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February 8th, 2022, 07:44
So I bought the game yesterday and am looking for some tips.

I made a wizard and am thinking about going wizard 15, cleric/druid 15, mystic theurge 10. But this requires going Legend as mythic class, which I'm fine with from a role playing perspective.

Do I miss out on a large part of what makes the game unique if I do legend my first playthrough?
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February 8th, 2022, 09:43
Originally Posted by SveNitoR View Post
So I bought the game yesterday and am looking for some tips.

I made a wizard and am thinking about going wizard 15, cleric/druid 15, mystic theurge 10. But this requires going Legend as mythic class, which I'm fine with from a role playing perspective.

Do I miss out on a large part of what makes the game unique if I do legend my first playthrough?

Legend is late mythic path, so you would want to think about how you want to build your character with early mythic path of your choice.

I haven't tried out legend yet but @wolfgrimdark did, so maybe he can give you a bit more tip?
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February 8th, 2022, 09:46
Originally Posted by purpleblob1 View Post
Legend is late mythic path, so you would want to think about how you want to build your character with early mythic path of your choice.

I haven't tried out legend yet but @wolfgrimdark did, so maybe he can give you a bit more tip?
Alright, thanks. I'm likely going for azata first in that case.
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February 8th, 2022, 10:11
Originally Posted by SveNitoR View Post
Alright, thanks. I'm likely going for azata first in that case.
Cleric/druid would probably work better with Angel mythic which let you merge divine spellbook with Angel spellbook.

Just a suggestion You have plenty of time to decide on mythic anyway while you play
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February 8th, 2022, 10:33
Originally Posted by purpleblob1 View Post
Cleric/druid would probably work better with Angel mythic which let you merge divine spellbook with Angel spellbook.



Just a suggestion You have plenty of time to decide on mythic anyway while you play
Will I get to keep the mythic spells after going Legend? In that case I might go lich first. Hmm.

And yeah, plenty of time it will be. I usually play only a few hours a week, so I have weeks or maybe months to go…
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February 8th, 2022, 11:58
Originally Posted by SveNitoR View Post
Will I get to keep the mythic spells after going Legend? In that case I might go lich first.
I heard you gradually lose most of your mythic power/abilities/spells but not sure to what extent. My guess is that you keep spells/abilities you gained while you are mythic hero (before you choose early path) but lose any path specific ones eventually.

Hope wolfgrimdark can confirm soon
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February 8th, 2022, 15:30
My memory is a little vague at this point. You do loose your mythic powers, all of them, from what I recall, as you are giving them up to become a regular mortal again. In place of that you get another 20 levels - essentially a second class. You still can't go above level 20 in any one class though.

Area I am vague on is if you even lose the angel light ability that you get at the very beginning. Don't think so as that isn't directly tied to your mythic abilities. Pretty sure you lose the first two you pick that are "generic" though as those are mythic abilities even if not as fixed to a specific path. You have a quest to return to being mortal and as you do it your powers start declining in reverse order that you got them.

Sorry I can't be more help. I didn't care for the ML path at all and left a bad taste in my mouth. Deleted the game as soon as it was done and rushed through the end.

Not because it is bad in any specificway, and some might prefer it, but for me and my tastes I didn't like it at all. So it was a rushed experience pushed out of my mind.
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February 8th, 2022, 15:35
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
My memory is a little vague at this point. You do loose your mythic powers, all of them, from what I recall, as you are giving them up to become a regular mortal again. In place of that you get another 20 levels - essentially a second class. You still can't go above level 20 in any one class though.

Area I am vague on is if you even lose the angel light ability that you get at the very beginning. Don't think so as that isn't directly tied to your mythic abilities. Pretty sure you lose the first two you pick that are "generic" though as those are mythic abilities even if not as fixed to a specific path. You have a quest to return to being mortal and as you do it your powers start declining in reverse order that you got them.

