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Default Kingmaker - Definitive Edition Update Is Here!

August 22nd, 2020, 09:53
Agreed. The turn-based mode is great. I tried it towards the end of the game. It made me read all the spell descriptions and actually use them instead of just thrashing through everything. The end seems badly balanced on my playthrough. Too easy even though I pump up the difficulty.
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August 22nd, 2020, 17:08
Originally Posted by largh View Post
Agreed. The turn-based mode is great. I tried it towards the end of the game. It made me read all the spell descriptions and actually use them instead of just thrashing through everything. The end seems badly balanced on my playthrough. Too easy even though I pump up the difficulty.
Yeah, funny enough when you actually use your abilities like they are described it makes a lot of the battles:

A) More fun
B) Easier
C) Interesting
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August 23rd, 2020, 07:11
I *must* play this game through once with proper turn-based gameplay! I've already played through two complete playthroughs with more than a 100+ hours sunk into it, but this makes me want to do it all over again. (And right proper, this time. )
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August 23rd, 2020, 18:03
One day I really must finish this. I really need to, especially now that the turn-based version is implemented.
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August 23rd, 2020, 21:51
Originally Posted by Carnifex View Post
One day I really must finish this. I really need to, especially now that the turn-based version is implemented.
It's so well done…it's like a completely different experience.
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August 23rd, 2020, 21:55
Do they change the encounters in turn-based mode? I much prefer TB for moment to moment gameplay, but I think it can get a bit much if there's as much combat as you get in an RTWP style game.
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August 23rd, 2020, 22:37
Buying this today in spite of the seemingly low metacritic score. What's not to like with the TB added?
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August 23rd, 2020, 22:58
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
Do they change the encounters in turn-based mode? I much prefer TB for moment to moment gameplay, but I think it can get a bit much if there's as much combat as you get in an RTWP style game.
You can toggle it on and off; the game's content is unchanged.
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August 24th, 2020, 01:57
Originally Posted by Arkayne View Post
Buying this today in spite of the seemingly low metacritic score. What's not to like with the TB added?
It's a great game, you won't be disappointed….

On another note, I never even came close to my time limit in the first part….
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August 24th, 2020, 02:18
Since half probably don't read my news thread here you go.

Pathfinder: Kingmaker Update - Turn-based Combat Overview
When I joined the Owlcat Games team early in 2019, it was basically the job of my dreams: making a single-player role-playing game for PC without having to leave Russia? Until recently this could only be a dream! There was just one little drawback – I've always preferred turn-based combat games to all other genres, and Pathfinder: Kingmaker was designed as a game where battles occur in real time with a tactical pause. Oh well, all your dreams can't come true, right?

Wrong. When the issue of porting the game to consoles came up, we realized pretty fast that something had to be done about combat. Micromanaging the party in combat, particularly important at high complexity levels, is extremely difficult when you have a gamepad instead of a mouse and a keyboard. Of course, we could try to improve the artificial intelligence of the player's characters and make it customizable, but this didn't seem a good solution: we'd play AI programming, not Pathfinder.

Then we were lucky to find out that there was a mod that turned our game into a turn-based one, developed by one of our fans – the amazing, talented, and very dedicated Hsinyu Chan. We looked at the mod and agreed it was brilliant: the game transformed right in front of our eyes, and only for the better (if you like to sit and think about every move, that is). This ultimately tipped the scales in favor of officially adding a turn-based mode to our game.

We got the mod author's permission to use her code and began to implement it into the game. But it was only the groundwork. Although the mod was amazing, the author didn't have access to the game source code, so she had been constrained in what she could do. And after all, the requirements for a fan mod and for the official game’s functionality differ a great deal.
RPG Codex Pathfinder Kingmaker Review - RPG Codex
Flawed as it may be, Kingmaker is high enough in quality when it comes to core gameplay and content. My congratulations to Owlcat for making a rough diamond on their first try after many months of patches. While it has too many issues to be an indisputable classic, this is the game Neverwinter Nights 2 should have been, and the one Pillars of Eternity failed to be (even though PoE has better combat pacing even with all its encounters). It's too bad it goes overboard on combat to such a degree that it's the equivalent of two RPGs in one; I never want to play it again even though I'd normally want to try a different build and make different choices. Nevertheless, it's a must-play for any real-time-with-pause party-based fantasy RPG fan.
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August 24th, 2020, 03:02
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Since half you probably don't read my news thread here you go.

Pathfinder: Kingmaker Update - Turn-based Combat OverviewRPG Codex Pathfinder Kingmaker Review - RPG Codex
That means half of us are crazy then. I'll leave which half up to you.

on a side note I bet chein could easily handle combat in RT with a gamepad.

I haven't made a serious run at this game yet but plan to. I'd like to go TB but seems this game routinely takes people 100 hours + to finish. Wouldn't that translate into about 300 hours in TB and 600 hours for me since I usually take at least twice as long as the norm to finish games.

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August 24th, 2020, 03:05
While it has too many issues to be an indisputable classic, this is the game Neverwinter Nights 2 should have been
A comparison to NWN2? Such a strange reference - the game is 14 years old… but but but - they both have castles!

Having played it after it had already been fully-patched and WITH the turn-based mod, I can honestly say I think it's the best top-down party RPG ever made for a PC. Better than Baldur's Gate and IWD 1. Its only flaw was the system of hidden timers - though that element did add a sense of urgency to the game that would be sorely lacking otherwise.

Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
I'd like to go TB but…
To reiterate, you can toggle turn-based on and off. Ie., you can play the game in rtwp and turn on turn-based when you encounter difficulties. Personally, however, I feel it's a disservice to this game to play in rtwp - the rules system is done incredibly well and mimics PnP rules in almost all circumstances. 5ft move, free action, move action… all these become a jumbled, incomprehensible mess w/ rtwp.
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August 24th, 2020, 03:13
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
That means half of us are crazy then. I'll leave which half up to you.
Rather be crazy then normal. Normal is boring.

