Fallout 3 - Changes to German Version

Hindukönig said:

It's a game. Why does it have to have shooting heads off in the first place?

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Perhaps because violence is part of human nature.
Perhaps because some people actually enjoy violence.
Perhaps because there are specific hormones that our body produces that actually make us hunger for violence. And even though humanity has evolved to a point where life in society is better if we're all nice to each others, and that we're taught not to be violent, and there are rules everywhere that force us to remain calm, part of that cave man side is still here.
And games are one last place of freedom... or so I thought. I mean it's virtual, I can actually be violent and give in to that natural side without harming anyone. What's the point in playing a game if the same rules of real life apply? Imagine if you had to stop on the red light and drive at 50mph max in every racing game?

People are entertained by violence. How bout you also ask for real life boxing rugby and corrida to be forbidden?

So yes I want a game where I can shoot heads off, it actually helps me refrain from doing it in real life. It makes me feel better, it entertains me and makes me a better citizen.

Most criminals don't become criminals because of violent video games.
Most gamers don't become criminals.

Violence and games is just the same old trick politicians keep using over and over whenever they need conservative votes and make people think they're actually doing something to "protect our youth". The only danger that comes from playing video games is epilepsy and addiction, not violence.

Alrik Fassbauer said:

I don't believe it is easy to cut someone's limbs off. There's meat, and bones, and muscles, and chords attatched to them - all of them trying their best to keep all limbs together.

In an explosion, yes, that's relatively easy. But just swords, for example ... ? There would be at least some bone holding your strike off, althought the wound would be nasty.

At least until you've got some very, very strong strenth, so to say. You've really got to saw through a bone, and that is not easy at all, as far as I know.

Well, and it depends on how thick the bone actually is, of course. A chicken's bone is much easier to saw through than a bull's bone.

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I've seen someone decapitate a water buffalo with a sword. That's a lot of neck to slice through, but it can be done if you know how. And have a sharp sword. Here's a picture. That red stuff is blood; they dragged the carcasses around in a circle before piling them up. The one you see here is a pretty small one; the bigger ones were a good deal bigger, but I didn't get a picture.



(Kathmandu, 1987, Dasain, if you're curious.)

Edit: I found a picture of a bigger one; it's in the foreground in this one, minus the head.

Stanza said:

Am I missing something? This flip-flop isn't making much sense to me. Was Sacred's gore setting only for Europe in general and disabled in Germany?

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I don't know, honestly.

@Prime Junta: Okay, I see it now.

Yes, you must meet the requited point ... - Where the tissue is loosest ...

I think that Age of Conan should contain some *really* nasty looking scars to be realistic.

Otherwise it just pretends that killing is just a fun game.

(And yes, I do know that AOC doesn't entirely consist of this ...)

Welcome to Nazi-censor-land aka Germany, where always the government knew what people should do. Maybe you Americans can invade us pls once more and replace our Chancellor with some open-minded dictator, who is friendly towards gamers, no? With luck we have oil fields in Berlin. Or not... Aww shucks... Maybe some other time.

Hm, actually I don't quite understand your remark.

What is so to say "nazi-like" in this censoring of games ?

Stanza said:

Sacred came with an "extra chunky" gore setting for Germany, which was initially disabled for the US, then the art assets completely patched out after players found out how to re-enabled it.

Fallout 3 in the US comes with the "extra chunky" gore setting, while Germany has the kinder, gentler deaths.

Am I missing something? This flip-flop isn't making much sense to me. Was Sacred's gore setting only for Europe in general and disabled in Germany?

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It´s making a lot of sense for Germany. Games are judget as the case arises. There is no check list. It´s a framework with lots of variables, with the final judgement being made by a panel. "Realistic violence" is an important point. Sacred was cutesy fantasy stuff, it´s not realistic at all. Another is "Violence for violence's sake". The USK is no fan of senseless violence - bad for a lot of horror games. Another is basic moral standards. Not in a conservative way but rather as a minimum standard. "Cannibalism" is a red flag, "zombies" have to be really careful to avoid the index, and the possibility to throw nuclear bombs on civilists in C&C Generals didn´t earn EA sympathy points.
To make it even more complex, artistic value (as in "art", like "Picasso") can compensate to a certain degree. Educational value too. An example: The scandal movie "The Lover" got an NC-17 in the US (later down to R) due to steamy sex scenes between a man and a 15 year old girl, but it was rated "12" in Germany. The lowest rating worldwide and completely uncut.

Alrik Fassbauer said:

Hm, actually I don't quite understand your remark.

What is so to say "nazi-like" in this censoring of games ?

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I am a German, so before anyone calls me racist.

