Star Wars the Last Jedi, spoilerish discussion

Damian

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There is something I dont understand about the Force Awakens and The Last Jedi and Rey. The force is strong with her, I get that. However I dont understand how she innately understands how to use the force. She is getting memories from the past being given to her somehow in the first movie, but wasnt really shown in the second movie. Perhaps that is how she has somewhat innate understanding on how to use the force?

The there is Yoda destroying the jedi texts citing that Rey already knows how to use the force. Does that mean the future "jedi" will have been shown how to use the force through memories in the future?
 
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Yes I didn't care for the movie. Lots of pewpewing but many things were stupid. From Rey instantly learning how to be a master of light saber combat (when she's only used a staff) and being able to defeat several red guards by herself, to her instantly knowing how to use the Force without any real training.
BB8 saving a situation in the last second the first time is cute, by the third time I was groaning in pain.
Or sending a single XWing to destroy the battleship's defenses, or the stupidly slow bombers (where are all the Y-Wings?), which by the way all but one explode from a single spark.
The forced comedy scenes didn't help either.
 
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She took the books. They can be seen in the falcon in a later scene. Luke indicated that with his death the Jedi will continue so it is presumed that Rey will be the next master Jedi.
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Maybe film three will do a better job explaining her innate ability to use the force.
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Overall I though the movie was really bad; not sure why the pro reviews are opposite. The first movie plot was well worn repeat but had good flow even if a bit of it is not logical but this second film wasn't that enjoyable. Jumangi was a lot more enjoyable :)
 
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I feel like the director shied away from explaining things that I think that the books would have explained, after all George Lucas wasnt senile for a quite a while after releasing those books. Makes me think that I should have read the books instead.
 
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I actually thought Episode 8 was a little bit better than Episode 7, but I can't understand the stellar reviews and positive reception for either of them. They basically just ignore the fact that the rebels "Win" in episode 6 and reboots back to episode 4 but with new characters.

Personally I found the continuation in EU much more logical and interesting, to bad they scrapped it all from canon.

Episode 8 was at least pretty entertaining, and there were some twists that weren't actually expected which was welcome after the copy-paste of the previous one. But there's way to much action and way to little explanations.

We have to destroy that Dreadnought! - We have to disable that tracking device! - We have to destroy that battering ram cannon!

Oh, and a ship travelling at light speed will obliterate everything it passes? In that case, why haven't they used that before, seems like an easy way to destroy an entire fleet at the cost of "just" one cruiser…so many annoyances that just puts the new movies in the "decent action but no more" department.
 
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Not sure how many of you remember the fan reaction to the Empire Strikes Back 20 years ago or so but it mixed, with a lot of criticism. It took a while before it was recognized for being what most see as the best of Star Wars movies. People were nitpicking Empire just as you guys are doing so now.
 
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Not sure how many of you remember the fan reaction to the Empire Strikes Back 20 years ago or so but it mixed, with a lot of criticism. It took a while before it was recognized for being what most see as the best of Star Wars movies. People were nitpicking Empire just as you guys are doing so now.

More like 35ish years ago...

This was my favorite take:

"C’mon Leia, why don’t you take a look around? Can’t you see what Luke is up against? You could have a “nice guy” like him. Instead, you are turning your back on him. Forget that it was Luke that saved you from having your atoms scattered throughout the galaxy. Forget that it was Luke, and not Han Solo, that wanted you rescued from the Death Star detention area. But you don’t need to remember all that, Leia. As long as hot-lips Han is around, who needs Luke anyway?"

I would love to know their Return of the Jedi reaction.
 
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Not sure how many of you remember the fan reaction to the Empire Strikes Back 20 years ago or so but it mixed, with a lot of criticism. It took a while before it was recognized for being what most see as the best of Star Wars movies. People were nitpicking Empire just as you guys are doing so now.

I loved Empire right from the get go - it remains my favourite. While I appreciate nostalgia does colour things, the newer movies seem to be generic action with some magic (the Force) thrown it to differentiate them from 'regular' action. The last jedi was, in parts, better than the first reboot movie, and there were a few parts that I really enjoyed, but overall it just felt bland. And silly. The stupid jokes (like Hux on the 'phone' with Dameron…really, did a 5 year old come up with that?) the pointless jaunt to a casino planet with weird llamas, the 'space bombs'…Leia flying through space like superman…I cringed. My younger brother who has always loved star wars said that this movie killed it for him. I'm not quite there - the potential for Rey and the whiny dark side kid is interesting - but this was poorly executed.
 
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I thought it was a step up from Force Awakens which I found pretty average and even tiresome on a second watch. I would give it a solid 7.5/10 whereas Rogue One I enjoyed quite a bit more.

Or sending a single XWing to destroy the battleship's defenses

That is actually a pretty common tactic. Did you ever play xwing?
 
