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May 14th, 2019, 12:47
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
name a better fantasy series
Xena Warrior Princess.
Cringy? Of course, but it wanted to be.

Any other? Sure. Sadly, except me, probably noone else here gave a shot to Rebel: Thief Who Stole The People. It took all known historical facts in the story, but added fantasy in so there.

And then there are Penny Dreadful, Galavant and DC Legends of Tomorrow, if not better I dare to say on par with GoT story qualitywise, not mainstream though due to lack of hype.

Finally CW's The 100. No it's not sci fi. It's fantasy, it's silly, it's retarded, but it's total fun.
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May 14th, 2019, 13:11
Well, IMO the vast majority of swords and sorcery is shite, so in that context GoT looks very good. But I think "compares well to shite" is pretty faint praise.

I actually think GoT is excellent in many respects, but it's made some missteps that have knocked it down a grade, for me. The internet, as usual, is wildly polarized, and I don't think it's as great or as terrible some would have it. It's certainly worth a watch.
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May 14th, 2019, 14:02
This subgenre of fantasy (dark fantasy) is very rare to see adapted into movies or TV.. So it's not like we have that much, if anything, to compare it to.. Comparing it to Xena or Harry Potter or whatever would be very strange since it's not really the same genre at all. It's like saying "oh you like the Alien movie, then you probably like The Orville since it's also sci-fi"…
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May 14th, 2019, 14:26
Well, if both are subgenres of the fantasy genre, then, by definition, the are in the same genre. I don't think it's particularly strange to compare things within an overall genre, while noting their distinguishing features. One can always break things down into more granular subdivisions, but that doesn't mean it's nonsensical to make comparisons.
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May 14th, 2019, 15:10
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
Well, if both are subgenres of the fantasy genre, then, by definition, the are in the same genre.
Uh, what? No. Xena and GoT would be at the opposite ends, same as Alien and Orville would be on totally opposite ends in the Sci-fi genre. That's why subgenres exists because it gets so different that it can get strange to compare it.

I don't think it's particularly strange to compare things within an overall genre, while noting their distinguishing features. One can always break things down into more granular subdivisions, but that doesn't mean it's nonsensical to make comparisons.
There are plenty of genres in cinema, games and music where i only like specific subgenres of it, which i think is rather common. Don't tell me everyone who likes "rock" or "synth" also are assumed to enjoy all subgenres of it, it's very rarely the case. You won't find people comparing a rock album to a hardrock album, or a goa trance record to a synth pop album.
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May 14th, 2019, 15:15
It was a great series that simply lost it's way after the fourth iteration. The past two series to me have seemed like the folks in charge were just running down a checklist for plot advances, rather than telling a coherent tale. Sure, there may not be many other fantasy shows on television to watch, but you can pick up a book and immerse yourself in far superior worlds within a minute. I'll even give you two suggestions: Saxon Tales by Cornwell, and the First Law series by Ambercrombie.

Some of the decisions the past two iterations are just beyond cringe-worthy, or even understanding. It's like the folks writing this garbage were waiting on a lift to arrive, and the moment it did so they threw the pages aside and made a run for it.
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May 14th, 2019, 15:50
Originally Posted by vurt View Post
Uh, what? No. Xena and GoT would be at the opposite ends, same as Alien and Orville would be on totally opposite ends in the Sci-fi genre. That's why subgenres exists because it gets so different that it can get strange to compare it.
I don't think you understand how classification works. If you have two examples that you consider in different sub-genres of the fantasy genre, then they are both in the same genre, but in different subgenres. The reason that subcategories exist is not because it can "get strange" to compare things in the parent category, but because it is sometimes useful to subdivide down to a more granular level. But not always - if you take it too far, everything exists in a category of one.

I you want to compare things within what you consider the same subgenre, great. But there's nothing "strange" about making comparisons within the broader genre.
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May 14th, 2019, 16:09
@vurt please browse through time loop movies (time loop as a genre) and you'll notice two things, there aren't many of these and not a single one is similar to another, some tend to be diametrally opposite to each other. Yes I promised a thread about these a few days back… Will make it, dunno when, need some willpower.

Anyway, same is with fantasy. Each entry (hopefully) is different. Genre never means cloning.
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May 14th, 2019, 16:44
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
I don't think you understand how classification works. If you have two examples that you consider in different sub-genres of the fantasy genre, then they are both in the same genre, but in different subgenres. The reason that subcategories exist is not because it can "get strange" to compare things in the parent category, but because it is sometimes useful to subdivide down to a more granular level. But not always - if you take it too far, everything exists in a category of one.

