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Default The real issue with Pathfinder: Kingmaker

September 28th, 2018, 13:58
Streamers versed in Pathfinder echoed the same sentiment.

The issue seems to be different: porting PnP rulesets is bound to fail. The format of a PnP game session is too far from a computer session.

Too many fundamentally differences.

In PnP, players are attached to their character, one death and it is over. Changes the approach to fights. Cant work the same with computers that mean to have unlimited lifes. You cant get the feeling of your character's life hanging to a dice roll.

Dice rolls are not even the same. In PnP, dice rolls are personal, the dice roller fail or succeed at them, impression of being cursed or blessed etc
Does not work with computer generated randomization which is external to a player. It does not belong to the player.

Etc

Players must know the rules in PnP in order to get the most of them. In PF, you can ignore the rules, just do stuff, repeat until it works etc

PF the computer product is a product meant for streamers. It is not meant for gamers, it is not meant for players who want a personal experience.

A PnP game is usually involving and engaging.
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September 28th, 2018, 14:49
It was hard enough getting a few people together in the seventies, eighties, and nineties to play a few hours of gaming. I cannot even imagine how difficult a chore it would be to do the same these days.
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September 28th, 2018, 15:02
Stop feeding the troll, folks.

A PnP group gaming session is so completely different than playing a CRPG that it's pointless to compare the two. They are two different experiences.
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September 28th, 2018, 15:56
Originally Posted by Silver Coin View Post
The question isn't irrelevant, because the two games don't exist in a vacuum. You have a choice between the P&P game and the videogame directly based on it. The things the videogame tries to do are done better in the P&P game, making it the superior choice.
That's right, they don't exist in a vacuum. They exist in a world where to get a group of people to play PnP game you have to:
a) know enough people who are interested
b) have all those people agree on a time and place (which, as time goes by is harder and harder. Maybe when you are all retired, but then the first point starts to get in the way)
c) once you arrange a session, keep all those people interested and not on their phones/browsing through the host's book collection/whatever
d) buy all the material needed (rule books, dice, snacks and drinks, etc)

And to play a computer game you have to:
a) own a computer (which you probably already do)
b) own a game
c) have an hour or ten to spare

I personally fail at the first point regarding PnP so unless I want to travel to next town every time I want to play, it's a no-no for me. To play a game I go to GOG or Steam, click buy, wait for it to download and I'm ready to play. I do have a choice, but with so many caveats that what ever advantage PnP has over the video game is lost on inconvenience.

To be fair, I haven't played this game and it could be the worst game ever for all I know, but arranging a PnP session is a net negative in terms of enjoyment for me so the video game is either the same or better.

Off topic: I haven't seen any reviews yet and the game is out a couple of days already. Is there an embargo or something?
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September 28th, 2018, 16:01
I don't think it's possible to embargo reviews after release - that only works if you can make people sign an NDA to get a pre-release copy. It's probably taking a while to play through and review it, with quite a few outlets not considering it a high priority.
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September 28th, 2018, 16:07
Yeah, I know it can't be an embargo at this point but it seems odd. I guess you're right and this isn't a high priority game for the outlets that have to have a review on day one and others are taking their time, which is good since I don't want a large RPG like this reviewed with 10 hours of playtime.
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September 28th, 2018, 16:16
Originally Posted by Ivanwah View Post
Off topic: I haven't seen any reviews yet and the game is out a couple of days already. Is there an embargo or something?
No advance review copies were sent because they made the final build last Saturday. It's a long game too (~40 hours for main quest), so we probably will start too see some reviews only next week for the people who rush through it.

Doesn't matter much though, it will get destroyed by most reviewers. It's everything the modern gamers hates in video game:
- requires planning and thinking (not just during combat)
- lack hand-holding
- complexe character building/rules you basically have to know in advance
- lots of micro-management (buying potions/scrolls, encumbrance rules and more that goes against the "keep everything, never use anything" mentality)
- almost no random-loot (only in random encounters, everything else is hand-placed)
- no level scaling despite the world map being open causing you to stumble on higher level encounters at low levels
- lots of text to read

I personally love it!
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Last edited by azarhal; September 28th, 2018 at 16:35.
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September 28th, 2018, 16:21
Totally agree with azarhal!!
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September 28th, 2018, 16:21
Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
No advance review copies were sent because they made the final build last Saturday. It's a long game too (~40 hours for main quest), so we probably will start too see some reviewer only next week for the people who rush through it.

