|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » Knights of the Old Republic is 15 Years Old

Default Knights of the Old Republic is 15 Years Old

July 17th, 2018, 20:41
just pointing out your semantic argument on why there's no difference between the two in what they did.
--
Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
Lucky Day is offline

Lucky Day

Lucky Day's Avatar
Daywatch

#41

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Uncanny Valley
Posts: 4,537
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 20:43
Yeah, I guess that didn't quite convince

But you're welcome to try again.

That, or we could get back on topic in the hopes of a more productive exchange.
Darth Tagnan is offline

Darth Tagnan

Darth Tagnan's Avatar
SasqWatch

#42

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,620
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 20:44
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
At least it seems you've learned the difference between being inspired and stealing from others and using it yourself
Actually, I didn't. What's your point on the difference between being inspired by something and taking different elements of stories and putting them together?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
Pladio is offline

Pladio

Pladio's Avatar
Guardian of Nonsense
Original Sin Donor

#43

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 5,951
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Send a message via MSN to Pladio

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 20:49
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
Actually, I didn't. What's your point on the difference between being inspired by something and taking different elements of stories and putting them together?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
One is theft, the other is not

But seriously:

It's a matter of degree. There's no black and white definition that will satisfy all conditions in all cases.

I think the first step is to understand that I'm not saying stealing directly from others and putting a new spin on it is necessarily a bad thing. I'm saying that I have a hard time thinking of such a thing as worth fretting about in terms of canon.

As for Tolkien, I truly believe that he created Middle-Earth based almost entirely on his own work - and he created his own languages from scratch. He actively wanted to create a modern mythology on the level of the Authurian Legend - and I think he succeeded.

He also spent most of his life on this creation - which is a strange thing to do if you're just copying people.

If you take something like Harry Potter - I'd say that's something along the middle of the road from what Lucas did and what Tolkien did.

But I don't think I've ever seen a movie, read a book - or played a game - where I could say it was 100% original in every single way.

So, I would have thought that was obviously not the point.

I guess not.

If you truly don't understand what I'm saying - I guess you'd be fine saying if I copied, say, Witcher 3 word for word and called it Bitcher 3 - it would be the same thing as being inspired by it like Tolkien was inspired by other myths, right?
Darth Tagnan is offline

Darth Tagnan

Darth Tagnan's Avatar
SasqWatch

#44

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,620
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 20:50
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
According to some articles Star Wars was inspired by Valérian and Laureline.

Link - https://www.core77.com/posts/60032/F…ovie-Treatment

If so I watched the the movie and it was terrible.
Star Wars was not inspired by but stole elements from. Which is not an insult in sci fi world. Awsome idea(s) from ignored material has to, needs to be stolen and brought to wider public so it never gets forgotten.

Unlike original Star Wars, the 1000 city movie is an insult to the source series of graphic novels. That mediocrity hurts even more than Jackson's Lord of Wellington just not of Auckland.
--
Toka Koka
joxer is offline

joxer

joxer's Avatar
The Smoker
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#45

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,671
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 20:57
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
You are arguing semantics again. His work was not original and he freely admits to the influence of Beowulf, which he was a leading critic of.

If you are looking for sources, there are plenty if you look it up.

Here's one https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart…ogy-180964935/
I'm sorry, but that's a pretty dumb comment.

Of course he had influences, every writer does. That doesn't make his work less original.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor

#46

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 25,176
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 20:58
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Star Wars was not inspired by but stole elements from. Which is not an insult in sci fi world. Awsome idea(s) from ignored material has to, needs to be stolen and brought to wider public so it never gets forgotten.

Unlike original Star Wars, the 1000 city movie is an insult to the source series of graphic novels. That mediocrity hurts even more than Jackson's Lord of Wellington just not of Auckland.
Never even heard of Valérian and Laureline until you talked about the movie a few years back Joxer. I bought it for ten dollars at local Walmart, and only watched it once.
--
"One Vision. One Purpose. Peace Through Power."

