Risen How it works for people who loved G2+NOTR and disliked G3?

Dasale said:

How many time I died the third time I replay G2+NOTR, very very few and even fewer in parts where G2+NOTR was the hardest for a newbie ie in first chapter and before level 10 and get a guild.

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Of course, that applies to any game. You're always going to die less in an environment that you're already familiar with.

Yes and no, there's a huge difference between first play and third play, for all games there's a difference but that huge it's rare, for me. It's because there's more to learn and the result difference between knowing and not is big.

And about killing group of orcs, that depends when in the game, what orcs and how many. Not being able to kill plenty orcs at same time doesn't mean the game is difficult because you don't need to do so.

At third chapter and third play the game was rather too easy but fun anyway. But ok that depends of many thing like character management and anyway the third chapter ends to be the easier at any play number.

There's isn't any "yes and no" about it. If you're playing a game for the 3rd time, then you already know everything you're going to face, which of course makes it a lot easier. You know exactly where and when enemies are going to attack you, and exactly how strong those enemies are. That applies to any game that isn't randomized.

You feel it as this, fine, you should realize that it's not the truth because you feel it as it. Myself I felt it different for G2+NOTR specifically, you aren't in my mind so I wonder why you want insist that much.

EDIT: Ha well you'll probably afirm that there's no feeling here only objective points. About that, how hard is a game or not involves no feeling? Obviously yes.

Secondly you seem not have understand the arguments so let explain more simply… well ok more clearly or at least I'll try.

Do you mean that all game involve the same amount of learning. Obviously you don't otherwise it would be stupid.

Also do you mean that all game has a difficulty based only on déjà vu? Obviously you don't otherwise it would be stupid.

You have tricks to learn that can make the game a lot easier when you replay and with G2+NOTR there was so many tricks and so many I had learned at third play that at this last play the game was a lot more easy.

For many other games either there wasn't so many tricks to make easier the game, or there was but I didn't learned them. I hope you can see that for this game the difficulty at replay wasn't as much different though only the déjà vu than another game where I learned ton of tricks.

Now that happened to me like this and not for you is a feeling and my own experience, nothing to discuss about.

To conclude I agree with you, no "yes and no", only no to you, on this point.

As good as it is, not everything is roses with NOTR. The boars are just plain f*cking ridiculously overpowered. It almost ruined it for me. Almost.

Although I thought playing as a melee fighter was great, mage in NoTR was just bloody grindingly difficult. The mana requirements for runes was too high (particularly relative to scrolls). It is simply not fun to cast say 2 spells then have to run off, find a bed and sleep because you have finite mana potions and there is no mana regeneration. It's like a warrior only being able to swing his sword twice before he has to sleep.

The LP/skill ratio was also very severe and rather distorted game decisions; hoarding all your potions/dragonroots etc until the end of the game when skills cost 4 or 5 LP to raise by a single point was a bit much for me. I preferred the rather gentler increase in LP requirements implemented by the Community Patch in Gothic 3.

Omega said:

Off topic.

Okay. Gothic Universe was ordered this evening. Universe because it's cheapest (€14,49), even though some of the series was not needed and we'll end up with duplicates. Apart from NOTR, I'm also looking forward to getting the chance of playing G1; from the Gothic series I'm only familiar with G2 and G3.

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Good move. Personally, so far I find Risen to be more like Gothic 1 than Gothic 2, actually. Pity you didn't play G1 first - so many things in G2 makes sense if you do.

So you're suggesting I should play G1 first, and then G2 + NOTR. Makes sense although after reading all the posts here it'll be hard to postpone playing G2 + NOTR. I dunno... I'll finish Risen first. Then I'll play another Risen but the second time I'll be a mage. After that, I think, I'll start with G2 + NOTR. The temptation is just too strong.

Did you play G2 with the classic controls or the tacked on "LMB attacks" controls?

You know, lots of people do themselves a disfavour (is there such a word??) by skipping past G1 because of the clunky controls. That makes me sad, because to me G1 had the most compact and clearest "story" of the Gothics, and it really set the background for the whole world. If one just perserveres a little, and play it exclusively, the controls quickly grow on you and become second nature. I cannot recommend enough, that you try to discipline yourself to give Gothic 1 a go first.

