Well, because the trailer actually is not very good and some don't see additional value in the project. Why should we not say that?

However if the developer used this project for his portfolio to get a job in the industry, that would indeed be a very valid reason to sink time in it.
What you are saying is basically that the trailer is bad and you have the right to express your opinion about it. Ok, sure, here is the internet and you can say whatever you want. But keep in mind that the authors of this mod are not receiving any money to do it. The fact that they got a job in the game industry is a consequence of their labor, not the reason they did it. They are doing this because they like BG and want to share it with other people. So, when you criticize their work, you are not criticizing a greedy company that wants to capitalize on your hobby, you are criticizing people like us that love such games and are doing this out of their goodwill. And in doing so, you are taking away the only thing that they get by doing this: a thank you.
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September 18th, 2020, 20:12
Originally Posted by gabrielarantest View Post
And in doing so, you are taking away the only thing that they get by doing this: a thank you.
He's not taking the only thing they actually get out of it: Personal satisfaction. If they are doing it to get "thank yous" then they are in the wrong world. Besides, I'm sure they're getting plenty of "thank yous" from people who actually are into the project itself, but the fact that someone puts effort into something doesn't have to impose onto anyone having to be thankful about it.

It would be pretty screwed up if I had to go around the world thanking everyone who makes something that in my mind is useless, pointless, or does not change the quality of my life in any way because I can't care about it or have no interest on.

The only reason people are giving opinions here is that it was posted in a forum, which, in is essence, ever since its Roman origins, is meant as a place for opinion and debate.

I honestly grow tired of people who tell others the right way to think or act.
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September 18th, 2020, 20:43
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post

It would be pretty screwed up if I had to go around the world thanking everyone who makes something that in my mind is useless, pointless, or does not change the quality of my life in any way because I can't care about it or have no interest on.

The only reason people are giving opinions here is that it was posted in a forum, which, in is essence, ever since its Roman origins, is meant as a place for opinion and debate.
Ok, well, sure. You can express your opinion and you don't need to thank anyone that does nothing for you. But you don't need to say things like this:

Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
This reeks of wasted effort.
Especially for voluntary work that is not asking you for your money. Because this is not a constructive opinion. You are just wrecking other's people voluntary work with that comment and not doing anything useful. And if you stop doing that, maybe, you won't need to go through this:

Originally Posted by Nereida View Post

I honestly grow tired of people who tell others the right way to think or act.
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September 18th, 2020, 21:12
I already explained why to me it's wasted effort, and why it shouldn't be mistaken with it not being something that takes a lot of effort and talent. They are independent.

If anything, it's more hurtful to see good talent and effort wasted.
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September 18th, 2020, 21:38
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
I already explained why to me it's wasted effort, and why it shouldn't be mistaken with it not being something that takes a lot of effort and talent. They are independent.

If anything, it's more hurtful to see good talent and effort wasted.
Aren't all hobbies "wasted effort"? They can still be enjoyable pastimes, and the participants rarely feel like it was time wasted. Do you feel like playing games is wasted effort? Seriously, I wouldn't think of this as people doing jobs.
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September 18th, 2020, 21:54
That's not comparable. When developing something you want to reach others, the least potential end-users the less return you get from your effort. Now if they are doing it for themselves, again, nobody will take the personal satisfaction they get from it. If they want to reach an audience, using NWN2 is wasted effort, because in all favourable conditions, a few hundred people worldwide will even notice it exists, or care to purchase/install the base game.

Proof@ Most people here are cRPG lovers, and nobody even know the first game was a thing, and decided it looked good after checking it just now, due to this thread.
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September 18th, 2020, 22:17
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
I already explained why to me it's wasted effort, and why it shouldn't be mistaken with it not being something that takes a lot of effort and talent. They are independent.

If anything, it's more hurtful to see good talent and effort wasted.
It's not a wasted effort to me. I enjoyed BGR a lot and I bet I will enjoy BGR2 as well. And btw, I do like NWN2, one of my favorite games. So in my perspective, you are just discouraging voluntary work in mods/games that I like.

I hate FPS games. Some people spend time modding such games. But you don't see me going on forums saying that people are wasting time making mods for FPS games just because I don't like it.
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September 18th, 2020, 22:54
Originally Posted by gabrielarantest View Post
I hate FPS games. Some people spend time modding such games. But you don't see me going on forums saying that people are wasting time making mods for FPS games just because I don't like it.
I also dislike FPS games. I also don't go to FPS forums. I like RPG games, I go to RPG forums.

