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Default ELEX 2 - Is Coming @ C4G

June 17th, 2021, 23:23
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
Sorry, that's just dishonest. That's not all that's going on in this thread, and you're smart enough to know that. You're also disingenous enough to pretend not to know it.

There's the arguments in bad faith:

"But, at least for me, this game doesn't feel dated, I see no bad animations, no poor voice acting or a wonky combat balance."
I see you've chosen to join the troll train and become full of shit.

How is what you quoted there in bad faith? He/she clearly states "at least for me", meaning that they're just giving their opinion. Are you actually implying that he/she isn't allowed to think those things are good enough for them?

That's in stark contrast to stating an opinion as if it's fact like others are doing here, including you.

Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
That's like a sports fan, angry at the officiating in a game, claiming that their team never commits a legitimate foul. It's okay to love something dearly and still see and acknowledge when it just may not be flawless. When you don't, your arguments are dishonest gaslighting.
You mean dishonest gaslighting like what you're doing right now? Please point to one person here that said, or even implied, that PB's games are "flawless".
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June 17th, 2021, 23:33
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
Others already have pointed that out, but I want to make it state it more clearly.
All of these 5 features are difficult to measure and objectify. They're heavily subjective.
I don't think it is subjective, I believe those are all objective facts when compared to other games released in the same time frame. Hence the 6.7/10 score that Elex received from all the combined media, which while not fully objective (nothing ever is), they do not troll with 0 or 10 scores in their reviews as users do, and in general try to make a valid assessment of the game.

Also, I'm seeing some red flags in this thread from some people, so I'm politely giving them the win and halting interaction with them, for now.

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June 17th, 2021, 23:40
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
that PB's games are "flawless".
at least they do the rpg parts right even if combat and some other aspects of game need polish. i would take mixed setting - lore of elex and clucky combat any day of the week compared some of the crap in some so called great rpgs nowadays

and i have played all PB games and i have yet to make a review about one i have no clue why people make such a big deal of reviews. You can watch gameplay maybe even try it and make up your own mind..nothing but fan boys doing thier thing and a few salty people making negative reviews. Infact i think i never really posted a review in all my life… if you ask me we should go back to the days of demos anyway… Prfect example is right now on steam.. You play it if you like it you buy it simple and effective no bullshit…
Last edited by Dolby; June 17th, 2021 at 23:52.
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June 18th, 2021, 00:10
This thread reminds me of when someone defends Skyrim, FO4, or the newer Dragon age games here only now on the other side as one of the sacred developers is being questioned. People are clearly protective and defensive towards PB. Can see that a mile away as someone with out any preference towards PB as a developer one way or the other. It was one of the first things I noticed in reading through the 6 pages.

Of course there is far more support here for the old-school gaming because many of those who come here prefer it. So really shouldn't come as a surprise. See the same kind of posts when it comes to turn-based games and games that stick to the P&P rule books .. or don't.

I enjoyed ELEX but didn't finish it, got about 80% through it. Was fun but wasn't outstanding. Fun enough I got my money's worth and has my interest for the second, but I am not expecting anything overly impressive with the second based on the first. Not every game has to be ultra-awesome to be enjoyable though.
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June 18th, 2021, 00:50
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
This thread reminds me of when someone defends Skyrim, FO4, or the newer Dragon age games here only now on the other side as one of the sacred developers is being questioned.
I can agree with that. At least you're honest enough to point out that it's the same among certain developers. Some people act like everyone here loves PB but that Bioware and Bethesda are universally shit upon which is obviously not true.
Last edited by JDR13; June 18th, 2021 at 01:01. Reason: Grammar
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June 18th, 2021, 01:50
Well we all have our favorites. I think people know how much I like those games I mentioned and I know I get very defensive at times about them - as I enjoy them a lot and there are some here who like to bash them. It doesn't change my love of those games but at the same time it is disheartening when you enjoy a game and someone always wants to insult it. There are certain people who seem to sniff out any thread on Beth games simply to make a comment about how horrible they are.

Anyhow as someone who truly has no feeling one way or the other about PB or their games I did sense some protectiveness towards them in the thread. Granted I do the same thing towards Skyrim and some of my other favorite games.

