Dark Souls II - Beta Impression @ AnalogAddiction

There arent a gazillion RPG's with this sort of combat, in fact Gothic and DS are the only RPG's where i've really enjoyed the combat mechanics. And again, try Hack'n Slashing through this game, you won't get past the first boss.. so no, the combat does not share any similarities with Diablo and other Hack'n Slash RPG's.

If you didn't enjoy DS, then no doubt you're not gonna enjoy DS2. But again, i doubt you played it for long, especially if you used keyb/mouse.

bussinrounds said:

Trying to play a game like this with a m&k ? There's your first mistake.

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Hehe, I am doing it, with the fixes it is actually quite possibly... in very few situations there is even an advantage over a controller, those are very rare though.

I don't doubt that playing with a controller would be much better though.

Well speak for your self

I've only used a controller a couple of times (not with DS) and I suck at it...

I am doing quite well with m+k if I may say so myself (currently level 68 and twoshotting black knights with a zweihander +10 etc) Still a rookie though

JonNik said:

Well speak for your self

I've only used a controller a couple of times

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There's your problem, you won't get any better by refusing to use one it's the same as if someone would say they prefer controller for FPS games because they're not used with Mouse/KB. They'll be able to play the games but it will be far from optimal.

Mouse/keyb is superior for non lock-on combat that requires aiming, controllers are better for third person games, melee combat and lock-on + also much better for games that requires you to often switch from running to walking slow since you can do that completely seamless with a controller.

Heh, I understand what you are saying but I doubt I'll be buying one for the couple of games that really require it. Especially as I can get by quite nicely without for the time being. I am strangely stingy like that I may splurge (latest peripheral acquisition) without thinking if I really want something but try to make me buy something that I don't want…

In the end though I guess its just a case of old dog - new tricks

I really hope they have taken some time to do a better job on #2… If they want a full price purchase from me. Although I guess the mods should be up and running in no time after the experience with DS1

Dark Souls is definitely better with a controller - at least for me. Specifically, a PS3 controller.

Anyone claiming DS is "on rails" or "hack & slash" probably never actually played it. Unfortunately, I think it's one of those games where a lot of people simply watched some footage on YouTube, made false assumptions, and then left bogus comments about it.

JDR13 said:

Dark Souls is definitely better with a controller - at least for me. Specifically, a PS3 controller.

Anyone claiming DS is "on rails" or "hack & slash" probably never actually played it. Unfortunately, I think it's one of those games where a lot of people simply watched some footage on YouTube, made false assumptions, and then left bogus comments about it.

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..that or downloaded a pirate copy and when they get to the first boss (first two-five minutes of the game) - rage quit > uninstall.

I think the hardest thing about Dark Souls is the fact that it ISN'T on rails. When people complain that the game is too difficult, it's often because they wandered into an area that was too high level for them, or completely missed a very important area, item or save point.

I really enjoyed the combat in DS, but it can get frustrating at times. I never managed to get past the Bell Gargoyle, even after trying many, many times. That's where you start out fighting one, but another joins the fight halfway through. While there are other areas I could go to, the monsters seem much more powerful there, and I was told to avoid the Depths until you beat the Gargoyles as you can get cursed in the Depths and definitely don't want to fight them at half capacity.

I want to go back and give it another try, and probably should soon - not sure what they are going to do about the GFWL DRM once that goes away next year.

Gosh, I didn't expect my quick impressions post to be analyzed so deeply. No, I have not played it, that is what it looked like from the demo video. If I got some particulars wrong, like checkpoint saves, fine, acknowledged. It still isn't my thing, and is not a game I find appealing. Sheesh.

Xian said:

I really enjoyed the combat in DS, but it can get frustrating at times. I never managed to get past the Bell Gargoyle, even after trying many, many times. That's where you start out fighting one, but another joins the fight halfway through. While there are other areas I could go to, the monsters seem much more powerful there, and I was told to avoid the Depths until you beat the Gargoyles as you can get cursed in the Depths and definitely don't want to fight them at half capacity.

I want to go back and give it another try, and probably should soon - not sure what they are going to do about the GFWL DRM once that goes away next year.

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You can get help from an NPC to fight with you, and you can also summon other players to fight bosses (never tried it myself).

I thought the mechanics with souls and different things to use at certain points of the game was rather confusing. All that you have to figure out yourself (manual isnt of any help) or use google/youtube. So I found myself watching a lot of youtube clips and reading a lot, much more so than for other games. It's a bit disapointing when you have to do that too much, that's probably my main complaint.. It's not a very "accessible" game, it's really interesting that it got so successful, despite it's both unforgiving and non-accessible.

Just summon Solaire for the Gargoyles and he'll kill them for ya basically on his own.

As for the constant "controllers is much better than k+m for DS" debate, we've had that going on vehemently with some of my friends, so I invited them to experiment.

