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January 23rd, 2022, 15:24
I think the sad part is that NFTs will influence the sort of games that will be made - essentially they are microtransaction games, but instead of one off in-game purchases, people will be able to trade their items, with the game making its money from a cut on every transaction. That way, each item goes on generating money for the company every time it's traded.

OK… but if we ignore all that, it's surely going to mean game designs affected to fit that essentially microtransaction model.
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January 23rd, 2022, 18:46
People simply need to take a firm stand here, this is a line that shouldn't be crossed no matter what, and don't do it no matter what. No game, no subject whatsoever is worth tolerating this kind of nonsense, vote with your wallets and the powers that be/corporations will eventually notice.

Stand as one, do not capitulate.
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January 23rd, 2022, 21:11
I've been saying vote with your wallets for the last 10 to 15 years yet Electronic Arts, Ubisoft and Activision Blizzard are still here despite the fact that they totally screw their customers over so I don't think that's going to work.

There's a sucker born every minute and apparently the younger generation of gamers does not seem to worry too much about these shady practices. Oh they will bitch and complain and scream when the company does something that pisses them off but they're right back to get the next game that comes out, buying it and getting screwed again so why should these companies worry about pissing off their customer base if it just keeps coming back for more abuse.
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January 23rd, 2022, 21:28
It's April 1st already?!
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January 23rd, 2022, 22:19
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
I think the sad part is that NFTs will influence the sort of games that will be made - essentially they are microtransaction games, but instead of one off in-game purchases, people will be able to trade their items, with the game making its money from a cut on every transaction. That way, each item goes on generating money for the company every time it's traded.

OK… but if we ignore all that, it's surely going to mean game designs affected to fit that essentially microtransaction model.
I agree. You need something where players constantly upgrade their equipment and can trade the old stuff at a market. A Diablo style game is the first thing that comes to mind as any piece of equipment might be useful for a couple of hours of gameplay, but then it becomes underpowered.
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January 23rd, 2022, 22:55
I learned my lesson with these kinds of shenanigans back when I played Everquest, and vowed never to give a penny of my money to any company that attempts something similar. At some point you just have to say no. Granted they weren't NFT's per se, yet I consider them of the same ilk.
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January 24th, 2022, 00:18
When DLC was new people said vote with your wallet.

When GAAS SP Online games became popular people said vote with your wallet.

Guess what they did. It's now accepted and no one cares anymore.
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January 24th, 2022, 00:33
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
That makes me not want to buy Rome out of spite. I know its not logical, but I was buying their games on release before to support a small indie studio I liked. If they're just giving up on these games I may as well wait for the bargain bin.
Same here, I typically buy games like this either before or upon release, to support the developer if nothing else. In this case, I'll just wait until I'm ready to play it someday (if I ever am…)
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January 24th, 2022, 00:41
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
When DLC was new people said vote with your wallet.

When GAAS SP Online games became popular people said vote with your wallet.

Guess what they did. It's now accepted and no one cares anymore.
To be honest, those things in and of themselves aren't bad.

I've just played Age of empires 4 and Greedfall for £1 in 3 months…
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January 24th, 2022, 00:53
Originally Posted by Carnifex View Post
People simply need to take a firm stand here, this is a line that shouldn't be crossed no matter what, and don't do it no matter what. No game, no subject whatsoever is worth tolerating this kind of nonsense, vote with your wallets and the powers that be/corporations will eventually notice.

Stand as one, do not capitulate.
Buying or not buying this game, this non NFT game that has already been created, has got fuck all to do with taking some stand against NFTs or whatever it is you think you're protesting.

I have no interest in NFTs, cryptocurrency or any of that exploitative garbage, but I bought and have been playing this interesting, well made single player RPG.

There hasn't been DLC for either Conquistador or Vikings, so enough handwringing about "oh no, what about my DLC?" with Rome also, please.
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January 24th, 2022, 01:19
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
To be honest, those things in and of themselves aren't bad.

I've just played Age of empires 4 and Greedfall for £1 in 3 months…
Then you voted with your wallet the wrong way.

Your part of the problem.
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January 24th, 2022, 02:06
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
Buying or not buying this game, this non NFT game that has already been created, has got fuck all to do with taking some stand against NFTs or whatever it is you think you're protesting.

I have no interest in NFTs, cryptocurrency or any of that exploitative garbage, but I bought and have been playing this interesting, well made single player RPG.

There hasn't been DLC for either Conquistador or Vikings, so enough handwringing about "oh no, what about my DLC?" with Rome also, please.
I highly doubt Carnifex was referring to Expeditions: Rome in that bit you quoted, it was a rant about not buying microtransaction/NFT/whatever games.
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January 24th, 2022, 02:33
I haven't played very far yet because I've been working every day since it's release and I'm playing on Insane difficulty… But so far, the game seems very polished and I haven't encountered any bugs. The loading times are lightning fast (I do have installed on an SSD). And it's great fun. I still miss attribute scores but the skill trees seem pretty well though out & you have a good amount of options for each class.

