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Default PoE, D:OS, and WL2: Comparison/Contrast

December 9th, 2017, 04:13
PoE2 better let me turn that camera around! Though it would be even better if I could… you know… zoom in and see the world from the character's perspective?
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December 9th, 2017, 11:09
Originally Posted by NewDArt View Post
You must have played a different PoE than I did
The funny thing is that when I read what I wrote about PoE the first time I played it says: Poor character building, messy combat, classes and stats feel boring etc.

I've no idea what changed in two years, but the experience was hugely different now.
Last edited by TomRon; December 9th, 2017 at 15:43.
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December 28th, 2017, 02:40
Woo I'm in the tiny minority.

First point, for me Dragonfall beat them all three, and I don't care it is quite smaller.

Second point Wasteland 2 DC is my vote, not Wasteland 2 vanilla.

Third point why:

Writing:
DoS has a weird almost crap writing, that's a huge burden, PoE writing has many laborious parts rather tedious, WL2 is solid on that, much better than both, Dragonfall even better.

Combats:
Sure DOS has a cool combat system alas combats design don't follow, too many combats are a groups of enemies thrown somewhere without much design. PoE well I prefer a lot Tyranny combats should I comment more? WL2 has plenty combats with a polished design, many don't use a flat area as two other including DOS, cover system provide a much better tool base to tune the design of each combat and make them different. Dragonfall is even better than all, all combats are well tuned, there's a lot of depth and possibilities.

Party building:
DOS looks complex on that matter until you reach level 10 and dig more the system, then you realize it's very limited because of many aspects, attributes design and skills schools design. PoE is from far the best of all for depth and diversity. WL2 vanilla was a half disaster, party creation was rather interesting but past that not much. But Wasteland 2 DC changes all, with some additions then the party building is very interesting, more than DOS, more or less on par with Dragonfall, but clearly doesn't match PoE on that aspect.

Exploration of a world:
PoE screwed up any single wild area, and failed create a world feeling. DOS didn't even tried create a world feeling only a collection of small areas. Dragonfall tried nothing on that aspect. WL2 is the only one that achieved create a world feeling, at least much better than all other.

Depth of exploration:
PoE did well only for some or most dungeons, and the big town, that's short. For sure DOS is unbeatable for first areas but past that the quality drops hugely, it's not bad from far but other areas don't compare well to most WL2 areas on that aspect. Dragonfall did well but it's missions so can't be compared to other on that aspect.

Quests:
There's good, great and weak for all. DOS has probably the better achievement through the puzzling, quests mechanisms, and choices on how achieve goals. PoE is uneven, WL2 in the same boat. Dragonfall is a bit special with the hub and missions design.

C&C:
DOS is plain awful on consequences, they tried so much allow kill any NpC that to avoid budget skyrocketing all the writing is done to avoid consequences of any actions. This avoid bugs and open to players many paths on how achieve goals. At end it's still a game very weak on consequences. WL2 and PoE don't do a fantastic job in that matter but much better than DOS. Dragonfall multiply small consequences and added a few major with great choices deeply linked to interesting topic, overall the best of the four on that matter.

And so on, but that's not the point, the point is more simple:
1. Dragonfall
2. Wasteland 2 DC
3. DOS
3. PoE

:-)

But don't be wrong I have big hopes for PoE2 I pledged.
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December 28th, 2017, 03:02
Interesting takes. Wasteland 2 was the game I really, really wanted to come out on top. While I enjoyed it, I just can't bring myself to claim to have liked it anywhere near as much as the other two. Perhaps when I finally get back to them I will find that my opinion/perspective has changed, as it apparently has for others upon replay. The game doesn't change (unless patched), but you do, and so your experience does as well. It took years for Arcanum to connect with me, but upon my third install of it, I couldn't stop playing it.

As for Dragonfall, it is in my Steam collection, and one of these days I will get to it as well…
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December 28th, 2017, 03:13
You can play Dragonfall and not the other in the series. It should be around 30H or less so it won't steal too much of your time if you don't replay.

WL2 and Dragonfall are the only one I played twice fully, for WL2 one play was with vanilla and the second with DC, the two other failed, even DOS EE.
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December 28th, 2017, 03:59
I finished Wasteland 2 twice. When it first came out and then the EE edition.

I played DOS twice. Did not finish either time. 2nd play thru only lasted 20 hours.

PoE was only played once. I lasted around 25 hours for that. Have had no desire to try and play it again.

For me Wasteland is the easy winner. I would place Lords of Xulima 2nd on this list. I'm biased though. I gave a lot of $$ to the Wasteland Kickstarter and Wasteland, back in 1988, was one of my favorite games of all time.
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December 28th, 2017, 04:48
I started out with a bias too, as Fallout is my favorite game. I threw some money at all of the Kickstarters, got three copies of WL 2 in it. I hope to have my mind changed next time I try it out.
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December 28th, 2017, 10:14
WL2 was boring as hell after around the halfway mark, at least to me. Combat was great, but that was about it. I especially hated that you had to sit there and watch 2-3 skill bars go up to get to a loot chest with another 3 bullets in it - which was essentially all the game had to offer in terms of map exploration. Terrible skill bloat full of redundancy.