Sorry I can't be more help. I didn't care for the ML path at all and left a bad taste in my mouth. Deleted the game as soon as it was done and rushed through the end.

Not because it is bad in any specificway, and some might prefer it, but for me and my tastes I didn't like it at all. So it was a rushed experience pushed out of my mind.
I read your earlier posts about it. Do you know why it wasn't to your taste? I really like the idea of being a "normal" wizard/cleric/theurge who beats almost godlike beings. But if the story is boring I'll likely change my plans.
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February 8th, 2022, 16:43
Originally Posted by SveNitoR View Post
I read your earlier posts about it. Do you know why it wasn't to your taste? I really like the idea of being a "normal" wizard/cleric/theurge who beats almost godlike beings. But if the story is boring I'll likely change my plans.
You might like it then. It might help if I at least explain that part of my taste is that I am not a gamer who wants to be another average every day Joe. I live that reality every day of my life

I am not interested in being extra special or the chosen one either, though I don't mind like some others do. What I tend to like is being above average in some ways. Not all powerful but to have some special abilities, powers, and heritage. Guess that is my little fantasy escape desire talking along with a general human desire to want to be a bit special.

That being said I was super excited about the whole ML path at first. I was thinking, this is perfect. I will be a Dhampir, so I get that something special in my heritage and supernatural yet my soul won't be tangled up with mythic abilities and gods (more than that I can't say without massive spoilers). A mere mortal giving the finger to all those greater powers … although in truth I like many of those greater powers so its more a figure of speech than any real motive.

The trouble is that to describe what I didn't like really requires knowing a great deal about the plot and how things are handled. It would require complete spoilers to really explain. Even hints might be too much as it would trigger some "ah ha" moments early on.

So all I can say is that I felt bad as I slowly had my powers removed and that I did not like some of the repercussions that occurred. Also, while I do like some of the powers that be, especially Desna, I am not big on Iomade and it grated on my nerves the part she plays in the ML path.

I had started as an angel and after going ML things started to happen I didn't like related to quests and people I knew. EDIT: It is even worse in some ways if Azata as the poor little dragon Aivu

There were a couple of nice moments, like one scene in the commanders room, I did enjoy. I also thought how they did the quest to become mortal again was well done even if it made me regret doing it … but that was I guess part of the point.

That, in itself, shows how well they did it IMO. It can be very hard to make the player really torn over a decision like this. On the one hand once you find out some things going mortal again seems like the best option … yet they make it hard to do so and, to me, there is some cost to doing that beyond simply losing your powers.

Better stop there as probably already said too much.

I think if you enjoy playing games as a normal person who rises above and beyond their "mortal" condition to do great things, then playing the ML path would be enjoyable for you. My good friend is like that. He hated having gods and demons poking around inside him and strange powers. He rejects all that and wants no ties to religion or gods or demons or whatever. So he was all about the ML and embraced it. He was pissed he couldn't do it from the start.

Lastly, was the story boring? Again preference. IMO it wasn't even close to Angel or Azata in regards to story and depth. The Trickster who I put third in story was also better. Some say the Lich is one of the best stories but I don't do well playing evil so don't know. I felt it was a little better than gold dragon but not by much.

I didn't feel like a whole lot happened afterwards. Remember I did rush through to finish the game though so after I did the ML quest, which was good/OK, I mainly focused on just the main quest only to finish up. I didn't really see any special moments though outside of one fun moment I mentioned at the commanders court. EDIT: Keep in mind what I might not find special in regards to ML someone else might consider a high point in regards to maybe some dialogue options and the like. What I don't recall is any special quests or added content. Might have missed some though.

To me the ML is best for those people who prefer to be "human" (i.e. and related human like races) and mortal, and don't want any obligations, ties, or feel like they are somehow in debt or chained in any way to greater powers. Personally I never felt that way on the Angel or Azata paths and felt I was still able to remove the yoke and make my own decisions and life, especially with Azata which is my favorite path by leaps and bounds (although will say Angel path has the best story and most depth IMO). I think the same can be said for the Trickster and Lich paths. The others I am not as familiar with. Definitely not the AEON one though, you pretty much have to give up who you are in that path, and I think the Demon one you are more enslaved to your rage.