Forum, a word from Latin, its origin in the Roman era, was a public space for debate and opinion. A topic was exposed in the RPG forum, the place where games that align with my general interests are debated and given opinions about. I debated and gave my opinion on this topic, and you will not censor it just because it isn't aligned with your opinions or moralities, so long I did not insult anyone in an inflammatory way by doing so.

In here, people flame and roast potential masterpieces like BG3 or Cyberpunk2077 on daily basis, so you will need to learn to handle how others might have a poor opinion of anything that's worse than BG3 or Cyberpunk2077, including a NWN2 mod, because no, not everyone has irrational sympathy for indie developers or modding communities, and while they may be respected for their work, it's their work and the media they use that receives the judgement.
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September 18th, 2020, 23:40
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
Forum, a word from Latin, its origin in the Roman era, was a public space for debate and opinion.
Omg. I got it, you know history. But saying that someone is wasting their time doing something that they like and other people may like is not the same as arguing and giving an opinion. Further, yeah, I believe that you should judge differently the work of game developers and modders because the first is a company trying to sell you something, you are the client, and the latter you are getting something for free. Have you never heard "Don't look a gift horse in the mouth"??
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September 19th, 2020, 00:23
Originally Posted by gabrielarantest View Post
I hate FPS games. Some people spend time modding such games. But you don't see me going on forums saying that people are wasting time making mods for FPS games just because I don't like it.
The actual direct comparison would be, say, remaking the first Duke Nuke 'Em in the first Doom's engine. You don't have to hate FPS games to lack interest in such a project.
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September 19th, 2020, 00:43
Originally Posted by gabrielarantest View Post
the latter you are getting something for free
I don't get this part although I am an open-source developer myself. Nothing is for free: for gaming, we use time, which is money as they say. If the game very objectively sucks, we are wasting our time, which is money as they say. I would rather spend 60$ for a game that does not very objectively suck than waste my time playing a mod with outdated graphics, poor engine and a story I could enjoy in the original product as well. Unless the mod was awesome. A fact I cannot evaluate based on the trailer.

I don't say that I would know whether this mod would suck. All I said was that the trailer was not very impressive given the seven years of work put in the project and was questioning their promise of the release next year. That's all. Get insulted, if you wish (not you but someone else did). They did not give us much information in that trailer.

I don't think "negativity" and "being critical" are the same. It is allowed to be critical based on the information we were given. If we are given information that makes us think negative things about the possible result, it should be allowed to express those opinions here.

PS. Respect for the devs. They are clearly doing this out of passion and getting satisfaction out of it. That's all that matters.
Last edited by largh; September 19th, 2020 at 01:21.
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September 19th, 2020, 01:12
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
That's not comparable. When developing something you want to reach others, the least potential end-users the less return you get from your effort. Now if they are doing it for themselves, again, nobody will take the personal satisfaction they get from it. If they want to reach an audience, using NWN2 is wasted effort, because in all favourable conditions, a few hundred people worldwide will even notice it exists, or care to purchase/install the base game.

Proof@ Most people here are cRPG lovers, and nobody even know the first game was a thing, and decided it looked good after checking it just now, due to this thread.
Well that's your perspective, and we're free to ignore it and just continue modding because we enjoy it. If you don't enjoy our efforts, well… I don't care.
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September 19th, 2020, 05:48
Originally Posted by largh View Post
I don't get this part although I am an open-source developer myself. Nothing is for free: for gaming, we use time, which is money as they say.

PS. Respect for the devs. They are clearly doing this out of passion and getting satisfaction out of it. That's all that matters.
We (players) get the mod for free and if it is not free to make then even more reason to respect moders effort don't you think?

Originally Posted by largh View Post
Unless the mod was awesome.
The first mod was awesome. No reason to think that the second is going to be any different.

Originally Posted by largh View Post
A fact I cannot evaluate based on the trailer.

I don't say that I would know whether this mod would suck. All I said was that the trailer was not very impressive given the seven years of work put in the project and was questioning their promise of the release next year. That's all.
That is the problem you see. There is not much to judge, yet some are saying that it was a waste of time. You want to criticize the trailer, fine, but if the trailer was insufficient then better not say that about the game, right?

Originally Posted by largh View Post

I don't think "negativity" and "being critical" are the same. It is allowed to be critical based on the information we were given. If we are given information that makes us think negative things about the possible result, it should be allowed to express those opinions here.
And I don't think that being critical is the same as being disrespectful. Saying that the mod is a waste of time does not strike me as a reasonable critic or respectful.
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