Check out my RPG News Thread usually updated daily.
Couchpotato is offline

Couchpotato

Couchpotato's Avatar
In the Name of Kane!

#47

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 18,045
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 21:00
And yet, like John Carter and Avatar, no one watched Valerien.

It looks like the visuals are taken from this comic but the main story is Hidden Fortress. Kurasawa didn't mind though. He was broke and Lucas was a big fan. One thing in Lucas defense is he couldn't get the rights to the Flash Gordon remake (re: the visuals from the movie serial) like he wanted and suddenly had $25 million in his pocket to make a movie he needed to spend.

On another note, Isaac Asimov, Frank Herbert, and Arthur C. Clarke formed an official club they called Science Fiction Writers Too Big for Star Wars in their mutual opinion that their stories were being Shangheid. Of course, Herbert himself forgot when forming this club, that he discovered the "medieval formula" of the dragon guarding the treasure in the castle for Dune.
--
Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
Lucky Day is offline

Lucky Day

Lucky Day's Avatar
Daywatch

#48

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Uncanny Valley
Posts: 4,537
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 21:01
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Never even heard of Valérian and Laureline until you talked about the movie a few years back Joxer. I bought it for ten dollars at local Walmart, and only watched it once.
Here's hope you didn't buy Kotor for 10 bucks on phones but played it on a thing it's supposed to be played on. More than once.
--
Toka Koka
joxer is offline

joxer

joxer's Avatar
The Smoker
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#49

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,671
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 21:02
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I'm sorry, but that's a pretty dumb comment.

Of course he had influences, every writer does. That doesn't make his work less original.
Including Lucas? I am saying they are in the same category when someone is claiming that Tolkien is entirely original when he is not. And its turned into an argument of semantics.
--
Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
Lucky Day is offline

Lucky Day

Lucky Day's Avatar
Daywatch

#50

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Uncanny Valley
Posts: 4,537
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 21:03
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Here's hope you didn't buy Kotor for 10 bucks on phones but played it on a thing it's supposed to be played on. More than once.
Nah it's a phone game why would I buy that.
--
"One Vision. One Purpose. Peace Through Power."

Check out my RPG News Thread usually updated daily.
Couchpotato is offline

Couchpotato

Couchpotato's Avatar
In the Name of Kane!

#51

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 18,045
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 21:05
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
On another note, Isaac Asimov, Frank Herbert, and Arthur C. Clarke formed an official club they called Science Fiction Writers Too Big for Star Wars in their mutual opinion that their stories were being Shangheid. Of course, Herbert himself forgot when forming this club, that he discovered the "medieval formula" of the dragon guarding the treasure in the castle for Dune.
Some of the best Sc-Fi writers it's to bad the son of Herbert is not as good as the father.
--
"One Vision. One Purpose. Peace Through Power."

Check out my RPG News Thread usually updated daily.
Couchpotato is offline

Couchpotato

Couchpotato's Avatar
In the Name of Kane!

#52

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New England
Posts: 18,045
Mentioned: 13 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 21:05
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Nah it's a phone game why would I buy that.
It's not.

loading…
--
Toka Koka
joxer is offline

joxer

joxer's Avatar
The Smoker
Original Sin 1 & 2 Donor

#53

Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 18,671
Mentioned: 85 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 21:06
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
Including Lucas? I am saying they are in the same category when someone is claiming that Tolkien is entirely original when he is not. And its turned into an argument of semantics.
That isn't what you said in that post, but ok.
JDR13 is offline

JDR13

JDR13's Avatar
SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor

#54

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Florida, US
Posts: 25,176
Mentioned: 27 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 21:06
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
Including Lucas? I am saying they are in the same category when someone is claiming that Tolkien is entirely original when he is not. And its turned into an argument of semantics.
Don't be a liar as well as a fool.

I said he created pretty much everything he did. I never said anything about him being 100% original or that he invented the concept of a dragon.