All that being said I very sincerely hope ELEX 2 is a good game … guess we shall see.
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June 18th, 2021, 01:56
I need to try the original again first. I came off Dark Souls with its brilliant combat and couldn’t adjust to PB’s goofy timed power bar combo thingy. I think it sucked and I just tried to avoid it by over reliance on the jet pack. Then I noticed the obnoxious respawns and got even more annoyed. Just typing this I remember why I hated Elex. I’m going to pass on this
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June 18th, 2021, 02:03
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
I need to try the original again first. I came off Dark Souls with its brilliant combat and couldn’t adjust to PB’s goofy timed power bar combo thingy. I think it sucked and I just tried to avoid it by over reliance on the jet pack. Then I noticed the obnoxious respawns and got even more annoyed. Just typing this I remember why I hated Elex. I’m going to pass on this


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June 18th, 2021, 02:05
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
I need to try the original again first. I came off Dark Souls with its brilliant combat and couldn’t adjust to PB’s goofy timed power bar combo thingy. I think it sucked and I just tried to avoid it by over reliance on the jet pack. Then I noticed the obnoxious respawns and got even more annoyed. Just typing this I remember why I hated Elex. I’m going to pass on this
see it's all subjective i couldn't even get pass the first room to the first fight that's how horrible controlls and combat were in dark souls worst pc port i have ever seen…never bothered with other games after that..
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June 18th, 2021, 02:13
The controls in Dark Souls are fine. The original PC port of the first game was just kind of messed up.

Though I do think it's odd to see someone praise Dark Souls and then complain about respawns in another game.
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June 18th, 2021, 02:39
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
The controls in Dark Souls are fine. The original PC port of the first game was just kind of messed up.

Though I do think it's odd to see someone praise Dark Souls and then complain about respawns in another game.
Dark souls is in my top ten but I agree of all the directions I saw his post going I didn’t see respawns coming.
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June 18th, 2021, 02:41
Respawns are essential in Dark Souls as you surely know. But that’s an aside and I probably shouldn’t have mentioned it there. The core combat mechanism is really the issue. It’s been off the rails since Risen 1 in my opinion. But hey just “my opinion”
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June 18th, 2021, 02:52
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
Respawns are essential in Dark Souls as you surely know. But that’s an aside and I probably shouldn’t have mentioned it there. The core combat mechanism is really the issue. It’s been off the rails since Risen 1 in my opinion. But hey just “my opinion”
Yeah, I was ok with Elex combat but it does pale in comparison to DS. I could see it being jarring and quite an adjustment if played back to back.
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June 18th, 2021, 02:54
It’s weird because I thought Risen 1 was very solid at least for sword and shield. They couldn’t leave well enough alone since then
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June 18th, 2021, 07:31
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
It's weird because I thought Risen 1 was very solid at least for sword and shield. They couldn't leave well enough alone since then
I'm not really sure what they were thinking with Risen 2 & 3 when it came to combat. Risen 2 was the worst, but R3 was only marginally better. I still enjoyed them, but the combat was definitely a step down from Risen.

I like the combat in Elex well enough. It can't compare to games that are built around it like DS, but that's never been the focus of PB's games.
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June 18th, 2021, 09:21
While I was reading through the thread Elex finished downloading. Will give it another try, PB games usually require some initial investment before you are allowed to see whats hidden under the surface. This avid discussion made me wander if I really did that during my first attempt to get in the game (although I played significantly longer then 1 hour). Just arrived to Goliet, hmmm, who to join, that is a question …
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June 18th, 2021, 09:26
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
I don't think it is subjective, I believe those are all objective facts when compared to other games released in the same time frame. Hence the 6.7/10 score that Elex received from all the combined media, which while not fully objective (nothing ever is), they do not troll with 0 or 10 scores in their reviews as users do, and in general try to make a valid assessment of the game.
I think you mix up two different things.

The features can both be subjective and the low average score can be valid.

