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November 9th, 2021, 10:27
Owlcat Games has released a new patch Pathfinder: Wrath of the Righteous. Please mind the known issues below.

Update 1.1.1i

Hello Crusaders!

We are back from a lockdown and a state holiday with more fixes for your bugs! Good news for our macOS players - we've finally defeated that tent issue that's been causing us all so many problems. We also fixed the issue with crossblooded sorcerers and many more.

We also found out that some people still play the beta version of 1.1 patch - please opt out of it to update your game!

Please read the patch notes, but beware of possible plot spoilers below!

Known issues in this version (we will fix them in the next hot-fix):
  • There's a bug with the platform in the Mage's Tower in chapter 4, and it's not moving as it should;
  • The filter of items doesn't work in the loot interface.
[…]
More information.
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November 9th, 2021, 10:28
The details are below:

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November 9th, 2021, 13:28
Still playing it. 165 hours in and still working my way through first playthrough. I suppose that I sink lots of time in the TB combat. It is not easy and many encounters require change of approach to beat it. Not rinse and repeat experience to me. I suppose many watchers, especially those who prefer RtWP would consider my Pathfinder experience tedious, but I like it this way.

One thing I dont appreciate so much is Crusade Management. It seems more shallow in comparison to Kingdom Management in Kingmaker, which makes it almost needless in my eyes. The army encounters have potential, but its again too shallow to be really fun for me. My guess is that Owlcat tried to make some compromise in attempt to make it less annoying for those who didnt like Kingdom Management in first Pathfinder. That would be fail in my book as trying to please everybody always ends bad.

Anyway, great, great game overall, and GOTY for sure.
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November 9th, 2021, 13:41
Is turned-based combat pretty much fixed? I will be starting Pathfinder soon and will do the bigger fights in TB.
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November 9th, 2021, 13:58
Originally Posted by Andrew23 View Post
One thing I dont appreciate so much is Crusade Management. It seems more shallow in comparison to Kingdom Management in Kingmaker, which makes it almost needless in my eyes. The army encounters have potential, but its again too shallow to be really fun for me. My guess is that Owlcat tried to make some compromise in attempt to make it less annoying for those who didnt like Kingdom Management in first Pathfinder. That would be fail in my book as trying to please everybody always ends bad.
I prefer de Crusade than the kingdom management, maybe because I'm a fan of HoM&M games. But I think that if the game didn't have that management aspect, it would be better. It's busy work for an already big game. I confess that I didn't build anything. Just buy the troops and do the squirmishes, with one single heroe that has all my best and numerous troops. I'm playing on Normal, so maybe that's not possible with higher difficulty settings.

I'm stuck on Act 5, it's been a couple of weeks without touching the game. I think it's time to lower the difficulty to easy and do these 2 long and annoying battles that took my will to keep playing.
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November 9th, 2021, 14:37
Originally Posted by Andrew23 View Post
Still playing it. 165 hours in and still working my way through first playthrough. I suppose that I sink lots of time in the TB combat. It is not easy and many encounters require change of approach to beat it. Not rinse and repeat experience to me. I suppose many watchers, especially those who prefer RtWP would consider my Pathfinder experience tedious, but I like it this way.
Yes, same for me.

One thing I dont appreciate so much is Crusade Management. It seems more shallow in comparison to Kingdom Management in Kingmaker, which makes it almost needless in my eyes. The army encounters have potential, but its again too shallow to be really fun for me. My guess is that Owlcat tried to make some compromise in attempt to make it less annoying for those who didnt like Kingdom Management in first Pathfinder. That would be fail in my book as trying to please everybody always ends bad.
Yes.

Anyway, great, great game overall, and GOTY for sure.
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November 9th, 2021, 14:38
Originally Posted by Hastar View Post
Is turned-based combat pretty much fixed? I will be starting Pathfinder soon and will do the bigger fights in TB.
I'm playing almost only TB and don't have serious issues. However I don't use mounts. Afaik there have been great problems with mounted TB combat and I have no idea if they have been fixed yet.
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November 9th, 2021, 17:06
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
I'm playing almost only TB and don't have serious issues. However I don't use mounts. Afaik there have been great problems with mounted TB combat and I have no idea if they have been fixed yet.
My main char is a mounted cavalier and turn based seems to be mostly working fine now. Much better than what it used to be a couple of patch ago. I still get some bugs, once in a while, but it's more a minor annoyance than game-breaking.
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November 10th, 2021, 01:54
Originally Posted by Andrew23 View Post
One thing I dont appreciate so much is Crusade Management. It seems more shallow in comparison to Kingdom Management in Kingmaker, which makes it almost needless in my eyes. The army encounters have potential, but its again too shallow to be really fun for me. My guess is that Owlcat tried to make some compromise in attempt to make it less annoying for those who didnt like Kingdom Management in first Pathfinder. That would be fail in my book as trying to please everybody always ends bad.