Well that was a long ramble … maybe you got something out of it
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February 8th, 2022, 17:24
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
You might like it then. It might help if I at least explain that part of my taste is that I am not a gamer who wants to be another average every day Joe. I live that reality every day of my life

I am not interested in being extra special or the chosen one either, though I don't mind like some others do. What I tend to like is being above average in some ways. Not all powerful but to have some special abilities, powers, and heritage. Guess that is my little fantasy escape desire talking along with a general human desire to want to be a bit special.

That being said I was super excited about the whole ML path at first. I was thinking, this is perfect. I will be a Dhampir, so I get that something special in my heritage and supernatural yet my soul won't be tangled up with mythic abilities and gods (more than that I can't say without massive spoilers). A mere mortal giving the finger to all those greater powers although in truth I like many of those greater powers so its more a figure of speech than any real motive.

The trouble is that to describe what I didn't like really requires knowing a great deal about the plot and how things are handled. It would require complete spoilers to really explain. Even hints might be too much as it would trigger some "ah ha" moments early on.

So all I can say is that I felt bad as I slowly had my powers removed and that I did not like some of the repercussions that occurred. Also, while I do like some of the powers that be, especially Desna, I am not big on Iomade and it grated on my nerves the part she plays in the ML path.

I had started as an angel and after going ML things started to happen I didn't like related to quests and people I knew. EDIT: It is even worse in some ways if Azata as the poor little dragon Aivu

There were a couple of nice moments, like one scene in the commanders room, I did enjoy. I also thought how they did the quest to become mortal again was well done even if it made me regret doing it but that was I guess part of the point.

That, in itself, shows how well they did it IMO. It can be very hard to make the player really torn over a decision like this. On the one hand once you find out some things going mortal again seems like the best option yet they make it hard to do so and, to me, there is some cost to doing that beyond simply losing your powers.

Better stop there as probably already said too much.

I think if you enjoy playing games as a normal person who rises above and beyond their "mortal" condition to do great things, then playing the ML path would be enjoyable for you. My good friend is like that. He hated having gods and demons poking around inside him and strange powers. He rejects all that and wants no ties to religion or gods or demons or whatever. So he was all about the ML and embraced it. He was pissed he couldn't do it from the start.

Lastly, was the story boring? Again preference. IMO it wasn't even close to Angel or Azata in regards to story and depth. The Trickster who I put third in story was also better. Some say the Lich is one of the best stories but I don't do well playing evil so don't know. I felt it was a little better than gold dragon but not by much.

I didn't feel like a whole lot happened afterwards. Remember I did rush through to finish the game though so after I did the ML quest, which was good/OK, I mainly focused on just the main quest only to finish up. I didn't really see any special moments though outside of one fun moment I mentioned at the commanders court. EDIT: Keep in mind what I might not find special in regards to ML someone else might consider a high point in regards to maybe some dialogue options and the like. What I don't recall is any special quests or added content. Might have missed some though.

To me the ML is best for those people who prefer to be "human" (i.e. and related human like races) and mortal, and don't want any obligations, ties, or feel like they are somehow in debt or chained in any way to greater powers. Personally I never felt that way on the Angel or Azata paths and felt I was still able to remove the yoke and make my own decisions and life, especially with Azata which is my favorite path by leaps and bounds (although will say Angel path has the best story and most depth IMO). I think the same can be said for the Trickster and Lich paths. The others I am not as familiar with. Definitely not the AEON one though, you pretty much have to give up who you are in that path, and I think the Demon one you are more enslaved to your rage.

Well that was a long ramble maybe you got something out of it
Thanks! A lot of info, though I understand the problem explaining it while keeping it spoiler free.