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I must be weird; I thought rogue one was awful; force awaken was a fun brainless romp; but last jedi was (imho) just awful. It had no flow; most of the choices made by major characters didn't seem to make sense - which really distracted from the story. Last but least the corny parts were just too juvenile (this mostly apply to the lines spoken by the empire as well as their excessively corny names).
 
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I thought it was a 7.5 myself. A few complaints:

One segment I really hated was the visit to the casino planet. I was like warping back to Phantom Menace. Just painful filler material.

did anyone else notice that actions taken by Finn & Po caused more death and loss for the rebellion than all previous movie combined? Pretty much traitorous actions across the board compounded by extreme incompetence?

I have to defend Kyle Ren. Having a cardboard copy of Darth Vader would have been a bad move. Kyle’s character is supposed to show the progression of inner conflict while he is being betrayed by everyone and how it is pushing him darker. I like how he is resolving his inner conflicts by killing all ties. Makes sense. I personally think he is a great character and his whining/tantrums are consistent with his evolvement. Just look at the betrayals of Ray, Luke and Snokes manipulations and humiliations. His character just makes sense and I love the complexity there
 
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I feel like the director shied away from explaining things that I think that the books would have explained, after all George Lucas wasnt senile for a quite a while after releasing those books. Makes me think that I should have read the books instead.

I think that was part of the point. Where Force Awakens was trying desperately to hang on to the past Last Jedi worked hard to throw it all away.

Especially the Jedi and Sith are dead - time to start something new with the force. The force isn't the monopoly of the two orders; they just happen to be the current religions around it.

I actually thought Episode 8 was a little bit better than Episode 7, but I can't understand the stellar reviews and positive reception for either of them. They basically just ignore the fact that the rebels "Win" in episode 6 and reboots back to episode 4 but with new characters.

Personally I found the continuation in EU much more logical and interesting, to bad they scrapped it all from canon.

Episode 8 was at least pretty entertaining, and there were some twists that weren't actually expected which was welcome after the copy-paste of the previous one. But there's way to much action and way to little explanations.

We have to destroy that Dreadnought! - We have to disable that tracking device! - We have to destroy that battering ram cannon!

Oh, and a ship travelling at light speed will obliterate everything it passes? In that case, why haven't they used that before, seems like an easy way to destroy an entire fleet at the cost of "just" one cruiser…so many annoyances that just puts the new movies in the "decent action but no more" department.

all good points, and I found it entertaining too, but where does the European Union fit in?

There were a few things that bugged me with the new movie:

- Luke's portrayal. He seems like a very weak character. They could have done a better job on how he went out.
- Leia's all of a sudden OP Force Powers. If she had powers like that this whole time, how come she never used them before?
- Snoke getting killed; this was a big surprise and I'm hoping he's not really dead because of the next point
- Kylo Ren - He's such a horrible villain. I feel that he is weak in mind and comes off as a spoiled brat to me. Snoke is the better villian, but they killed him off :-/

I still liked the movie very much, it's just I felt there were parts that could have been written better.

Luke's portrayal at least ends his run as a Mary Sue. That there's a second flaw in his character (he was naive and easily manipulated in the first one) is refreshing and understandable disappointment by Luke's fans including Hamill himself.

But it again throws away expectations - not unlike Muadib in the Dune sequels which also disappointed fans - but also connects Luke to his predecessors. Are all Jedi's destined to check out of civilization in their old age and become a crazy old wizard hermit?

All the interesting questions from Force Awakens like Who are Rey's parents? What is Snokes story? What has become of Luke? Who is Phasma? Have all been thrown away deliberately.

The one interesting thing to me is what happens with Hux. Kylo Ren has clearly showed himself to be an unstable leader - Hux had to repeat Ren's order for example for his soldiers to obey them.

Ren is going to on a different path than the Sith so I can see him abandoning the First Order as they abandon him. What happens then to the Knights of Ren?

I thought it was a 7.5 myself. A few complaints:

One segment I really hated was the visit to the casino planet. I was like warping back to Phantom Menace. Just painful filler material.

did anyone else notice that actions taken by Finn & Po caused more death and loss for the rebellion than all previous movie combined? Pretty much traitorous actions across the board compounded by extreme incompetence?

I have to defend Kyle Ren. Having a cardboard copy of Darth Vader would have been a bad move. Kyle’s character is supposed to show the progression of inner conflict while he is being betrayed by everyone and how it is pushing him darker. I like how he is resolving his inner conflicts by killing all ties. Makes sense. I personally think he is a great character and his whining/tantrums are consistent with his evolvement. Just look at the betrayals of Ray, Luke and Snokes manipulations and humiliations. His character just makes sense and I love the complexity there

The Casino planet is universally hated, however it gives some true motivation for the rebellion characters. A giant hole in the first trilogy is the Empire brings order and stability and the rebels just brought chaos, i.e. the empire were good guys.