I find it something typical German, that we lean towards a big brother government, who watches our porn, before we are allowed to watch it, to play out computer games, before we can play them, who tells us where to smoke or not, and placing BIG texts how evil smoking is on every cig, and still have the hypocrisy to take a lot of tax money from it.

I call it typical German that we always have a parental government who think THEY know better what we should do and see.

There is one thing I vividly recall. I was ordering porn from US via internet. What I didnt know is, that ordering it is forbidden in Germany. It wasnt anything ususual, it was the SAME films you could legally buy in Germany in any adult shop. BUT: these from US had not a stamp saying "Chancellor Merkel has watched this porn for you to save you from harm and graciously allows you to get a hardon on this certified porn." Mind you, it was the SAME I am allowed to buy, just lacking the stamp. And what did they do? They didnt ask for me age, they just kept it. End of story. So I have a state which checks what I am supposed to watch. Or smoke. I am vividly against this kind of paternal state. Anything that does not harm another is NO matter of the state. And the great trust many Germans put into the state is something which led us straight to the Nazi regime. Its always this "hey better some strong government takes care of our lives" shit, and I am sick and tired of being treated like an infant from my gov.

If some proven harm to another person would be involved, fine, but this is wanton censorship and nothing less, and basically the SAME line of thought which in the end leads to dictators, because someone tells us "hey I am chancellor/president/dictator and I know better what is good for you than you do." I despise it, always did and always will. As long as people will let others think for them even in the smallest matter, NOTHING will change.

elikal said:

If some proven harm to another person would be involved, fine, but this is wanton censorship and nothing less, and basically the SAME line of thought which in the end leads to dictators, because someone tells us "hey I am chancellor/president/dictator and I know better what is good for you than you do." I despise it, always did and always will. As long as people will let others think for them even in the smallest matter, NOTHING will change.

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Indeed this inflation of stupid policies and governments deciding how we're supposed to live and behave on matters that are strictly personal are annoying.

But where I disagree with you, and the huge difference between western governments (Angela Merkel, US senate, etc.) and dictators, is that, unlike dictators, they don't do it because "they know better" or are concerned about the way we live, actually they don't give a ****, the only thing they care about is being popular/reelected.

So if they're doing that, it's actually because many voters ask for it. And because conservative mothers, moralist fathers are more numerous than you, or rather, they are a population that never skips a vote (unlike younger more freedom oriented populations). Democracy is a system where leaders are sheeps who always go wherever the most votes are.

If the vast majority of the German population felt the violent games or porn markets are too controlled I can assure you Angela Merkel will push for bills to be voted right away by the Bundestag (or is it the Bundesrat?) to free those markets.

Netherlands isn't a country that values freedom above anything because their leaders are smarter or more open minded. It's because the whole Dutch population is like that. Their leaders only reflect that. If Dutch were a conservative scared and order-obsessed people, their leaders would pass policies to restrict freedom as much as possible.

elikal said:

Welcome to Nazi-censor-land aka Germany, where always the government knew what people should do. Maybe you Americans can invade us pls once more

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first time saw German wrote something like that

don't worry bro, soon Russians invade us all

Hedek said:

If the vast majority of the German population felt the violent games or porn markets are too controlled (...)

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porn market too controlled in Germany oh man....

3df3 said:

porn market too controlled in Germany oh man....

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I think you may have missed the "if" in that sentence. And I was actually referring to elikal's own experience with the German legislation. As a matter of fact I have no idea how restricted it is in Germany and it changes nothing to my argumentation. At worst it was a badly chosen example that you can replace with anything else that's too restricted in Germany.

@elikal: I understand it better now.

I call this the "wilhelminic legacy" with all of this "soldierness" or "soldierdom", so to say (I'm just teying to transfer this word into the English language - it just says in general that during the "Wilhelminisches Reich" - which was before the Nazi time - was a time that was favouring the ideal of a "hardened" soldier over everything else. It was very biased towards conservatism, as far as I see it).

In German, I'd say it is the "wilhelminisches Erbe" from Empror Wilhelm, and the the aspect of the "soldatisches Leben", which means mostly - as I call it - "hardness". Against one solf and against others. No emotions, please, and no whiners.

In my opinion, this "legacy" still lives on, deep buried, maybe.

It makes people think, for example, that sensitive people (I'm referring to the HSPs, in this case), are some sort of ill, hypochondial whiners who need a month of drill in the barracks to get this thing kicked out of them.

That this a thing one cannot change (but get accustomed to), is something people don't see - or don't want to see.

HSPs are usually treated like sick people who "don't know a good kicking", so to say.

I see rather the point in this, and in the "obrigkeitshörigkeit", the weird will of all Germans to do EVERYTHING that their superiors say. That's why the Nazis succeeded for so long, imho.
I think Milgram would've found very good canidates for his experiments here in Germany.