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Default Why i love Gothic 3 and hate Oblivion

November 18th, 2006, 18:32
ToddMc, the storyline of Oblivion, at the part where you must destroy the 8 gates, everything during that quest is almost exactly the same. The only differences are that the quest-givers have other names, and that they wear other colors. The parts inside oblivion, are practically the same, except for a few minor changes inside Oblivion.

In G2, however, each dragon had his own place/minions, and required another way to reach. The fire dragon was holed up in a mountain, the stone dragon in his fortress guarded by harpies. The environments were different. And then there is the thing that the 4 dragons were incluced in only 1 quest, and that means that even if it was rather the same, it didn't matter that much. In oblivion, you get 8 different quests, who are all the same and require the same… tactics?
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November 22nd, 2006, 03:57
Agreed, but i enjoyed to play both Oblivion and Morrowind as much as i did with Gothic series, sure them all had some disapointments, but nothing so bad that i would have been pissed off about them. All we need is more games like these
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November 22nd, 2006, 04:30
I agree, more games like G3 would be great!!
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November 22nd, 2006, 04:31
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
I agree, more games like G3 would be great!!
Just more polished, please
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November 23rd, 2006, 16:16
I have played through every quest in Oblivion, Gothic 3 and NWN2. It have been a good rpg year. I will probably check out the new Oblivion expansion Knights of the Nine.

I personally prefer G3 to both Oblivion and NWN2, but all three gave me a good time.
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November 24th, 2006, 03:50
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
I agree, more games like G3 would be great!!
More games like G1 or G2 would be even better. Personally I don't consider G3 to be a very good representative of the series.
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Exclamation The Elder Scrolls and the Gothic Series

December 4th, 2006, 19:03
Hi @ all in this Forum.
First of all I want to say, that I really love both Series TES and Gothic.

When Oblivion was released most of the People said "Best RPG at the moment" and asked "Can Gothic 3 beat Oblivion?"
I wondered WHY anyone could think about comparing this 2RPG Series.
TES always had really BIIIG Worlds and you were always free to do WHATEVER you like.
Kill the whole world? No problem! (in Oblivion you weren't able to kill Mainq-chars - in Morrowind you were able to do that…)
Be "the one" and rescue the world? No problem!
You want to be in the mage's guild but also in the warriors? No problem! Join all guilds!
Do not care about the "Mainquest" and only explore the world? No problem!
In addition the "leveling-system" was, like you mentioned "level it by using".
With Oblivion they made some very good changes from Morrowind.
For example every dialogue was spoken - in Morrowind sometimes you read up to one hour only a conversation between you and a character. And the complete world looked better than in Morrowind -> the desert in the north of Morrowind with the 7/24 Sandstorm….1h running through it and you think about suicide..
Choose your charakter - they all have different attributes and class-abilities…and animal-chars had problems in the world with racism…nice idea
-> The mainquests are only one storyline…not the best, not the worst…only qs…and when you finished them (in oblivion) the game was not over…it had NO end!

Gothic Series were focused on large (not BIIIIIG) worlds, but all "hand-made" the world looks more realistic and you had many cool details.
You always had to choose between factions (g1 = new, old and swamp camp; g2 = rebels, mages, paladins; g3 rebels, orks, slavehunters) - take care what you are doing for/against the factions.
G1 + 2 had "act"s and they followed a Mainstoryline. Within the acts you could do whatever you want, but you MUST finish the mainquest to get further and to the end of the game.
Leveling through killing enemies and getting exp…and "buying" a better character with it.

In my oppinion you can't compare TES with G1 +2 (and NotR). Thats why I was wondering about all the people who wanted/hoped that Gothic 3 is "better" than Oblivion.

Now that I played G3 i must say…G3 is a very, very good game, but it is more a Golivion or Obthic3 (thats why i took this name…)
Piranha Bytes WANTED at first priority (maybe because of the media - I don't know) to create a >better< game than Oblivion and only in second priority to make the new Gothic - a Gothic 3.

Why I am saying this?
The world of Gothic is BIIIIG very big, its nice, but with this comes a problem which Gothic never had before and people criticised at TES….all the dungeons and most of the houses were looking the same….in gothic3 you can see this too….i personally hated all the buildings in nordmar…they looked all like clones.
And many dungeons have the same structure…
In the former Gothics every person in the world was somehow connected and had a story (ok, ok not the patrols in towns and camps…) but now with the "liberation" of towns….after that you have so much connetion to the new members of a town like to a person you never knew it was born….the liberation is a nice idea but lacks a little bit after liberating :/
And the biggest problem in Gothic3 is that you are "free to do whatever you want"….the Mainstory…hmm what was that?!…hmmm think one of the questseries in this game which leads to the end….video? Hmm no they had no time….what a pitty…the mainstory was always the best of the game…



Originally Posted by Gokyabgu View Post
As a Gothic fan i really love Gothic 3 and hate Oblivion. I think of it why? Here is the answers:
If you hate it, don't play it…