Anyway I always have more news often not posted on the Front Page. So back on topic interesting that console's and game-pads are the reason for TB. Interesting indeed.

I thought it was the complainer's flooding it's Kickstarter page begging for TB.
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August 24th, 2020, 16:42
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Rather be crazy then normal. Normal is boring.

Anyway I always have more news often not posted on the Front Page. So back on topic interesting that console's and game-pads are the reason for TB. Interesting indeed.

I thought it was the complainer's flooding it's Kickstarter page begging for TB.
TB, the mode I never knew I wanted so bad
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August 24th, 2020, 21:48
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
Having played it after it had already been fully-patched and WITH the turn-based mod, I can honestly say I think it's the best top-down party RPG ever made for a PC. Better than Baldur's Gate and IWD 1.
Don't make me dick around with my priority queue, you bastard!
Too many games, not enough time.

Edit: alright, I'm keen now. Buying the season pass.
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August 26th, 2020, 14:37
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
…I can honestly say I think it's the best top-down party RPG ever made for a PC. Better than Baldur's Gate and IWD 1.
I agree with this statement. The writing, story, setting, dungeons, atmosphere, party interactions are all on par or above BG2. The turn-based mode works fantastic and the possibility to turn it off during easy fights is how these types of games should be made, although some balancing issues still remain.

I feel that this game did not hit its audience fully yet perhaps due to its buggy launch. I wonder when does the media understand that this game is actually better than BG2? Do they need a successful(ly selling) release or an AAA company before they write those BSy articles praising a game to heavens?
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August 26th, 2020, 16:02
Originally Posted by largh View Post
I agree with this statement. The writing, story, setting, dungeons, atmosphere, party interactions are all on par or above BG2. The turn-based mode works fantastic and the possibility to turn it off during easy fights is how these types of games should be made, although some balancing issues still remain.



I feel that this game did not hit its audience fully yet perhaps due to its buggy launch. I wonder when does the media understand that this game is actually better than BG2? Do they need a successful(ly selling) release or an AAA company before they write those BSy articles praising a game to heavens?
Well, I disagree. It is a good game, but not great in my opinion.

Spoiler – possible story spoilers


This might sound very negative, but it's not. It was a good story, but predictable.

The writing was good, but lots of spelling mistakes and some grammar mistakes were still there half a year ago, which, while not horrible, still made some parts less enjoyable. Mixing up they're and their for example, or writing the boys' instead of the boy's. These are examples of small mistakes which mar the product slightly.

The town building and kingdom management was very underwhelming. The time part didn't bother me much once I understood how it all worked, but it was annoying to run/teleport back and forth just because of it. The concepts are badly explained and there are few reasons apart from advancing the story of building one building over another or doing one project over another. The connection between the managent part and the adventuring was very limited. If I replay the game I will set kingdom management to automatic.

The party NPCs were pretty well done, but formulaic and not very deep. Aggressive barbarian with good intentions, silly goblin rogue, sad/vengeful ranger, stoic fighter. The one character I found surprisingly entertaining was the sullen dwarf with "everything is gonna end, so what's the point?" Still formulaic (sullen dwarf), but I enjoyed his quips and the party interactions with him. The evil/good twins I found surprising and something new.

I can hardly remember any of the names of the companions, which says quite a lot about a game I spent about 150 hours on. Or maybe that I'm getting old…

I did enjoy the resting mechanic, especially in the beginning, and found it very well done and the party interactions good. It was a good way to understand the characters a bit more. I think for example darkest dungeon has a better resting mechanic in that it feels very much a part of managing an expedition, but pathfinder's way was a very good way to let non combat skills shine and characters interact. In general I think this game made very good use of non combat skills. They all felt useful and important. Here they outclass BG1 and 2.

The user interface is a mixed bag. The kingdom management wasn't very good. The core gameplay ui was a lot better. The resting ui was passable. The spell ui was confusing regarding metaspells. The level up screen felt archaic and understanding the way to get a specific feat could involve looking through feat after feat to understand the requirements and path to take when leveling up. I often had to jump back and forth between screens. In conclusion it is clunky.

All that said I still really enjoyed the experience and would recommend it to anyone who enjoys party based rpgs. Not a classic to me, though.
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August 26th, 2020, 16:43
I'd have to agree with SveNitoR Kingmaker is a good game, but yeah I don't see it as a classic not sorry to say that either. It's more of a rough flawed gem with many + and -.

Still gotta give credit to OwlCat though for it being their first game.

Anyway I look forward to whatever they release after Wrath of the Righteous is finally completed. From the early info available right now it sounds like a TB ScFi setting.

Link - https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45617
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August 26th, 2020, 17:36
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
I'd have to agree with SveNitoR Kingmaker is a good game, but yeah I don't see it as a classic not sorry to say that either. It's more of a rough flawed gem with many + and -.

Still gotta give credit to OwlCat though for it being their first game.

Anyway I look forward to whatever they release after Wrath of the Righteous is finally completed. From the early info available right now it sounds like a TB ScFi setting.

Link - https://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45617
I agreed with that before the turn based mode….now with turn based I can't stop playing…..it pushed it over the good game to a great game for me.
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August 26th, 2020, 17:42
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Good for you my good man but it's called different tastes and opinions.

Example put ten people in a room ask one question you'll get ten different opinions.

Anyway glad your enjoying TB you already said that multiple times already.
OK? Never took away your opinion….I was validating it actually….just stated what changed mine after.
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