Single-Player Games Are 'Finished'

GothicGothicness said:

I think what is most sad… is that people have RL marriages / funerals inside WoW or other MMORPGS… they need to get a grip and realise there is a real world out there.

Click to expand...

In some cases, I agree. In others? No. If two people are leading healthy lives but decide to get married in WoW as a bit of a silly thing - Why should they be judged as "needing to get a grip"?

If youre planning to have events in mmo you need to make sure you have enough muscle to keep unwanted people away. I have played the most punishing mmos including ultima online, shadowbane, darkfall and mortal online and still have lots of faith. The only thing lacking is time to play those games.

Im not a fan of many mmo games but have tried a few.They have there place but its not the same.In Sp your the hero of the story in mmo your just a cog in the huge world witk little story.Now if bioware can pull off a singleplayer based story mmo i.ll probably give it a try.I have a ps3 and xbox 360 and rarely use it online.My headline was just a sight graber to get your attention.To me it just sounds like a suit that wants more money for minimal work.

You don't need to make a story when you can make a game all about capture the flag and grinding for levels and gear.Make the gamers create there own story instead o making one.Pure laziness.

JemyM said:

It showed me how everything I had perceived as "good" and "just" had been completely mirrored. Brutalization, competition, ripping people apart, glorifying predators etc was celebrated and honored. People displaying compassion or care had received derogative terms like "carebear". The game really gave the term "sandbox" a whole new meaning, because people behaved like they were kids in a schoolyard, where bullying and physical force ruled without any inhabitations or signs of adult behavior.

I learned a lot from that experience and I got quite hardened in the process.

Click to expand...

I'm sorry to hear that, Jemy. I had a similar experience, though it was in junior high and high school, combined with what was happening at home. Took me a long time to recover, and in some ways it still shapes my perceptions.

Yours is the first story I've heard about an MMO having a really damaging effect on a person (outside of stories of "addiction"). As I'm sure you know already, the anonymity of being online reduces the sense of the other person as a person, and being in a game (where everything is "pretend") just exacerbates that. Then you add in the competitive element, and alcohol/drugs, and a lot of people end up saying and doing things online that they'd have the conscience or good sense not to, if they were face-to-face. Not to say that some people aren't jerks or assholes in RL, too. Of course some are…

Anyhow, I hope that you have met and will continue to meet a different sort of person, someone who can restore a little of that faith in at least some people. I hate to think that an experience in an MMO could have a permanently damaging effect on your view of people and ability to trust them.

Bah. We're all glorified monkeys that would gleefully kill each other for fun if the odds were good and we wouldn't get caught.

Speak for yourself.

Anderson said:

I'm sorry to hear that, Jemy. I had a similar experience, though it was in junior high and high school, combined with what was happening at home. Took me a long time to recover, and in some ways it still shapes my perceptions.

Yours is the first story I've heard about an MMO having a really damaging effect on a person (outside of stories of "addiction"). As I'm sure you know already, the anonymity of being online reduces the sense of the other person as a person, and being in a game (where everything is "pretend") just exacerbates that. Then you add in the competitive element, and alcohol/drugs, and a lot of people end up saying and doing things online that they'd have the conscience or good sense not to, if they were face-to-face. Not to say that some people aren't jerks or assholes in RL, too. Of course some are…

Anyhow, I hope that you have met and will continue to meet a different sort of person, someone who can restore a little of that faith in at least some people. I hate to think that an experience in an MMO could have a permanently damaging effect on your view of people and ability to trust them.

Click to expand...

The lasting effect on me wasn't so much of a damaging effect as it was an eye opener.
I did have a very rose colored view on people prior to this, and I might have been exposed to this later. It did made me reform my political and even some religious views I had, but it also contributed to make me learn about myself. In my studies in psychology/sociology/anthropology I have often let that time inspire me in my work.

And yeah, I am now very aware that the environment contribute to social structures. SWG had a double effect, first the traditional impact of not being face-to-face, second SWG's hardcore mechanics that kept one type of personality in the game while making others leave.