Some of the developers, Jonas in particular, have been very active on the Expeditions Discord answering questions. I'm glad he isn't involved with the NFT rubbish. Perhaps he'll start a new indie studio soon.
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January 24th, 2022, 04:14
No, I certainly wasn't complaining about Rome. I've not picked up the game as of yet, though I both played and enjoyed the prior Conquistador and Vikings, so I'm fairly certain I'll like Rome also.
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January 24th, 2022, 11:14
Originally Posted by daveyd View Post
I haven't played very far yet because I've been working every day since it's release and I'm playing on Insane difficulty… But so far, the game seems very polished and I haven't encountered any bugs. The loading times are lightning fast (I do have installed on an SSD). And it's great fun. I still miss attribute scores but the skill trees seem pretty well though out & you have a good amount of options for each class.

Some of the developers, Jonas in particular, have been very active on the Expeditions Discord answering questions. I'm glad he isn't involved with the NFT rubbish. Perhaps he'll start a new indie studio soon.
I agree with all that. Oh yes, the loading times are a big improvement, it's starting to bug me in Viking.

They have trimmed and polished everything in Rome. We retrieve the main skills that were in Viking but they are organized in tiers to make it more consistent with a character progression. No more character attributes but a starting point based on the class. I don't miss the details too much, but it could be a problem for people who love to optimize their builds, or want to use that as part of the roleplay.

The combat log and the chat log disappear once it's over, and the current tracked quest is always displayed at the top right. Little things to make the game more accessible (less geeky?) that I wouldn't have done that way but it's not really annoying either. The overall impression is something much cleaner.

I haven't met many bugs, just a few minor ones. The UI is beautiful but there are a few confusing descriptions, like the weapon below (is it applying bleeding or removing it?). The mechanics are not yet entirely clear to me because of that, but it's not preventing me from having a lot of fun with this game, I really like it.

And the team is great, I'm surprised to see some of the reactions here.
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January 24th, 2022, 11:38
Originally Posted by Terry View Post
There's a sucker born every minute and apparently the younger generation of gamers does not seem to worry too much about these shady practices.
Why would the practices be shady? As long as it's transparent what a customer gets for his money the term imho isn't justified.
That doesn't mean that we have to like these new sales models but I think it's wrong to generally condemn them. It depends on the implementation.
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January 24th, 2022, 11:52
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
Why would the practices be shady? As long as it's transparent what a customer gets for his money the term imho isn't justified.
That doesn't mean that we have to like these new sales models but I think it's wrong to generally condemn them. It depends on the implementation.
I have to agree with Terry here, but I'm afraid this is leading us out of topic. You can't give something dangerous or noxious to the public and pretend it's fine because the characteristics are supposed to be known. There's a part of responsibility that goes to the vendor, and people just don't behave naturally in a responsible way.

Besides, what good could possibly come to the public in general from using NFTs? It's detrimental to the environment, to the consumers and to the quality of the games themselves. Blockchain is not a bad technology in itself if we see that as a temporary, necessary step towards something more sensible (much like coal was a necessary step to cleaner energy sources), but has it any place in a game?
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January 24th, 2022, 19:08
Sure it is shady. It is presented as a revolution for the good of the players in the same way the micro transactions in FIFA were advertised.

It wouldn't be shady if they said something like 'we will get lot of money from it and that is why we do it but we will try to make it worth for you'.

No, what they say is microtransaction and loot boxes are not us implementing casino mechanisms and NFT is that huge sacrifice we do for you, the players.

When you see them having to resort to Marketing/PR BS, it's shady.
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January 24th, 2022, 19:50
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
The UI is beautiful but there are a few confusing descriptions, like the weapon below (is it applying bleeding or removing it?). The mechanics are not yet entirely clear to me because of that, but it's not preventing me from having a lot of fun with this game, I really like it.
That is a bit confusing for sure, but it means that Gouge applies bleeding to an enemy who does not yet have the bleeding status. If they already have bleeding, using Gouge on them does extra damage and then removes the bleeding status.
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January 24th, 2022, 21:58
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
That is a bit confusing for sure, but it means that Gouge applies bleeding to an enemy who does not yet have the bleeding status. If they already have bleeding, using Gouge on them does extra damage and then removes the bleeding status.
Thanks! That's more or less what one dev replied on Discord but he wasn't entirely sure. And the other Slash always applies bleeding, without removing it. The fact the skill description changes when equipping / removing the weapon doesn't help either.

There are a few things like that which require some testing & practicing before one can understand it. They said they'd work on it, but they tackle the most important bugs first.
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