You're being really stupid right now, I'm sorry to say.
Darth Tagnan is offline

Darth Tagnan

Darth Tagnan's Avatar
SasqWatch

#55

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,620
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 22:00
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
One is theft, the other is not

But seriously:

It's a matter of degree. There's no black and white definition that will satisfy all conditions in all cases.

I think the first step is to understand that I'm not saying stealing directly from others and putting a new spin on it is necessarily a bad thing. I'm saying that I have a hard time thinking of such a thing as worth fretting about in terms of canon.

As for Tolkien, I truly believe that he created Middle-Earth based almost entirely on his own work - and he created his own languages from scratch. He actively wanted to create a modern mythology on the level of the Authurian Legend - and I think he succeeded.

He also spent most of his life on this creation - which is a strange thing to do if you're just copying people.

If you take something like Harry Potter - I'd say that's something along the middle of the road from what Lucas did and what Tolkien did.

But I don't think I've ever seen a movie, read a book - or played a game - where I could say it was 100% original in every single way.

So, I would have thought that was obviously not the point.

I guess not.

If you truly don't understand what I'm saying - I guess you'd be fine saying if I copied, say, Witcher 3 word for word and called it Bitcher 3 - it would be the same thing as being inspired by it like Tolkien was inspired by other myths, right?
But I do not see how Star Wars is a copy/paste of any one thing just as I do not see Lord of the Rings being a copy of any one single thing, so the analogy is too much of an exaggeration to make sense in this context.

Yes Tolkien probably put more effort into it, but does effort mean he took any less inspiration from the Nordic and Anglo-Saxon myths than Lucas did from other books and stories?
Pladio is offline

Pladio

Pladio's Avatar
Guardian of Nonsense
Original Sin Donor

#56

Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Manchester, United Kingdom
Posts: 5,951
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Send a message via MSN to Pladio

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 22:02
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
Don't be a liar as well as a fool.

I said he created pretty much everything he did. I never said anything about him being 100% original or that he invented the concept of a dragon.

You're being really stupid right now, I'm sorry to say.
I thought we had a policy about name calling around here
--
Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
Lucky Day is offline

Lucky Day

Lucky Day's Avatar
Daywatch

#57

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Uncanny Valley
Posts: 4,537
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 22:07
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Some of the best Sc-Fi writers it's to bad the son of Herbert is not as good as the father.
I liked the prequels he wrote with Kevin Anderson and even the sequels they did better than any of the sequels of Dune his father wrote (except the last in the series which was downright awful). His biography of his father was insightful, but terribly written. He admits he became so terrified of his father that he is overly cautious about what he says even now. So what's surprising is I've never found any of Anderson's solo books any where near as good as the collaboration these two did together. I haven't read any of his Star Wars books though, which many say are the best of all of them.
--
Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
Lucky Day is offline

Lucky Day

Lucky Day's Avatar
Daywatch

#58

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Uncanny Valley
Posts: 4,537
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 22:09
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
That isn't what you said in that post, but ok.
possibly, but I am getting caught up in the argument. I am only saying that Tolkien isn't as original as being claimed and I am taking a lot of heat for it with a semantic argument.
--
Developer of The Wizard's Grave Android game. Discussion Thread:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22520
Lucky Day is offline

Lucky Day

Lucky Day's Avatar
Daywatch

#59

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: The Uncanny Valley
Posts: 4,537
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)

Default 

July 17th, 2018, 22:10
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
But I do not see how Star Wars is a copy/paste of any one thing just as I do not see Lord of the Rings being a copy of any one single thing, so the analogy is too much of an exaggeration to make sense in this context.

Yes Tolkien probably put more effort into it, but does effort mean he took any less inspiration from the Nordic and Anglo-Saxon myths than Lucas did from other books and stories?
I think it's extremely obvious who borrowed more and who created more - but why is it important that we agree?

It's not important to me.
Darth Tagnan is offline

Darth Tagnan

Darth Tagnan's Avatar
SasqWatch

#60

Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,620
Mentioned: 17 Post(s)
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » Knights of the Old Republic is 15 Years Old
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:47.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright by RPGWatch