Higher scores given by gamers who subjectively perceived the features being better (or weight them lower) are as valid as lower scores given by gamers who subjectively perceived the features being worse (or weight them higher).
That the first group is smaller than the other (resulting in a lower average score) doesn't make the score given by the these individuals invalid.
So of course for them the game is good. For them the average score is irrelevant.

The comparison @TheMadGamer made with dark chocolate is really good. For the people who like dark chocolate it is totally irrelevant that most people don't like dark chocolate. Asking them "How is it to like bad tasting chocolate?" doesn't make sense, because it just doesn't taste bad (to them).

Also to clarify what I mean with actual objectifiable feature. That's more or less only the features you can somehow measure: performance (like average FPS on a certain hardware), texture resolution, size of the game world, quest density, movement types, gameworld interaction types, loading times, number of dialog lines/words, extent of voice overs, number of classes/races/spells/weapons, game mechanics and ruleset (combat, crafting, level progression), combat system being turn based or real time, number of quests, average playtime, number of (recruitable) companions, party based or single protagonist, fixed protagonist or customizable etc.

So a question "How is it to like a game with a playtime of 200 hours, a fixed protagonist, no recruitable companions, a huge gameworld with low quest density" makes a lot more sense.
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June 18th, 2021, 09:44
That makes sense Morrandir, and I fully agree with it. If you like something, to hell with the reviews, if it feels good to you why should you care what the reviews say?

However, I feel the chocolate analogy is loaded, because dark chocolate has a good rep of being healthier than processed/sweetened chocolate, and also a kind of distinguished product, something for "refined" palates. It's definitely not lower quality than other kinds of chocolate either, just made differently, on purpose.

Elex is neither a refined product, or made on purpose to be a lower quality product compared to others. PB aren't trying to make its walking and fighting animations wonky, the graphics dated compared to other games that release in the same time window, or generally glitchy. They are like this simply because that's the best they can do.

So point in case, if you were asked if you think Elex is a good game, because you can tolerate all those flaws and focus on the aspects of the game you like better, you will say "Hell yes, this is a great game!" and that's true for you, and you are lucky to be able to enjoy it that way. Now if you ask a neutral person that is looking for a new game without bias, they get presented a 6.7 score, which is in fairness the quality of the game.

Maybe there should be a small tag saying "but try it anyway, there is a chance this is actually a 9/10 game for you!". But that goes without saying, and applies to every game, not only to Elex. If you think it might be your kind of thing, don't let a 6.7/10 stop you, try it and see for yourself. But in general, that's how well made the game is compared to others.

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June 18th, 2021, 10:14
But graphics and animations are hardly main attributes by which games quality should be measured. The fact that, in reality, it is often the opposite, doesnt change the point as per my opinion. Obsession with technical fidelity is nothing new, especially in mainstream media.
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June 18th, 2021, 10:23
Originally Posted by Andrew23 View Post
But graphics and animations are hardly main attributes by which games quality should be measured. The fact that, in reality, it is often the opposite, doesnt change the point as per my opinion. Obsession with technical fidelity is nothing new, especially in mainstream media.
Don't get clung in the semantics. I just mentioned graphics and animations as a couple of things that are subpar, but a lot other things are, including the writing, the general "feeling" that the game is not polished, and a hundred little things more that you just feel as you play it. It feels off and wonky in general. If I can tell that from playing one hour certainly you guys who played 40+ won't be too biased to deny it.

It's not a well made game, and it's not even balanced. Some posters here are saying "it's challenging, at least until high levels", when what they actually mean is "the balance is off whack and you can get easily killed at low level by about anything, until you outlevel stuff then you can kill everything easily." You can call that challenging, I call that bad design, based on avoiding encounters until you outlevel them and then beating them trivially. Yet another thing that adds to that 6.7 score.

Again, you can love it, and that's perfectly fine. Still not a great game in general compared to others, which is what a score is, not so much a static score as it is a comparison to its peers.

PS: "Obsession with technical fidelity" is another piece of bull excuse. I'm out of patience for talking to walls of brick in this thread, but if I still had some I could easily look up and bring you more than a few games released in the last few years that have poor graphics and indie budgets reaching scores in the high 8's or 9's.

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