Anyway, great, great game overall, and GOTY for sure.
Interesting - I actually enjoyed crusade management (I certainly liked it much more than kingdom management) but not crusade combats. I think its fair to say tho, general reception of crusade management/combat is quite mixed - not that its terrible but it does stick out like a sore thumb compared to rest of the game which is fantastic.

Definitely GOTY for me as well - in fact, a solid 2nd fav game of all time for me
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November 10th, 2021, 06:28
So 229 hours and I just entered Act 5… Pretty crazy, but the game keeps me coming back. Not only is it GotY but may go down as the best RPG of this type ever made. Yep, I said it. *shrugs*
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November 10th, 2021, 08:08
Originally Posted by ChaosTheory View Post
Not only is it GotY but may go down as the best RPG of this type ever made. Yep, I said it. *shrugs*
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November 10th, 2021, 13:56
Originally Posted by purpleblob1 View Post
Interesting - I actually enjoyed crusade management (I certainly liked it much more than kingdom management) but not crusade combats. I think its fair to say tho, general reception of crusade management/combat is quite mixed - not that its terrible but it does stick out like a sore thumb compared to rest of the game which is fantastic.

Definitely GOTY for me as well - in fact, a solid 2nd fav game of all time for me
I certainly appreciate crusade management from roleplaying point of view. I think it was @wolfgrimdark who mentioned this in other WotR thread and I agree it helps to create this feeling of being commander of crusade.

But from gameplay point of view I didnt notice any significant impact (perhaps it will happen later as I didnt yet leave act 3). Kingdom management in first Pathfinder made me to make decisions by prioritising some tasks and at least several times it led to different outcomes, based on the choices. I know people didnt like how it was hard or impossible to take back such unwanted outcome. But for me, that gave the Kingdom Management purpose, because it had impact on how game story developed. Didnt notice such outcomes in Crusade management. So far, choices are providing some bonuses in crusade battles mostly or providing some equipment, nothing else really.
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November 10th, 2021, 22:38
Originally Posted by Andrew23 View Post
I certainly appreciate crusade management from roleplaying point of view. I think it was @wolfgrimdark who mentioned this in other WotR thread and I agree it helps to create this feeling of being commander of crusade.

But from gameplay point of view I didnt notice any significant impact (perhaps it will happen later as I didnt yet leave act 3). Kingdom management in first Pathfinder made me to make decisions by prioritising some tasks and at least several times it led to different outcomes, based on the choices. I know people didnt like how it was hard or impossible to take back such unwanted outcome. But for me, that gave the Kingdom Management purpose, because it had impact on how game story developed. Didnt notice such outcomes in Crusade management. So far, choices are providing some bonuses in crusade battles mostly or providing some equipment, nothing else really.
IIRC, crusade management doesn't impact the story other than the ending slides but it has huge impact on crusade combat which is also a significant part of the game. I guess we all had different expectations from crusade management/combat
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November 10th, 2021, 22:49
Originally Posted by Andrew23 View Post
But from gameplay point of view I didnt notice any significant impact (perhaps it will happen later as I didnt yet leave act 3). Kingdom management in first Pathfinder made me to make decisions by prioritising some tasks and at least several times it led to different outcomes, based on the choices. I know people didnt like how it was hard or impossible to take back such unwanted outcome. But for me, that gave the Kingdom Management purpose, because it had impact on how game story developed. Didnt notice such outcomes in Crusade management. So far, choices are providing some bonuses in crusade battles mostly or providing some equipment, nothing else really.
I certainly agree that the game would be better without the strategic layer but I feel the one in WOTR has more impact than the one we had in Kingmaker. At least, you usually know the impact of what you decide.
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November 11th, 2021, 11:07
IMO the crusade system is more integrated to the game in WotR than the kingdom management was in Kingmaker.

The crusade directly controls armies that open the path for the party, and the other way round, and they do that on the same map. The theme is the same, the mechanics are quite similar (though badly presented with an unfinished system).

Kingmaker had some projects related to the progression: the research events to boost the stats, and the towns / villages appeared on the party map after being chosen. Then the quest was regularly blocked by the progression of the kingdom management, but that's about it. Characters needed abilities in the KM that were incompatible with their role in the party, modifications made to the towns & villages were not visible by the party, and most of the events & projects of the KM were barely linked to the party's world.

I think they were on their way to show a lot of improvements in that "meta-game" part like in other areas, but not taking the time to do it properly ruined the effort.
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November 11th, 2021, 15:43
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
IMO the crusade system is more integrated to the game in WotR than the kingdom management was in Kingmaker.

The crusade directly controls armies that open the path for the party, and the other way round, and they do that on the same map. The theme is the same, the mechanics are quite similar (though badly presented with an unfinished system).

Kingmaker had some projects related to the progression: the research events to boost the stats, and the towns / villages appeared on the party map after being chosen. Then the quest was regularly blocked by the progression of the kingdom management, but that's about it. Characters needed abilities in the KM that were incompatible with their role in the party, modifications made to the towns & villages were not visible by the party, and most of the events & projects of the KM were barely linked to the party's world.

