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Default Bethesda Softworks - 5 Things Elder Scrolls V Shouldn't Do

April 23rd, 2009, 13:55
Originally Posted by Dusk View Post
Considering the success of Oblivion and FO3, I don't think Bethesda feels that they are in need of good writers.
I think Bruckheimer feels much the same way about the scripts he's basing his movies on.




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April 23rd, 2009, 14:17
I like the way you divided those games PJ. I feel pretty much the same way, although I would place G2 in the top category, and Oblivion in the middle. Two Worlds is also in the middle, in my opinion.
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April 23rd, 2009, 14:55
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Did you seriously get a real sense of character progression in Oblivion and Mass Effect?
Not as much as I would have liked. But I did enjoy the overall "feel" of the combat; the "twitch factor" as it were, and boosting skills, stats, or weapons *did* make a noticeable difference. Those two were at the "bottom of the top" for a reason.
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April 23rd, 2009, 14:59
Originally Posted by Prime Junta View Post
Not as much as I would have liked. But I did enjoy the overall "feel" of the combat; the "twitch factor" as it were, and boosting skills, stats, or weapons *did* make a noticeable difference. Those two were at the "bottom of the top" for a reason.
Roger that.

I'll concede that I'm pretty demanding in this way, so maybe it's too much to expect.




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April 23rd, 2009, 17:56
This was a pretty good list and about what I would expect from a casual gamer. When he’s not being overly clever, Matt Peckham makes a good point.

IMO, the fifth TES game should be a remake of Daggerfall. It would be a shame if it were never attempted, and now seems a good time. Having said that, here’s my own list of a few dos and don’ts:

Switch gears with the approach to game balance. Make TES V complex and sophisticated. For example, replace the general reputation system with a faction-specific one. Emphasize lore and mystery. Design a world with incessant, seemingly unrestricted legacy.

Limit level-scaling to random encounters, like bandits you might meet along the road. And mix it up for the sake of variety. Design it to add value, not detract value.

Bring the modding effort in-house. Develop the game in a way where modifications would make better sense and could be applied with discretion and intrigue during each and every play-through.

Utilize voice acting sparingly (Peckham’s best point, IMO). Sacrifice that bit of simulation in order to take advantage of the greater flexibility of text-based communications.

Implement a cool clever method of fast travel, one as dangerous as it is convenient that would be an adventure in and of itself.
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April 23rd, 2009, 18:01
I would like to see a Gothic III setup when it comes to the main quest.

Oblivion and Fallout 3 had a A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H-… "follow the waypoint" kind of progression.

Gothic had 3 different ways you made progress;
1. Collect chalices (any order). Since they were spread out you could explore the landscape in no particular order and search for the chalices.
2. Gain faction reputation. Each time you "resolve" a location you got reputation. Increased reputation unlocks new quests and locations. Since it's tied to a number you can do this in any order and go back to previous areas when your reputation is higher.
3. Get more powerful so that you can beat stuff standing in your way
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April 23rd, 2009, 19:20
I'd also like to add to my prior list that I'd like to see the end of 'cells.' I'd like to see a seamless world like the gothic series.
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April 23rd, 2009, 20:49
As long as TES 5 - and any RPG for that matter - is primarily focused on console release, do not expect a complex and complicated game, 'cause you just won't get it. This is not to start a console games bash, but it is a fact nonetheless.
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April 24th, 2009, 04:21
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
I agree with everything you said, but the melee system gets killed in the process. Arx wasnt very good, nor was Dark Messiah and Oblivion was pretty bad. Shield blocking was cool but thats about it.
I disagree so much about Dark Messiah. The #1 great thing about Dark Messiah was the combat -- superb use of physical to give a really visceral feel as things get kicked and knocked around, great mix of different approaches you could take (run in and hit em over the head with your sword, interesting strategic spells like freeze, looking for things in the environment to break and throw, sneaking around to do things like kick enemies over ledges, etc), and the fantastic rope arrow allowing you to do things like climb up into rafters to get people from above.

Dark Messiah combat to me is the pinnacle so far of what real time first person combat can be in an RPG. It wasn't perfect (kicking was lots of fun but probably over-powered), but to me it was an absolute blast. That said, I can certainly see why some people wouldn't like it if they just don't like first person games (I also find combat in things like HL2 great fun), but for that style it is superb.

And as far as Oblivion goes, though nowhere near the level of Dark Messiah, I thought its combat was a great improvement over Morrowind. The most frustrating thing about Oblivion to me was though it greatly improved some things over Morrowing, it seemed to have the same number of significant steps backwards (such as the way over-done level scaling).

On the other hand, I found Fallout 3 an improvement in every way over Oblivion (surprisingly more interesting and varied world, much better level scaling with a feeling of progression, etc)… so I am hopeful that the next Elder Scrolls will be more in the right direction.
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April 24th, 2009, 16:30
I agree with GhanBuriGhan (didn't you create a couple of mods for morrowind? Travelling merchants right? I still wait for an update ) regarding most he wrote. I really enjoyed creating a character in Daggerfall and noticed the progression in a good enough way, though it could've been improved.

Other stuff:
- I really hope they keep 1st person as a viable option no matter what, since I feel more immersed that way.
- I think they should take away the combat music, make it optional or change how it works. It really sucks when I hear the music change and know that an enemy targeted me no matter if I noticed anyone or not. In this respect Daggerfall was really awesome: suddenly something is just standing there in front of you or hitting you in the back.
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April 24th, 2009, 19:27
For a TES game, I don't think they should drop the fundamental ideas that distinguish the games from other series out there, so keep the use-based system and FP view.

One of the things they really should do is something like Dunegon Siege 2's char system. I disliked the game overall but the combination of talent tree with the use-to-increase thing circumvented my main gripe with TES leveling, that it is boring and I have nothing to look forward to or plan. DS also changed the use-to-increase leveling so that your next level in any skill was slightly more costly than the previous skill leveled. So if you leveled Sword to 15 and Combat magic to 3, you could choose to level Sword to 16 or Combat magic to 4 and it would be as time consuming. It seemed better balanced, although I don't think I'd go completely in that direction since it discouraged anything but single-focus builds.

For combat, I'd look to Mount and Blade. I play M&B in first person, as it's my favorite view, and I love it. The directional attack/block idea is great fun.

A return to the focus on Lore and setting seen in MW is also a good one.
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April 24th, 2009, 20:03
5. Get the camera out of NPC faces.
The author suggests funky camera movements. But that would be bad, too, because of the paused world in the background. That woudl look creepy.
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April 25th, 2009, 09:33
If they can't come up with a good story line, something that isn't one cliché banging into the next, don't even bother.
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April 25th, 2009, 11:01
Originally Posted by ToddMcF2002 View Post
1. Hand craft a world.
2. Never, ever respawn anything.
3. Never, ever scale monsters to the players level.
4. Never, ever scale items to the players level.
5. Dump the first person perspective because melee sux.
Those are things it shouldn't do? I'm not sure I agree with all of them. Hand crafting a world, as long as you've built good enough tools is a good thing IMHO. I get the comments about respawning and scaling - they were rightly criticised for taking out the scaling in Daggerfall and replacing it with the fixed system in Morrowind. Also I agree that they shouldn't dump first person - TES has always had first person and it really adds to the immersion, one of the key features of TES compared to other RPGs for me.

Also I agree with Squeek - keeping Daggerfall as an aiming point is good - I think they went off this a lot in Morrowind and brought it back a lot closer to DF with Oblivion, one of the reasons Oblivion is so good IMHO. Daggerfall with the amazing on the fly mod system from Oblivion/Morrowind would be fanastic.
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