All of us have well over 300 hours in the game, did several builds, numerous playthroughs, etc. We got together, they brought the controller, I used my keyboard and 6 button mouse with DSMfix. We took turns playing from level one. I turned faster, was much more accurate in combat, blocked and parried more effectively, never fell off of anything. Generally I'm a crappier player than them, yet I died less than any other player using the controller. Then our buddy who has never played DS tried it (he has both a console and a PC at home, so he knows both control scemes) with keyb+mouse and with controller, and he said key+m was much better even if it feels odd for a console title at first.

So there. It may not convince you all, but it sure did all my buddies who were there.

But controls debate aside, this is turning into the kinda argument where one side knows this game by heart, whereas the others never even tried it, yet they have already formed a permanent and in-depth opinion about it.

Soulbane said:

he said key+m was much better even if it feels odd for a console title at first.

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I dunno... I'd give controller a solid chance. It'll win in the end.

I find looking around with a mouse at 30fps feels horrible, but the camera rotation speed with the controllers analogue stick is perfectly designed for 30fps and consequentially feels nice and smooth.

If, like me, you've been playing FPS games with a mouse and KB since Half-life then, without thinking, you do actions like flick the mouse for a 180 degree turn and you get 4 or 5 choppy frames. Doing your natural mouse+kb style feels MORE foreign than its native control scheme.

So, I learned to use a controller with this game and it was kinda fun seeing how bad I was at using it too. Those tightrope sections like sens and anor had me wiping my clammy palms on my pants every 2 steps. I couldn't go from standstill to full run confident that I'd go in a straight line.

But here I am today, very confident with the controller but dark souls is still the only game I've used it with.

ALSO: controller kicks ass for slouching in your chair, legs up on the desk, etc

I finally got motivated to buy the original and order a controller. This is afterall the spiritual successor to Severance Blade of Darkness. Similiar mood, similar thoughtful melee mechanics. It is a genre in its own right and its a waste of time calling it a true RPG or making statements calling it hack-n-slash. I'm sure the latter is a attempt to diminish the game which is a real shame really. I'm guessing this is due to the number of players who can't handle the realtime tactics required to play it successfully.... as was certainly the case for Severance.

Other then summoning help, you can also just go back and try the gargoyles later. Killing them won't really help you or do anything all that useful until much later in the game. I just ignored them and came back when I was more powerful.

Xian said:

I really enjoyed the combat in DS, but it can get frustrating at times. I never managed to get past the Bell Gargoyle, even after trying many, many times. That's where you start out fighting one, but another joins the fight halfway through. While there are other areas I could go to, the monsters seem much more powerful there, and I was told to avoid the Depths until you beat the Gargoyles as you can get cursed in the Depths and definitely don't want to fight them at half capacity.

I want to go back and give it another try, and probably should soon - not sure what they are going to do about the GFWL DRM once that goes away next year.

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You can actually summon 2 NPCs for the Gargoyle fight aslong as you free Lautrec and talk to him at the Firelink Shrine afterwards, then he will join you too.

vurt said:

There's your problem, you won't get any better by refusing to use one it's the same as if someone would say they prefer controller for FPS games because they're not used with Mouse/KB. They'll be able to play the games but it will be far from optimal.

Mouse/keyb is superior for non lock-on combat that requires aiming, controllers are better for third person games, melee combat and lock-on + also much better for games that requires you to often switch from running to walking slow since you can do that completely seamless with a controller.

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I disagree with this.

The same advantages you have in a FPS are still there in a 3rd person action game.

Being able to turn on a dime when flanked or turn 180 in a split second is much better than the laggy and slow rotation of the analog controller.

Being able to back peddle or strafe in an instant is better than the slight pause when changing direction with an analog controller.

Having 13 buttons on my mouse and another cluster of buttons around WSAD is better than the limited buttons on a controller.

I can still walk and run on K&M. Yes I can't accelerate slowly but when do I want to do that really.(other than driving games) usually your trying to dodge or run from an enemy and I'd rather that happen instantly rather than slowly.

To me using m&k is like running and cutting on dry land and using an analog controller is like running and cutting on snow and ice.

I know I'm in the minority but factor in the fact that I have 20+ years of K&M experience and comparatively very limited analog controller experience and it seems silly to tell me controller would be a better way for me to play.

ToddMcF2002 said:

Severance Blade of Darkness.

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I haven't played Severance.

Am I missing out? Should I go download it right now?

Have I asked you this before?

SirJames said:

I haven't played Severance.

Am I missing out? Should I go download it right now?

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Amazing (although pure combat) game for its time. The similarities (and nostalgia ) was what made me give Dark Souls a chance in the first place too (So thank you BoD, again )…

Can't tell you how good the game has aged though…

Severance is $6 on GOG. I think it has aged remarkably well. The graphics work well because of the models, animation and (for the day) advanced lighting system. The combat is pure brilliance - and fair warning pretty gory compared to DS.