I had personally started off my own Gothic experience, with Gothic 3, just when it was released, but had to stop after a while because of the bugs. Then I went on to Gothic 2, but found there were a lot of references to G1, that i didn't have a clue who these guys were, or what they were talking about.

So I tackled Gothic 1, and after about 20 minutes with it, I had a brief fit of venting my rage on some website about the abysmal idiotic controls. Someone there patiently pointed me to the manual (Which I didn't have, since I got my copy through Gothic Universe), I looked up the controls, wrestled with them for another hour or so , then got used to them, and I never looked back.

In the end, I patted myself on the back that I had perservered, since it really made me understand where the whole Gothic ethos and lore originated, and all the G1 references that had puzzled me in Gothic 2 before, fell into place for me.

Besides that, I had tons of pure fun playing Gothic 1. I look back to the gaming experience I had with it, with much fondness.

..and just btw - so far, Risen reminds me the most of G1 of all the Gothics, when it comes to the political setup of the gameworld, especially.

Gorath said:

Did you play G2 with the classic controls or the tacked on "LMB attacks" controls?

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I presume LMB = left mouse button?

Hm, it's been a while. But I think I had two hands on my keyboard, I don't recall any mouse. Is that possible, is that the 'classic controls'? I remember I highly enjoyed the amount of control I had during combat; it felt as if I was fighting myself (not merely pressing keys).
And G3 was with a mouse, wasn't it?
Combat and having a mouse (instead of a keyboard), it makes me often feel I'm… just clicking a mouse. But hey, my definition of 'user-friendliness' usually is 'having less control'.

RivianWitch said:

So I tackled Gothic 1, and after about 20 minutes with it, I had a brief fit of venting my rage on some website about the abysmal idiotic controls. Someone there patiently pointed me to the manual (Which I didn't have, since I got my copy through Gothic Universe), I looked up the controls, wrestled with them for another hour or so , then got used to them, and I never looked back.

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I'll get a copy of G Universe too. The game itself (talking about G1 here), it doesn't provide you with information about the controls? Do I have to look for a different source?

All you need is a copy of JemyM's FAQ. Learning the controls takes 3*5 minutes. And obviously less if you've already used them for G2.

Gothic has the best setting, probably because PB spent a lot of time on it. It was inspired by the movie Escape from New York.
G2 on the other hand has more polished game mechanics. It's basically the same, but they had more experience implementing it.

Omega said:

I'll get a copy of G Universe too. The game itself (talking about G1 here), it doesn't provide you with information about the controls? Do I have to look for a different source?

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I can't remember off the top of my head if the manual is on disc, but there's definitely not a paper manual. Not only are the way the keys are bound a bit unusual, but you have to use two keys for some actions, such as for instance opening a chest.

However, from your previous post, it seems to me as if you might have played G2 with the G1 controls in any case; - it does come with the option to choose; - and if this is the case, and you are in fact already used to the G1 controls, I shall be decidedly cross with you, if you don't at least play some of Gothic 1!

No, but seriously, people (especially if you are used to mouse or conventional WASD with mouselook and mouse functions) are mainly put off by the controls… Heck, I love the game, and even I was put off by them at first. It's just that they are rather… 'unusual' .

EDIT: Gorath posted while I was posting. Yep, what Gorath said.

I found JemyM's FAQ, thank for mentioning it, Gorath.

I'll definitely play G1, RivianWitch. In fact I'm looking forward to get rid of the mouse and having to use several keys in order to get one result/action. My only prob is: when?

Thanks, to both of you, for replying

Omega said:

I'll definitely play G1, RivianWitch. In fact I'm looking forward to get rid of the mouse and having to use several keys in order to get one result/action.

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The mouse works quite well in G1 actually.

I like to play with the modified controls but using keyboard only.

And, thus far ... Risen feels like 'going home' to G2 ...

JDR13 said:

The mouse works quite well in G1 actually.

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IC. So I'm able to choose? To mouse or not to mouse, that's my question.