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January 28th, 2018, 18:29
What is that Codex? Some PCGamer or IGN affiliate or something? The Surge, Nier, Nioh, Battle Brothers, Prey, Dominions5 .. Not talking about the quality of the games per se but they have a weird and vast definition of RPG: If some kind of biped is mentioned in any way, it is a RPG?
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January 28th, 2018, 18:53
What the hell is Prey? Kids these days… 🤔
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January 28th, 2018, 18:57
Chris Avellone view on the Prey nomination:

https://twitter.com/ChrisAvellone/st…23888358883328
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January 28th, 2018, 19:18
Prey has skills, loot, crafting, quests, exploration, C&C, NPC interaction, character progression, inventory handling and multiple endings based on your actions.

While it's clearly not a traditional RPG - it's certainly full of RPG features.

Don't be so small minded - it's not becoming.

This kind of criticism and genre rigidity is really petty.

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January 28th, 2018, 19:55
I am the last one to stop a "What is a RPG" discussion, but…

we count the Deus Ex series and System Shock 1+2 as an RPG. Why wouldn't we do it with Prey?
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January 28th, 2018, 20:09
There's something about RPGs that brings out the genre bigots in full force.

I couldn't tell you why.

It's almost as if people think a person calling a game an RPG means he's saying it's YOUR kind of RPG or a great RPG in an objective sense.

Some people tend to think they own the genre and get to decide what it really is. That kind of bigotry reminds me of racism in a way.

All it means is that it fits the RPG definition for that person - and that will always be subjective and about personal experiences.

I don't personally think of Prey, System Shock or Deus Ex as RPGs - but I can easily see why others would.

I don't understand why it's a problem that the genre is wide. It was always one of the wider genres - and it has so many elements that have been part of it that almost any game could arguably be one.

Is that a big problem? If so, why?

Are you afraid some scary monster will come along and change the great RPGs of the past?

If anything, the genre has grown tremendously after it was introduced to the mainstream - and we're seeing more traditional and old-school RPGs these days than perhaps we ever did.

That's ON TOP of all these new variations of similar gameplay elements. Genres I never cared about have begun to implement a lot of RPG features, meaning I suddenly want to play them - among them is the "looter shooter" genre, which has taken on traditional character progression and varied loot properties as an integral gameplay carrot. To me, that's great.

I would much rather be playing Borderlands or Division than yet another Doom.

We should be rejoicing rather than be so narrow and petty about the genre.

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January 28th, 2018, 20:28
I'd rather call Prey an RPG than an "immersive sim."
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January 28th, 2018, 20:56
Originally Posted by Clocknova View Post
I wanted to like The first Original Sin, but it was too linear and Diablo-like for me. Couldn't stand the loot system and the fact that half the game was spent running back and forth between vendors. But I can see how some (many) loved it. I'm giving the sequel a pass.
It's much improved in all areas. Loot is less abundent and it actually takes a while to find good stuff for your chars. I would still prefer unique loot to the prefix-suffix stuff, but it's bearable.

There are also less and more meaningful fights. Especially on strategist mode most fights make you think. You can still cheese the system if you want and with the right skills you can powergame solo through the game on hardest mode without any boss having even a faint chance. Your decision, though.
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January 28th, 2018, 21:01
Wasn't Prey also on the rpgwatch poll? And I'm sure it had some posts mention it in the comments.
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January 28th, 2018, 21:06
Originally Posted by Cacheperl View Post
Wasn't Prey also on the rpgwatch poll? And I'm sure it had some posts mention it in the comments.
I certainly voted for it - though I didn't really pay attention to whether it was GOTY or RPG of the year.

To me, a great game is a great game - and I don't give a shit what genre it belongs to.

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January 28th, 2018, 21:09
Originally Posted by Mercutio View Post
Thought ELEX would be higher
I'm not surprised it isn't though. It wasn't released until midway through October, and a lot of RPG fans were still playing D:OS 2.
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January 28th, 2018, 21:18
I might be mistaken but it looks like their scoring takes into account number of people who actually played the game as well as their opinion of the game. I like this as it gives weight to those games that many people did not play. I know in our (rpgwatch) voting we don't really consider how many people actually played the game so in my specific case I haven't played a lot of the games up for voting but I suspect the winner D:OS-2 also had the most players.
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January 28th, 2018, 21:18
Yeah, their system seems more in-depth and useful as an aggregate. Of course, you need to understand the Codex mindset as well

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January 28th, 2018, 21:25
Expeditions: Viking is in 4th place. Well deserved. I actually liked it a lot more than Battle Brothers although that's just simply the matter of taste difference rather than the quality issues.
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January 28th, 2018, 21:26
I've yet to play Expeditions. I really should try it.

I can't get past the art style with little heads in Battle Brothers - so I'm steering clear of that one.

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January 28th, 2018, 22:16
It's fine to have a broad definition of what an RPG is but to some people (like yours truly) roleplaying is a lot more than coming up with some "RPG elements" and if that makes me a smug elitist then so be it.

If you want a true roleplaying experience you have to play a pen and paper game, computer games are just a poor substitute.
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January 28th, 2018, 22:20
Originally Posted by Gloomseeker View Post
It's fine to have a broad definition of what an RPG is but to some people (like yours truly) roleplaying is a lot more than coming up with some "RPG elements" and if that makes me a smug elitist then so be it.
The point is that what's an RPG to you doesn't translate to what's objectively required.

But I'm curious. What does it take, if not RPG elements?

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January 29th, 2018, 00:07
Originally Posted by NewDArt View Post
The point is that what's an RPG to you doesn't translate to what's objectively required.

But I'm curious. What does it take, if not RPG elements?
You're talking about objectivity when I'm afraid it's all very subjective and personal.

Also it seems to me that you've misread what I wrote. I posted that it takes MORE than that, I didn't imply RPG elements weren't needed.

Basically a true RPG shouldn't rely on the physical skill of the player. That's one thing that most people overlook. If you're roleplaying then only the physical prowess of your character should be taken into account to determine success or failure and that disqualifies any games that rely on the player's ability to aim his mouse or stick for success. That's a big objection because in a real RPG you can be disabled or just had at aiming or have poor reflexes and still be able to play the role of a skilled character whereas in what most agree to call an action RPG your skill as a player is what matters, i,.e. you're not playing a role but you're playing a game.

Computer games are pretty much comparable to choose your own adventure game books in the sense that the experience is limited to what has been written and anticipated by the devs whereas pen and paper RPG is all about adapting and improvising. A fun pen and paper session is a collaborative effort between a number of people whereas a computer game is about providing a predetermined template with only some limited input on the player's part.

People are going on about VR when actual roleplaying is the ultimate VR experience simply because it relies on the power of imagination and is not limited by budget and technical issues.

That being said computer games are easy to use and convenient requiring very little effort which surely explains why they are so popular. It's fine really but let's not lose sight of the fact that they are still incredibly limited compared to the real thing (maybe one day we'll have real AIs in charge of NPCs which will be able to react and adapt to any action and learn from previous sessions but right now it's certainly not the case).
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January 29th, 2018, 00:31
Let's keep it simple, if it has Elves, it must be an RPG, if it doesn't, then it's not!!
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January 29th, 2018, 00:47
Yeah, but then people would start to argue again anyways.
"Hey, that's a fariy, not an elf." "Racist!".
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