Story started out well enough, but the game turned into repetition soon enough.

Not a fan of PoE as such, but found it a lot more compelling aside from the atrocious combat system.

DOS2 is miles ahead of both, though I agree the writing is sometimes plagued by awkward humor. Also, it has sublime cooperative gameplay which is always a lot more fun than going alone.

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May 11th, 2018, 04:27
Now that POE2 is out, I think it's an appropriate time to bring this thread back and see how people think it compares with the incredible Original Sin 2. I have only fired up POE2 and gone through the character creation and intro sequence, but I am pretty excited to dive in.

However, before I do, I still need to finish OS2. I love OS2 and have 118 hours in it now according to Steam, but life sometimes gets in the way of me making significant progress. I am in the final act and believe I am close, just need to take it home.

How about all of you, any early impressions? Comparisons?
Last edited by rossrjensen; October 16th, 2020 at 13:02.
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May 11th, 2018, 12:40
Hum. Shouldn't we wait for WL3 ?

Anyway it looks like the sequels of the sequels are a big improvement over the sequels.
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May 11th, 2018, 13:46
We shouldn't. WL3 is MMO. Others aren't.
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May 11th, 2018, 14:57
Original Sin (and Original Sin 2) are also MMO. After all both of them also allow co-op. Maybe we should exclude them all and then that will only leave POE.

Originally Posted by joxer View Post
We shouldn't. WL3 is MMO. Others aren't.
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May 11th, 2018, 15:28
No. Those two are not MMOs.
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May 11th, 2018, 16:54
How on earth do you know what style a game favours before it is even released? Wasteland three might have some multiplayer elements, but I don't think it is even close to being an online game, since the second had none of that garbage.

I mean, even if you are simply going by what you see or read, the product isn't out yet, so many elements could change.
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May 11th, 2018, 17:48
He is confused.

Originally Posted by Carnifex View Post
How on earth do you know what style a game favours before it is even released? Wasteland three might have some multiplayer elements, but I don't think it is even close to being an online game, since the second had none of that garbage.

I mean, even if you are simply going by what you see or read, the product isn't out yet, so many elements could change.
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May 12th, 2018, 18:16
Originally Posted by you View Post
Hum. Shouldn't we wait for WL3 ?

Anyway it looks like the sequels of the sequels are a big improvement over the sequels.
For a complete comparison/contrast, for sure. I don't see any harm in gathering early impressions though.
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October 16th, 2020, 06:24
Alright, Wasteland 3 has been out bit now, they have had some time to address bugs and all that, so here I am necro'ing this thread yet again!

Round 1 recap:

I loved them all, but ultimately went PoE>D:OS>WL2.

Round 2 early impressions:

D:OS 2 was, imo, one of the best RPG's I have ever played. Steam has me clocked in the neighborhood of 170 hrs total and honestly, I really don't have any negative things to say about this game. Looks great, sounds great, great characters, actually a very intriguing story this time, retains the fantastic tactical combat. In short, it is right up there for me with Fallout 1 and 2 as my favorite RPG experiences ever. Suffice it to say, I think it will be next to impossible for the other options to surpass it in Round 2. That said, I have had limited time with PoE 2 and WL3 so far. Work and family have really ramped up over the years so my free time is a bit more limited. I recently have been playing WL3 though, and am getting that Fallout feeling. This one is connecting with me a lot quicker than the 2nd installment did, which is a really good sign.

I will follow up later with more in-depth comparisons, but would love to hear your thoughts as well.

P.S. - Unrelated to the topic l, but I bought the EA version of Baldur's Gate 3 and am blown away. Yes, it shares a lot with D:OS2 (which is good, imo), but wow, to me this feels like another legend in the making. Larian is on fire!
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October 16th, 2020, 06:42
DoS: This was my top pick. Combat was outstanding. Loved the unique "look" of the game and the light-hearted atmosphere. Really felt like a totally new, fresh game.

PoE: This one was a big disappointment for me. Was billed as the old school isometric RPG return to glory game. I enjoyed it, but I think expectations were just too high. I thought the combat had issues. Didn't love the new world they created or the story. Probably should have waited to play the improved edition (or whatever they called it) with the DLCs. I remember liking the DLC content more.

Wasteland 2: Probably tied with PoE or slightly below. I thought it was fun. But nothing special.

Ironically. The next versions of these games are kind of the opposite.

I didn't love DoS2. Thought it was kind of boring. Didn't have the same 'magic' for me as DoS1. Put down many time and had to force myself to pick back up. Finally finished during first part of Covid. Clearly I am minority on this one as it was a monster game and huge commercial success.

PoS2 Deadfire: Love, loved it. Fixed everything I didn't like about PoS. Super fun. Thought the Deadfire world and characters were cool and interesting. Many set piece maps I thought were brilliant (the pirate island).