The real damaging effect was the old addiction issue and it's effect upon my economy and acting as a placeholder instead of moving on with my life. Worse, introducing the game to my wife was a contributing factor for now being single.

On the good side it have made me appreciate kindness more.

dteowner said:

Bah. We're all glorified monkeys that would gleefully kill each other for fun if the odds were good and we wouldn't get caught.

Click to expand...

Your statements in general make a lot more sense now

Remember not to assume everyone is like you, though.

JemyM said:

The lasting effect on me wasn't so much of a damaging effect as it was an eye opener.
I did have a very rose colored view on people prior to this, and I might have been exposed to this later. It did made me reform my political and even some religious views I had, but it also contributed to make me learn about myself. In my studies in psychology/sociology/anthropology I have often let that time inspire me in my work.

And yeah, I am now very aware that the environment contribute to social structures. SWG had a double effect, first the traditional impact of not being face-to-face, second SWG's hardcore mechanics that kept one type of personality in the game while making others leave.

The real damaging effect was the old addiction issue and it's effect upon my economy and acting as a placeholder instead of moving on with my life. Worse, introducing the game to my wife was a contributing factor for now being single.

On the good side it have made me appreciate kindness more.

Click to expand...

While people are morons in general - myself included, I don't think it's healthy to judge them based on their behaviour in a fantasy environment. It's a game, and in a game you play.

Just like in PnP RPGs, where some people enjoy playing evil characters - because it gives them an opportunity to play around with concepts that wouldn't work in real life. Doesn't mean they're necessarily evil, and especially not if they're too young to understand themselves. Many MMOs feature players way too young to understand the concept of beneficial behaviour. Doesn't mean they're antisocial or that they'd behave like that, when faced with reality.

I'm sure you're aware of this to an extent, being a bright person, but it seems you've had a really bad experience which might have skewed your point of view slightly.

The real damaging effect was the old addiction issue and it's effect upon my economy and acting as a placeholder instead of moving on with my life. Worse, introducing the game to my wife was a contributing factor for now being single.

Click to expand...

Sounds a lot like what happened with my ex and I, based on WoW.

In some cases, I agree. In others? No. If two people are leading healthy lives but decide to get married in WoW as a bit of a silly thing - Why should they be judged as "needing to get a grip"?

Click to expand...

If they are doing it as a bit of a silly thing ? I don't think they'd mind if the wedding was interupted by man eating orcs either? that would be kind of silly too. Either way it is an mmoRPG interupting a funeral or wedding is something which could totally happen in a mmoRPG world.... so I really don't get the problem.

Brutalization, competition, ripping people apart, glorifying predators etc was celebrated and honored. People displaying compassion or care had received derogative terms like "carebear". The game really gave the term "sandbox" a whole new meaning, because people behaved like they were kids in a schoolyard, where bullying and physical force ruled without any inhabitations or signs of adult behavior.

Click to expand...

Again this a RPG people can play whoever they want... that they don't have a sign of adult behavior in the game means nothing.. they are playing a role.

It is scary how some people take this kind of game so seriously they don't truly understand it is just fiction and some people don't take it seriously at all and just do it for a good laugh.

There are text based games which ban everyone which doesn't stay in the roleplaying context though... and as mentioned several times they are faaaaar superior to any graphical MMORPG.

There are text based games which ban everyone which doesn't stay in the roleplaying context though… and as mentioned several times they are faaaaar superior to any graphical MMORPG.

Click to expand...

In your opinion

GothicGothicness said:

that they don't have a sign of adult behavior in the game means nothing.. they are playing a role.

Click to expand...

It means everything in relation to the topic of this thread.

Multiplayer games can never provide the experience it hopes to provide, no matter the glorious graphics and exceptional mechanics it will stink when you place people in there, which I remember everytime seeing a cool screenshot only to be disappointed when finding out it's from a MMO. Therefore it sucks that multi-player have became so attractive to the industry that they rather make multi-player games than single-player games.

In your opinion

Click to expand...

Multiplayer games can never provide the experience it hopes to provide

Click to expand...