Originally Posted by Gokyabgu View Post
1) Like traditional RPG games, monsters in Gothic 3 have their own level and they do not level with you (Unlike Oblivion where monsters level are determined according to your level). So, you can not go wherever you want with Level 1 character. This gives the player the urge to develop his character to see new locations and solve new quests.
There you talked about the most critical point in Oblivion, the new monsterlveveling and determining of monsters is a very good option that the player can go wherever he want and do whatever he likes. Not everyone likes it, but hey that's life…
But with this system Bethesda made some mistakes:
1) Friendly NPCs have a static lvl….critical if you want to do a helping q at lvl 30+…the NPCs die with 1 or 2 hits -.-
2) The balancing problem…if you "poverlevel" only attributes which won't help you kill enemies (acrobatics, alchemy, smithing) the game will be hard, because enemies are stronger and stronger, but you still can't fight - on the other side…if you only level attributes for fighting the game is "too easy".
3) It is not very realistic to see only goblins and wolves at the beginning of the game and later on as a real hero only see deadra princes, xivilai and ancestor ghosts at the same locations


Originally Posted by Gokyabgu View Post
2) Monsters do not spawn in Gothic 3. Cleaning areas from monsters gives the player strong feeling of progress.
Another point that some poeple like and other don't like….i personally don't think that it is realistic that you kill everything in an area and 30days later there is still everything dead - but the way Oblivion chose is not better too…you can kill and kill and kill…you never see less mobs.
->There I would prefer something like in Sacred…if you "pacify" an area, that less mobs spawn..or that it takes longer. Or like in Sacred 2: on streets and ways enemies won't respawn, but in deep forests and in the wilderness.


Originally Posted by Gokyabgu View Post
3) As a personal taste, i always prefer counting my XP point to a skill base system.
Like you said "personal". For me…I don't care if I get xp and "buy" my character or if I level him through using things….both are nice ideas and have their (dis-)advantages.


Originally Posted by Gokyabgu View Post
4) Finally, Gothic series' biggest strength is that they can give the player to advance in society and you feel your stature in society in every aspect of the game; something Oblivion can not achieve I'm afraid.

Yes there you are right, thats one of the biggest strengths of Gothic series and is very well done in G3 too - there Oblivion is not that good as Gothic is.


But another fact where you can see that the guys at P.Byte put themselves under pressure….the huge amount of bugs in the release version of Gothic and that still (with patch 1.09) a Perk, some People and Master-Trainers are missing and the questlog is a complete horror…the same s*** like the diary in Morrowind :/
I don't know if we have to blame P.Byte and their beta-testers or if we have to blame Jowood who wanted to release the game. But in fact Oblivion was well playable when it was released


I don't want to blame anyone and hope I haven't forgotten anything I wanted to say

For people who read my whole post…thanks for having the patience…to all others: sorry that it is that long….was not intended


Greetings


PS: And the best quest i know so far is the painting-q in Oblivion =D


Edit: Ah what I really really miss in G3 are the nice possibilities for answering…now you have most of the time only one or the rebel, the orc or the slavehunter - answer….not the yes, the no and the "shut up" ,)
Last edited by Obthic3; December 4th, 2006 at 20:04.
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December 5th, 2006, 03:08
Welcome to the The Watch forums. Your points are well made and sound; I hope to see you posting a lot more here!! I agree, the 2 games are different, with different goals and really shouldn't be compared. I like different things in each and dislike others, but both were worth the money I spent on them!!
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December 5th, 2006, 20:10
Although I personally think Gothic 3 is a bit better then Oblivion, there's at least one thing Oblivion did better. The menu to controll all your inventory (I mean maps, character info, the whole thing) was way better in Oblivion. I mostly dislike the fact that you don't have the smaller maps from towns. In Gothic 1 and 2, you were still able to buy those things if you wanted them.
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December 5th, 2006, 22:58
My biggest issue with Oblivion is how the world itself is made in glass and so easily breaks.

- "The demons are attacking, you have to save us NOW!!! .. or do whatever you want for as long as you want". And my roleplaying world completely shatters.
- Average bandits being powerful enough to easily overwhelm any city because they wear complete sets of demonic armor. And yet again, my roleplaying world shatters.
- Never any actual consequences in the world. A world without consequences is the fantasy world of a child - I find it hard to roleplay where nothing ever has an effect.

The Gothic games all have their problems, but at the very least the world has a high roleplay value for me, as it is constructed in a solid way where the illusion won't shatter as easily as that of Oblivion.
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December 5th, 2006, 23:55
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
My biggest issue with Oblivion is how the world itself is made in glass and so easily breaks.

- "The demons are attacking, you have to save us NOW!!! .. or do whatever you want for as long as you want". And my roleplaying world completely shatters.
Gothic 2 had a similar moment: at one time you go to the valley of mines and singlehandedly wipe out the orc army besieging a force of elite paladins, and the paladins do nothing; I guess they're enjoying the show, placing bets, etc.