Wasteland 3: Loving this game right now. I think story / writing is best I've experienced in a long time. Might end up being my top pick of this 'sequel list' although I haven't finished.
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October 16th, 2020, 12:41
Interesting to hear your opinion on Round 1 was so different than mine. I think a lot of it may have come down to polish and production values for me. I played the vanilla versions of OS and WL2. I have had limited time with the GOTY/DC cuts of the games, but did come away with a very positive impression from those experiences. From the sounds of it, the story in OS was dramatically improved (one of my original gripes), and I believe all lines were voiced. Little things like that add a lot for me, assuming they are done well. WL2 looked and felt much improved to me as well.

Your opinion/impressions on Round 2:

I am surprised you didn't like D:OS2 after loving the first game! I thought the first game did a couple elements better, particularly with the interplay between your two protagonists and how that worked in co-op play as well. However, I felt OS2 was a massive improvement in almost ever other way! One thing that has stuck with me…I love that the game had a voiced narrator. For whatever reason, that added a lot for me. I am really glad they have continued that approach with BG3. The voice actors they have gotten are really top notch, too.

I am happy to hear your thoughts on PoE2, especially after being disappointed in the first installment (which I loved). Honestly, one reason I have delayed getting into it too much is that my first game's save is on my old computer. I keep intending on transferring it over but haven't gotten around to it. Considering how much I enjoyed the first, I am certain I will enjoy this one as well, though I am less excited about the pirate theme. It seems like a lot of games went with a pirate theme around the time this one came out.

I am also pleased to hear your thoughts on WL3. I am also currently playing. While for many it may be streamlined or "dumbed down" a bit from WL2, for me it is working pretty well. I much prefer the presentation and having the lines all voiced. I agree, the writing so far is really good. While it's still early, I feel like this installment and OS2 were huge improvements over their predecessors. I will need to spend more time with PoE2 before making any judgments there.

Oddly enough, PoE was the last I played from Round 1 and ended up being my favorite (though it was close). Right now it looks as if it will be the last I play from Round 2 as well.
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October 16th, 2020, 13:45
In general I played all the games at release. So I cannot say anything about directors cut editions or anything like that. Only exception is POE2 which I played after the release of the TB mode.

Round one: Imho all of them were lackluster.
I would rank them POE>DOS>WL2 but they are all really close together.
POE: Not a fan of RTwP combat, also had some bugs here and there, one of the worst and most broken german localizations I have seen so far. Also I didn't like the story after maybe the first half of the game. This "gods" thing was never my thing.
DOS: Same Story-wise. The battle against the "void" felt kinda stupid. Combat system itself was fine, but the game was soooooo easy it was ridiculous. To make it more interesting I made my own rule of never use any potions or special arrows. The open world was also a bit fake, as the enemy strength made it pretty clear where you have to go next.
WL: Horrible Character System (gated skills where only specific values made sense, missing retroactivity), broken combat (you basically only decided whom to shoot first, only one choise of weapon made sense and your character had to have that amount of AP to be able to shoot twice. Aimed shot was never a good idea, until close to the end, when you ALWAYS used it). The German translation wasn't broken as in POE, but the translation itself was extremely bad.

Still, all 3 were good games, just not great. Finished all of them.

Round 2:
Now I would clearly rank them as follows:
DOS2>WL3>POE2

I would consider DOS2 as the best RPG ever made so far. It has a great story which in between becomes a bit weird with the gods (as mentioned in the first game) but it brings it down to earth which was very cool. Also the interaction between the characters was great to a level which had never been reached by another game. Character System worked great, combat was very challenging and offered tons of room to experiment. Can't say anything bad about it, no weaknesses, lots of strength and an excellent total result.

WL3: I am still playing it but so far I like it and it is a big improvement over the first one. They fixed the character system as well as the combat, which both arent super great but work decently. While it has its bugs, it works much better than the first game. Story is interesting (so far). I think there could have been more exploration, and I don't like that you are actually pushed towards creating your own characters instead of taking the premade ones with stories. They are worse in general, could leave depending on decisions, which makes it very hard to dedicate one-time-usable books to them or have any sense of a "fixed" group.
Overall a pretty good game so far and much more polished than the first, bug-wise and mechanics wise.

POE2: This one I first skipped because of RTwP combat. Then I bought it on release of the TB mode. I found the character system overwhelming while also not "giving" me much. I found the new additions they made unnecessary. It feels like at the start you are asked between: "You want to play a boring character or an interesting one which will likely suck". I chose the latter option and the TB mode. The TB combat worked horrible, the AI really couldn't cope with it. So I was already not having a lot of fun when I came to the conclusion "ok, my character sucks and I would need to start over and redo this 10 hours" and which point I also decided not to continue. And while the first came has this gods-stuff at the end but starts normal, the story of POE2 is terrible from the start. I mean just reading the text on the back of the box make me cringe "Chase a rogue god over land and sea". Yeah, thanks but no thanks.
I guess if you play it in RtwP mode (and dont mind that system) and don't have issues with the type of story, you might enjoy it. But the story wasn't my cup of tea and the TB implementation was horrible. So definitely last spot of the 3 for me.

So while the first wave has all games pretty close together, the second wave has a very clear first and last spot for me.
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