The casino of war profiteers along with Del Toro's character shows what Rose is really fighting against.

This turns Finn's character around who at the beginning displayed his character to get out of the insane situation he found himself in he had in the last movie, to one where he's willing to become a martyr for the cause.

Yes Poe did show he caused more deaths and that was part of the point too - its also a common theme in history of the recklessness of young soldiers in war vs their aging commanders. Its an important theme for instance in War and Peace.

This was, once again, the director throwing the old away - Luke was considered a hero for blowing up the Death Star and no one once considered the other lives lost or the people on the station. Poe is showing the consequences his actions.

Leia resurrection scene is also universally hated. However, its an obscure joke about why Fisher was braless in the first movie. She said that Lucas told her to go braless because if she didn't and found herself stuck in vacuumless space, her bodies expansion would kill her. So Fisher joked that's how she wanted to die - to be strangled by her own bra in space.

Second point to this, is this answers the question whether Leia was ever trained in force, being that she was "there is another" if Luke failed in his quest to stop Palpateen/redeem his father.
 
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Not a fan of Rose’s character and there is zero chemistry with Finn. The two of them are bumbling morons when they work together. Their traitorous actions with the “decoder” caused 300+ deaths in the escape convoy alone. Finn and Rose are baggage at this point. I liked Finn in the first movie but hated him in Last Jedi
 
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I just saw it tonight, and, quite frankly, I'm shocked that anyone could think that was better than TFA.

I thought it was pretty terrible from start to finish. From the cringe-worthy attempts at humor to the numerous nonsensical (even by SW standards) scenes where they seemed to throw any and all logic out the window.

It's hilarious to me that the most common complaint seems to be how Luke Skywalker was portrayed when there was soooo much more wrong with the movie than that.

I get that some SW fans have a tough time sensing a disturbance in the Force, but I think the fanboys really need to take off their helmets for this one. (Look Obi Wan, two puns in one sentence!)

Not sure how many of you remember the fan reaction to the Empire Strikes Back 20 years ago or so but it mixed, with a lot of criticism. It took a while before it was recognized for being what most see as the best of Star Wars movies. People were nitpicking Empire just as you guys are doing so now.

I can't even begin to fathom how anyone would try to make that comparison.
 
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Well, the only thing that irked me since the first movie was that Rey is on the way to becoming a Jedi master (?) without any sort of guidance or training, so it'll all be self-taught -- although it seems that she didn't even have to teach herself, she just knew how to use the force? Somehow that strikes me as a little far-fetched.

Anyway, now we have a brat on the one side who is completely unfocused and a padawan without a teacher on the other side … Mmm. Then again, the setting could be interesting in its own way, like a society in a post-apocalyptic world that forgot almost everything about the past and has to learn from scratch. Sort of like what we RPG players have to deal with regularly in sequels when all our abilities are reset for gameplay purposes. ;)
 
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Well, the only thing that irked me since the first movie was that Rey is on the way to becoming a Jedi master (?) without any sort of guidance or training, so it'll all be self-taught -- although it seems that she didn't even have to teach herself, she just knew how to use the force? Somehow that strikes me as a little far-fetched.

Somebody must have started from somewhere. The situation happened already in the past.
 
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Well, I loved it. I don't care much for the forced humor and I think we can all agree that the casino planet sequence was pretty awful - and it also reeks of juvenile Hollywood moralising.

Apart from that, though - it was quite powerful as a drama and it actually managed to surprise me in a few ways. Couldn't quite read where it was going, which is always a big quality for me.

The last hour of the film was just pure bliss for a nostalgic SW fan. So much so that it got away with a few stupid moments, including the BB8 bullshit.

My primary interest in Star Wars was always the romantic angle on the conflict between dark and light - and I love the drama involving the two sides trying to turn each other using every trick in the book.

In that way, it was great - and I loved that Leia got so much screen time. Great moments between her and Luke.

Most of the characters are compelling to me. Loved Laura Dern's character - and I Del Toro was a great fit for his part as well.

Yup, I loved it.
 
I agree with everything you said except the Del Toro bit. As soon as he opened his mouth and started stuttering it was like Jar Jar 2.0
 
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I agree with everything you said except the Del Toro bit. As soon as he opened his mouth and started stuttering it was like Jar Jar 2.0

That's a bit harsh. We all know Jar Jar is the worst thing about Star Wars that ever was and ever will be :)

What I liked about Del Toro's character is that he was hard to place, but also that he didn't feel like the usual cop-out bad guy with a heart of gold.

He was ultimately in it for himself all the way without being unnecessarily cruel about it - which is pretty rare for Hollywood.
 
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