I think they were on their way to show a lot of improvements in that "meta-game" part like in other areas, but not taking the time to do it properly ruined the effort.
If crusade management was deleted it would have zero influence on party adventure part of the game (with exception of artificial road blocks) and on the story unfolding. There are no story events triggered by the management decisions. At least I didnt notice any, so far.

Kingdom Management was different and some events were connected to decisions made in Kingdom Management. Im not going into discussion how well it was implemented or not, because it was far from perfect, but this basic concept difference is important for me and makes crusader management expendable in my eyes.
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November 11th, 2021, 16:44
Originally Posted by Andrew23 View Post
If crusade management was deleted it would have zero influence on party adventure part of the game (with exception of artificial road blocks) and on the story unfolding. There are no story events triggered by the management decisions. At least I didnt notice any, so far.

Kingdom Management was different and some events were connected to decisions made in Kingdom Management. Im not going into discussion how well it was implemented or not, because it was far from perfect, but this basic concept difference is important for me and makes crusader management expendable in my eyes.
I see what you mean, although the implementation matters to me since that's how I have to play. I'm not talking only about tuning, which is a problem in either case, but how it's designed.

Besides, the management level could be removed from either game without impacting the story and the main quest, not only Wrath of the Righteous. That's why both have an automatic mode.

What I meant by integration is that the link in Kingmaker seems completely artificial.

- Once the player reaches some checkpoint, a project is created to do some lengthy research on what happened, and this may result in a buff but only active if the party is anywhere within the current kingdom's borders. Why not, but it's far-fetched, especially given the advisors' attribute requirements. I prefer the way Wrath of the Righteous gives an item captured from the demons once their army has been defeated.

- The worst in Kingmaker are the events that block the progression of the main quest, often regarding independent matters. Like for ex. the disappearance of a Varnhold family member (announced by a letter) which is programmed n days after the repetitive "An Ancient Curse" event, itself blocked by another event IIC. It's completely random, to the point many players never understood why the related Act and its quest wouldn't start. In Wrath of the Righteous, it's "limited" to the map exploration but at least it makes more sense to me.

I do prefer the idea of Kingmaker's projects and events because they are story-oriented. It's just that with the current design, they feel so disconnected from the exploration and quest experience, with only some rare exceptions (like people bursting into monsters), that it feels like another mini-game.
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November 11th, 2021, 18:04
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
I see what you mean, although the implementation matters to me since that's how I have to play. I'm not talking only about tuning, which is a problem in either case, but how it's designed.

Besides, the management level could be removed from either game without impacting the story and the main quest, not only Wrath of the Righteous. That's why both have an automatic mode.

What I meant by integration is that the link in Kingmaker seems completely artificial.

- Once the player reaches some checkpoint, a project is created to do some lengthy research on what happened, and this may result in a buff but only active if the party is anywhere within the current kingdom's borders. Why not, but it's far-fetched, especially given the advisors' attribute requirements. I prefer the way Wrath of the Righteous gives an item captured from the demons once their army has been defeated.

- The worst in Kingmaker are the events that block the progression of the main quest, often regarding independent matters. Like for ex. the disappearance of a Varnhold family member (announced by a letter) which is programmed n days after the repetitive "An Ancient Curse" event, itself blocked by another event IIC. It's completely random, to the point many players never understood why the related Act and its quest wouldn't start. In Wrath of the Righteous, it's "limited" to the map exploration but at least it makes more sense to me.

I do prefer the idea of Kingmaker's projects and events because they are story-oriented. It's just that with the current design, they feel so disconnected from the exploration and quest experience, with only some rare exceptions (like people bursting into monsters), that it feels like another mini-game.
I doo agree that implementation of Kingdom Management was flawed, but the basic concept was more ambitious and, even with the flaws I kinda liked it and didnt feel all the time as if its there just for atmosphere setting. Which happens to me with Crusade management. On the other side, I value when developer is able to adjust ambitions according to its capacities. Perhaps thats what happened here, which would make it more understandable.
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November 11th, 2021, 18:23
Originally Posted by Andrew23 View Post
I doo agree that implementation of Kingdom Management was flawed, but the basic concept was more ambitious and, even with the flaws I kinda liked it and didnt feel all the time as if its there just for atmosphere setting. Which happens to me with Crusade management. On the other side, I value when developer is able to adjust ambitions according to its capacities. Perhaps thats what happened here, which would make it more understandable.
It was more ambitious, I think the crusade combats was supposed to replace that part, while keeping the cards but reducing their impact. But the result is not really convincing. Well, to be honest it's as much a problem of design than its implementation.

I'm wondering what lessons they'll learn from this, and what they'll come up with next time.

I don't dislike those systems, they're a nice distraction and provide another point of view. But after a while I start to find them annoying sometimes, because of their shortcomings.
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