I you want to compare things within what you consider the same subgenre, great. But there's nothing "strange" about making comparisons within the broader genre.
Of course they are in the same genre, never said they weren't, like i said they are on such opposite ends in that genre that it very naturally forms subgenres. It's like that for games and music too. Often it is not too interesting to compare two very different subgenres of e.g strategy or widely different subgenres of rock.. It all has to do with how close or not a particular subgenre is to the other, punkrock and hardrock would be strange to compare etc etc… i know many people who enjoys RTS but not other forms of strategy, and vice versa.
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May 14th, 2019, 17:15
Fact is, season 1-3 of Game of Thrones was favorably compared to the best of TV in any genre: The Sopranos, Deadwood, etc.

So saying it's the now best in its own tiny subgenre (what's the second best dark fantasy drama on TV?) is really an admission of how much less ambitious it's become.
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May 14th, 2019, 17:19
A few days ago, I would have said just watch the first four series and skip the rest. Now I'd suggest simply avoiding the television show and stick with the novels, you'll thank me later. What they've done in the past three series has totally destroyed the awesome set-up that the earlier years established, so do yourself a huge favour and just avoid the entire mess.

I do wonder now if the supposed prequel series will focus more on the north, and all that happened there in earlier ages. Since that all just got pissed with this most recent series, it would be a shame to never get more information on that area.
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May 14th, 2019, 17:22
Originally Posted by Hexprone View Post
Fact is, season 1-3 of Game of Thrones was favorably compared to the best of TV in any genre: The Sopranos, Deadwood, etc.

So saying it's the now best in its own tiny subgenre (what's the second best dark fantasy drama on TV?) is really an admission of how much less ambitious it's become.
Yes what would we compare it to.. Since there's really nothing else it can be used as a reference, and i'm sure it will be used as one. When for example Witcher comes out many will think it's natural to compare it to GoT, more than e.g Xena.

It kind of gets a 10/10 automagically since nothing else exists to compare it to unless you start making rather.. odd comparisons, to other (quite different) subgenres in fantasy, to TV series as a whole perhaps - which can be fair or not at all, it would depend on a number of factors.
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May 14th, 2019, 17:26
It gets a negative score now though, since the past few series have totally either ignored or destroyed much of the set-up from prior series. I again will make a semi-comparison to Lost: if you know the ending is terrible, why on earth would you ever re-watch the show?
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May 14th, 2019, 17:30
Yeah if the show is used as a reference to itself then i would agree.
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May 14th, 2019, 17:30
Amazing how GOT has deteriorated since it deviated from the books, but Walking Dead is loved by many when it decided to ditch the comic story. Even when the comic is better.
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May 14th, 2019, 18:46
I thought this guy had a pretty good in-depth explanation for why the latter seasons of GoT felt so different compared with the first four.

https://cheezburger.com/8363269/man-…thout-spoilers
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May 14th, 2019, 19:16
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Amazing how GOT has deteriorated since it deviated from the books, but Walking Dead is loved by many when it decided to ditch the comic story. Even when the comic is better.
The Walking Dead was never an exact copy of the comic to begin with. It also never ditched it either. That show still more or less follows the events of the comic but with various deviations like it always has.

Unlike GoT though, viewership for TWD has fallen off drastically. It only has around 50% of the viewers it had 3 seasons ago.
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May 14th, 2019, 19:28
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Xena Warrior Princess.
Cringy? Of course, but it wanted to be.

Any other? Sure. Sadly, except me, probably noone else here gave a shot to Rebel: Thief Who Stole The People. It took all known historical facts in the story, but added fantasy in so there.

And then there are Penny Dreadful, Galavant and DC Legends of Tomorrow, if not better I dare to say on par with GoT story qualitywise, not mainstream though due to lack of hype.

Finally CW's The 100. No it's not sci fi. It's fantasy, it's silly, it's retarded, but it's total fun.
We were talking about current fantasy shows not all-time. Although I think one could easily make the argument that GoT is one of the best all-time.

You have interesting taste though.
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May 14th, 2019, 19:56
I'll be glad once The Walking Dead is finished as I always hated the changes. I recommend reading the comic it's further along, and the character's are different.

The show changed crucial scenes and characters to the point it's an alternate version.
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May 14th, 2019, 20:05
I thought this past season of TWD had a few decent episodes, but in general the show has been shite for quite a while. I agree they need to stick a fork in it.

It's a shame because it really was a great show at one time.
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