I do think I will enjoy Azata or possibly gold dragon the most, just from reading about them. And I'm doubtful I will do more than one complete playthrough at least for a long time, so that's why I'm asking.

I belive my current build is flexible enough to not be locked into having to choose one specific mythic path, so maybe I'll just play it and see how I feel when it's decision time.

Thanks again for your thorough answer!
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February 8th, 2022, 19:23
I've been possibly reconsidering my choice. I might go for wizard, two levels of some kind of rogue and then arcane trickster.

Then I will have all wizard spells and can lower my wisdom score some more and I'm less dependent on going Legend. All I've read about mystic theurge is that it is quite bad unless one chooses Legend.

Or maybe just a pure wizard. So many choices
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February 8th, 2022, 22:12
Originally Posted by SveNitoR View Post
I've been possibly reconsidering my choice. I might go for wizard, two levels of some kind of rogue and then arcane trickster.

Then I will have all wizard spells and can lower my wisdom score some more and I'm less dependent on going Legend. All I've read about mystic theurge is that it is quite bad unless one chooses Legend.

Or maybe just a pure wizard. So many choices
That's the beauty of this game, no?

I'm going for arcane trickster myself this run, as a trickster mythic.

Going mystic theurge next run as a lich/GD
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February 19th, 2022, 09:19
Anyone know if it is worth trying Loremaster as prestige class with wizard? I don't know enough about pathfinder to know of fun and good combos available through the secrets.
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February 19th, 2022, 09:28
I don't know if they've eased the difficulty of the tavern defense fight, but as a level three or four party I only had to reload once.

There were two tips before the fight from the NPCs which echo what people here said: crowd control skills/spells is important, and focus on the arsonists.

I cast Grease in three choke point locations (which I learned about during the first try), buffed everyone quickly and then winged it. Used quite a few healing potions in lulls. Worked well.
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February 19th, 2022, 10:32
Originally Posted by SveNitoR View Post
I don't know if they've eased the difficulty of the tavern defense fight, but as a level three or four party I only had to reload once.

There were two tips before the fight from the NPCs which echo what people here said: crowd control skills/spells is important, and focus on the arsonists.

I cast Grease in three choke point locations (which I learned about during the first try), buffed everyone quickly and then winged it. Used quite a few healing potions in lulls. Worked well.
That sounds about right to me I think many players didn't bother use CCs like grease which would make fight tougher especially on higher difficulty.

I played on normal without any CC but focused on arsonists and it only took 1 reload for me as well.
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February 19th, 2022, 11:49
Originally Posted by SveNitoR View Post
Anyone know if it is worth trying Loremaster as prestige class with wizard? I don't know enough about pathfinder to know of fun and good combos available through the secrets.
Only if you need one of the improved critical Secrets, typically in some sort of battle mage build or a build using ray spells a lot.
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February 19th, 2022, 12:16
Originally Posted by Maylander View Post
Only if you need one of the improved critical Secrets, typically in some sort of battle mage build or a build using ray spells a lot.
Thanks. Hmm. I'll have to think about this.

I'm doing a pure mage and have no need for most of the feats. One thing which seems neat is that I could get the best arcane armor penalty reduction with one feat, but then I'd need to get an armor feat either through one more class or another feat. And my char is not very strong.

Maybe if I do something with rogue to get sneak damage, but I haven't planned for that (except I have high Dex).
Last edited by SveNitoR; February 19th, 2022 at 18:21.
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February 20th, 2022, 04:41
There are quite a few good feats for pure mages as well, but nothing worth grabbing as a Loremaster.

Feats worth considering:
- Improved Initiative
- Spell focus and greater spell focus
- Spell penetration and improved spell penetration
- Spell bolster
- Selective spell
- Extend spell
- Elemental focus and greater elemental focus
- Spell specialization
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March 21st, 2022, 14:09
In case anyone is interested, here's my short review on DLC (contains what some may consider very minor spoilers):

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/…mended/1889980
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