I love both games, that's how big my catholic heart is, but I agree that the Gothics offer more in terms of roleplaying.
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December 6th, 2006, 00:38
Yes, Gothic definetly has certain such points as well, but in Oblivion they just keep on coming - whenever I get over one point and the roleplaying illusion is building up again, I come across some new point where it all crumbles back down.
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December 11th, 2006, 17:04
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Corrupted Paladin's can do that - the game doesn't do any sort of 'fallen' designation.
Maybe that's kind of an misunderstanding ? Thousands of gamers used to the D&D ruleset expecting a Paladin to become "fallen" and then wondering why there are no consequences ?
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December 11th, 2006, 17:27
Originally Posted by Obthic3 View Post
Piranha Bytes WANTED at first priority (maybe because of the media - I don't know) to create a >better< game than Oblivion and only in second priority to make the new Gothic - a Gothic 3.
Sounds very reasonable ! It puts down in words what I had intuitively felt all of the time ! Respect !
(Not saying this statement is true or false - it just *feels* true for me, and I trust my intuition *very much* !)



2) The balancing problem…if you "poverlevel" only attributes which won't help you kill enemies (acrobatics, alchemy, smithing) the game will be hard, because enemies are stronger and stronger, but you still can't fight - on the other side…if you only level attributes for fighting the game is "too easy".
This is currently being discussed in a thread at Larian about the world and how fighting should take place.

I'd like to quote this there.

But another fact where you can see that the guys at P.Byte put themselves under pressure….the huge amount of bugs in the release version of Gothic and that still (with patch 1.09) a Perk, some People and Master-Trainers are missing and the questlog is a complete horror…the same s*** like the diary in Morrowind :/
I don't know if we have to blame P.Byte and their beta-testers or if we have to blame Jowood who wanted to release the game. But in fact Oblivion was well playable when it was released
And of course this puts a very bad light onto German developers. "They are only able to release buggy games" … Someone actually said to me that many foreign publishers tend to believe so (that's how I have it in my memory).

The thing seems to be that Pyranha Bytes experimented too much and began too late with the assemblage of everything (worst example : The reasons why they didn't put women into the game. What I read as statements from them just sounds incredible to me).
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June 2nd, 2009, 23:43
Originally Posted by Gokyabgu View Post
2) Monsters do not spawn in Gothic 3. Cleaning areas from monsters gives the player strong feeling of progress.
.
I agree with your whole post. Sadly the respawn thing was ruined with the 1.7 community patch. The game feels like Oblivion now with the respawns. I want to play Gothic, not Oblivion.
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August 26th, 2010, 16:17
I played Morrowind to the end, loved every minute, and was sad to run out of things to do. I tried playing Oblivion to the end … twice … and lost interest half way both times. There is just something missing … like they sacrificed some essential quality of the game just to improve graphics. I didn't even care enough about the main quest to pursue it past the first few stages.

Right now I'm in the middle of Gothic II NoTR and loving it, and have G3 to hop into when I'm done. I hope I don't suffer the same disappointment.
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August 26th, 2010, 16:43
Originally Posted by Daeanor View Post
Right now I'm in the middle of Gothic II NoTR and loving it, and have G3 to hop into when I'm done. I hope I don't suffer the same disappointment.
With the Community Patch, I say you have one hell of a game in front of you.

G3 is humongous. Oblivion have seven cities that offers around 5 quests each. Gothic 3 have around 30, each with the same number of quests and each city is usually in some kind of conflict that need to be resolved in order to gain recognition with a certain faction. Improving reputation with a faction is the only way to get into a few areas later on. This is an interesting design, the core design is thus one faction conflict per city, an overarching faction system that allows for access, and also a quest involving finding a couple of chalices to get you going on your exploration.

Unfortunate, I thought that there wasn't as many secret places to be found in G3. G1 and G2 had plenty of unique peculiar places, in G3 you can definitely find a lot of hidden loot if you go around, but I lost interest in searching since eventually I had so much loot that there wasn't anything new that was interesting to me.
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August 26th, 2010, 17:40
Gothic 3 was nice looking and big, but a buggy mess. There was probably a good game beneath the horrible bugs and problems, but it just wasn't fun to play after a while. I really don't understand the love for it.

Oblivion has plenty of problems but was at least smoothly playable.
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August 26th, 2010, 19:39
Originally Posted by Ovenall View Post
Gothic 3 was nice looking and big, but a buggy mess. There was probably a good game beneath the horrible bugs and problems, but it just wasn't fun to play after a while. I really don't understand the love for it.

Oblivion has plenty of problems but was at least smoothly playable.
It sounds like you haven't tried the 1.7 patch; most of the bugs were fixed and alternate AI and balancing were added as well. It's a very good game now.

As far as G3 vs Oblivion, why does it seem to be crime to like both? I've played both several times and enjoyed each in its own way.
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August 26th, 2010, 20:44
Gothic 3 is a lot of fun once it's been patched, and it has the most beautiful landscapes I've ever seen in an RPG.

Still, it's my least favorite of the Gothic games, and I would also put Risen slightly ahead of it. Not that G3 isn't great, it's just that those games are even better imo.
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