Are you also a graphics whore JemyM or could you imagine playing a text-based MMO ? if you seek a roleplaying experiance they are far superior... if you like DArtagnan seeks graphics instead of quality roleplaying.... it is of course inferior.

But from a pure roleplaying and for that matter mechanics point of view nothing can compare to the text based... that is fact and not just in my opinion!

GothicGothicness said:

Are you also a graphics whore JemyM or could you imagine playing a text-based MMO ? if you seek a roleplaying experiance they are far superior… if you like DArtagnan seeks graphics instead of quality roleplaying…. it is of course inferior.

But from a pure roleplaying and for that matter mechanics point of view nothing can compare to the text based… that is fact and not just in my opinion!

Click to expand...

Why must you separate graphics and quality roleplaying/mechanics?

That's called a lack of game design imagination - that is fact and not just in my opinion!

JemyM said:

It means everything in relation to the topic of this thread.

Multiplayer games can never provide the experience it hopes to provide, no matter the glorious graphics and exceptional mechanics it will stink when you place people in there, which I remember everytime seeing a cool screenshot only to be disappointed when finding out it's from a MMO. Therefore it sucks that multi-player have became so attractive to the industry that they rather make multi-player games than single-player games.

Click to expand...

People can only do what they're allowed to do within the structure of the game.

The key is a game with the proper consequences, and the proper structure.

It's doable, or so I believe. I certainly have ideas for how to handle that

That's called a lack of game design imagination. Why must you separate graphics and quality roleplaying/mechanics?

Click to expand...

If someone managed to create a game which manages to combine both these two, I will be his or her greatest supporter, but none has managed to come anywhere close. We simply have to look at reality the way it stands today.

GothicGothicness said:

Are you also a graphics whore JemyM or could you imagine playing a text-based MMO ? if you seek a roleplaying experiance they are far superior… if you like DArtagnan seeks graphics instead of quality roleplaying…. it is of course inferior.

But from a pure roleplaying and for that matter mechanics point of view nothing can compare to the text based… that is fact and not just in my opinion!

Click to expand...

My issue with textbased experiences is that they tend to be pitch black in those and you are likely to be eaten by a grue.

DArtagnan said:

People can only do what they're allowed to do within the structure of the game.

The key is a game with the proper consequences, and the proper structure.

It's doable, or so I believe. I certainly have ideas for how to handle that

Click to expand...

With the issues real law is facing I have my doubts to let a computer do it.

GothicGothicness said:

If someone managed to create a game which manages to combine both these two, I will be his or her greatest supporter, but none has managed to come anywhere close. We simply have to look at reality the way it stands today.

Click to expand...

Reality is that YOU think that written text representing something happening, is actually superior to having it displayed on screen - with the limitations that represents - now or in the potential future.

Personally, I think written text is as far removed from something actually happening as it can get in a game.

I can't get excited by that, really.

You're saying that because you can WRITE anything, anything can happen - and as such, that's better.

That's fine, but it's really only your opinion.

I LARGELY prefer having things displayed and audible, with as many as my senses engaged as possible - where it makes sense. So, something for the eyes and ears - to make my sense of immersion as powerful as it can get.

Now, WITHIN that kind of gaming environment - I'd like as much freedom as possible.

If I had to choose between a completely static and totally linear environment, with absolutely no freedom as a player, THEN I'd agree with you - and I would prefer text-based games. But that's not what games are like, and there are many multiplayer games that have enough of what I want, to completely undermine the value of text-based freedom. Especially when you consider that in any modern multiplayer game, there is the possibility of text-input and voice chat. You could basically supplement with every bit of imagined reality as you wish, simply by saying "/me does X" or "X happens" - and you'd have the advantage of that which you so crave.

Games like Neverwinter Nights or Lord of the Rings Online do A LOT to create a roleplaying environment, and your rigid and stubborn insistence on pure text is something you will have to accept as purely subjective, if you want to understand where other players are coming from.

JemyM said:

With the issues real law is facing I have my doubts to let a computer do it.

Click to expand...

A computer does what it's told.

Real law has reality to consider, where the worst that can happen to a bad game design is that it will fail, and the game won't work. So, experimenting is a bit easier, you might say.