Doesn't matter much though, it will get destroyed by most reviewers. It's everything the modern gamers hates in video game:
- requires planning and thinking (not just during combat)
- lack hand-holding
- complexe character building/rules you basically have to know in advance
- lots of micro-management (buying potions/scrolls, encumbrance rules and more that goes against the "keep everything, never use anything" mentality)
- almost no random-loot (only in random encounters, everything else is hand-placed)
- no level scaling despite the world map being open causing you to stumble on higher level encounters at low levels
- lots of text to read

I personally love it!
Me too! Well said.
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September 28th, 2018, 16:24
Yeah, that sound's like the game I would enjoy The only thing worrying me is that some people say it's buggy, and I've seen in some let's plays there are skill descriptions missing, for example, but I guess that can be patched. I usually get games when they are a done deal, finished with patching and DLC, but sometimes I get them sooner if I get interested enough.
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September 28th, 2018, 16:27
Originally Posted by Ivanwah View Post
Yeah, that sound's like the game I would enjoy The only thing worrying me is that some people say it's buggy, and I've seen in some let's plays there are skill descriptions missing, for example, but I guess that can be patched. I usually get games when they are a done deal, finished with patching and DLC, but sometimes I get them sooner if I get interested enough.
It's weird but I haven't had any bugs. I had 2 crashes during world map area transitions but I didn't lose any progress. It runs fine on my machine - Windows 10, 1080ti GPU, 16 GB RAM, installed on an SSD and an i5 4690 CPU. Playing @ 4K resolution ultra settings. Haven't had a hitch yet other than those crashes…
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September 28th, 2018, 16:31
Yeah, I played the first PoE near launch and I didn't encounter any game-breaking bugs but I've also seen reports on how buggy it was.
One other thing: is there a way to import custom portraits?
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September 28th, 2018, 16:42
Yes, azarhal posted it somewhere…

https://owlcatgames.com/forums/showt…ortrait-Thread
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September 28th, 2018, 16:43
I have came across a bug which causes the FPS to drop to 21 exactly in some areas! I am on 1080 TI so thats not an issues. I am still on my "trial" play through so bothered yet and will wait for couple of patches before I start my "proper" play.
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September 28th, 2018, 16:43
Originally Posted by Ivanwah View Post
One other thing: is there a way to import custom portraits?
Yup, see the tips&tricks threads, I made a post there explaining how.

As for bugs, I haven't encounter any yet and no crashes for me. It's more stable than POE1 was at release so far.

There is apparently a save issues if you make more than 2 different main characters though (like one of them get delete if you make a 3rd one). I didn't bother trying to see if that was true.
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September 28th, 2018, 16:44
thanks, I missed that.
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September 28th, 2018, 16:45
One of the things that puzzles me is people complaining about the RNG. I can understand people not liking games that rely on RNGs at all, but if you're going to buy an RPG simulating a system built on dice rolls and modifiers, what exactly do they expect? Are there good random numbers and bad random numbers?
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September 28th, 2018, 16:45
I haven't encounter any crash yet either but I only played for 4 hours so far.
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September 28th, 2018, 16:56
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
One of the things that puzzles me is people complaining about the RNG. I can understand people not liking games that rely on RNGs at all, but if you're going to buy an RPG simulating a system built on dice rolls and modifiers, what exactly do they expect? Are there good random numbers and bad random numbers?
Everyone complains about RNG nowadays. It's more about people becoming frustrated when they die or lose because of it, so they blame RNG. At least that's what I've noticed. People want to win at all costs and don't like losing/dying in games.
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September 28th, 2018, 17:02
Originally Posted by TheRealFluent View Post
Everyone complains about RNG nowadays. It's more about people becoming frustrated when they die or lose because of it, so they blame RNG. At least that's what I've noticed. People want to win at all costs and don't like losing/dying in games.
I wonder though, do they seriously believe that the RNG is substandard in some games, because it's giving them "bad" numbers.
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