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November 17th, 2021, 09:11
I'm assuming easy-mode would make it much easier to get through the game.

Although I only felt those skill puzzles really come up in a few rare situations and mostly for side quests in AoD.
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November 17th, 2021, 09:44
It's also worth noting that AoD/DR were 10-hour games. Whether the playthrough was successful or fell off at some point because the player did something wrong, it wasn't the end of the world to restart the game with a different build/approach, correcting previous mistakes.

In AoD you could be a gladiator or a merchant or anything in between and and all playthroughs could be beaten without major issues just by acting accordingly to those backgrounds.

I'm curious how are they going to approach Colony Ship in that regard, but I hope they keep loyal to their own vision. A difficulty slider could work indeed, as long as it doesn't impact the experience for those who enjoy the challenge and their choices having actual consequences beyond "your alignment shifts towards chaotic" or "X NPC dies", which most of the time I couldn't care less about, especially since the writing is so cringe in most games. Actual consequences that change the outcome of the story radically or can lead you to actually lose the playthrough is where the excitement is at, for me.
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November 17th, 2021, 16:30
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
It's also worth noting that AoD/DR were 10-hour games. Whether the playthrough was successful or fell off at some point because the player did something wrong, it wasn't the end of the world to restart the game with a different build/approach, correcting previous mistakes.

In AoD you could be a gladiator or a merchant or anything in between and and all playthroughs could be beaten without major issues just by acting accordingly to those backgrounds.

I'm curious how are they going to approach Colony Ship in that regard, but I hope they keep loyal to their own vision. A difficulty slider could work indeed, as long as it doesn't impact the experience for those who enjoy the challenge and their choices having actual consequences beyond "your alignment shifts towards chaotic" or "X NPC dies", which most of the time I couldn't care less about, especially since the writing is so cringe in most games. Actual consequences that change the outcome of the story radically or can lead you to actually lose the playthrough is where the excitement is at, for me.
The game seems a bit longer to me having only played Chapter 1, but this isn't a 100+ hour game like Pathfinder.

Regarding the difficulty, I would assume the hard difficulty will be hard like it was in DR.
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November 17th, 2021, 17:24
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
I'm assuming easy-mode would make it much easier to get through the game.

Although I only felt those skill puzzles really come up in a few rare situations and mostly for side quests in AoD.
Did you try playing as a praetor? It was a presented as a hybrid Fighter / social guy. The entire playthrough was a skill puzzle. Put a bit too many skills on combat and you won't be able to move forwards because of a social skill check and you will be too weak to fight it through. Don't put enough combat skills and you won't succeed for those few necessary fights. This is not a tactical game. You basically win if you have the right stats or are lucky, your options during a battle are very limited.

Yeah, it's about making choices. Except it's a false freedom. Pick what the devs consider as the wrong choice, you are just blocked one way or another. Why give the option then ?

Sorry, I prefer playing game that have true meaningful options instead of just trying to figure out what the devs expect you to do just so you can move forwards. Decisions should lead to different paths.
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November 17th, 2021, 17:26
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
The game seems a bit longer to me having only played Chapter 1, but this isn't a 100+ hour game like Pathfinder.
Social paths are pretty short. For combat paths, it depends how much reloading you are ready to endure
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November 17th, 2021, 18:37
I'm hoping this one is a bit longer than some of their other games, yet even if not I'm sure I'll enjoy it. While I do tend to like longer games a bit more, short and simple works just as well if done correctly.
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November 17th, 2021, 19:46
Originally Posted by vanedor View Post
Did you try playing as a praetor? It was a presented as a hybrid Fighter / social guy. The entire playthrough was a skill puzzle. Put a bit too many skills on combat and you won't be able to move forwards because of a social skill check and you will be too weak to fight it through. Don't put enough combat skills and you won't succeed for those few necessary fights.
What would be the alternative?

In any game you have to figure out the right skill values. In Fallout 1 the weapon skills go to 200, iirc, but 75 is enough and anything above 100 is overkill. In Fallout 2 skills go to 300, but the non-combat checks never go above 75-125.

In most games speech/social skills are a bonus, so if you fail the check, just kill' em all. In AoD it's not the case, but short of making the game easy and keeping the checks at 3-4 to ensure you pass no matter what, I'm not sure what else we can do.

This is not a tactical game. You basically win if you have the right stats or are lucky, your options during a battle are very limited.
No such thing as the right stats. I'll be more than happy to post player-submitted builds with stats all over the place. STR 5-6 instead of 8-9, Dex 4 (with over 200 kills), no defense skills, etc.

Sorry, I prefer playing game that have true meaningful options instead of just trying to figure out what the devs expect you to do just so you can move forwards. Decisions should lead to different paths.
They most certainly do.
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November 17th, 2021, 21:32
It's just the typical case of "the game is too hard and I can't figure out" I'd say. Then the game gets downvoted. See it all over Steam, not only with AoD.
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November 17th, 2021, 22:12
Originally Posted by VDweller View Post
What would be the alternative?
The alternative is offering different paths that are actually doable. Yes, one can have be more rewarding than the other, or more difficult, but it should be possible to do both. Instead, in AoD, you actually enforce one path. Sure, we have decisions to take, but in the end, not taking the one you judge ok just leads to a quick death more often than not. So it's a false choice. It's an illusion and it just leads to frustration.

Let us roleplay. Play a role. And not force us to take one.
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November 17th, 2021, 22:26
Originally Posted by vanedor View Post
Did you try playing as a praetor? It was a presented as a hybrid Fighter / social guy. The entire playthrough was a skill puzzle. Put a bit too many skills on combat and you won't be able to move forwards because of a social skill check and you will be too weak to fight it through. Don't put enough combat skills and you won't succeed for those few necessary fights. This is not a tactical game. You basically win if you have the right stats or are lucky, your options during a battle are very limited.

Yeah, it's about making choices. Except it's a false freedom. Pick what the devs consider as the wrong choice, you are just blocked one way or another. Why give the option then ?

Sorry, I prefer playing game that have true meaningful options instead of just trying to figure out what the devs expect you to do just so you can move forwards. Decisions should lead to different paths.
I believe I tried every path till the end except Thief as it was only implemented fully later and by the time I got to it I had played through the game at least 10 times.

It's not false freedom as you say. The hybrid/fighter approach is the hardest difficulty in the game. It's like playing Pathfinder WOTR on Unfair difficulty and complaining you would have to min/max. Of course you do, that is the point.

@Nereida played WOTR on a difficulty that for him was easy, but when I was playing it, I found to be impossible.

In AoD, I played it so much, I started learning all of the intricacies of both battle and non-battle quests, so playing hybrid characters became easier. I started with a pure mercenary fighter and had no issues with battles at all. I played as a trader and had no issues at all. It's only the hybrids that are difficult in the game, and even then the main quest is certainly doable without going crazy. The side quests and God endings are amazingly difficult to achieve unless you know the meta, because that's how they were meant to be.
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November 17th, 2021, 22:56
Originally Posted by vanedor View Post
The alternative is offering different paths that are actually doable.
Everything is doable if you have the skills.

Instead, in AoD, you actually enforce one path.
Not the case at all. Here's one example:

http://images.akamai.steamuserconten…5523B8EE33473/

Very average stats: STR 5 DEX 9, CON 5, PER 8, INT 6, CHA 7
Dagger/Dodge 9, Critical Strike 7, Streetwise/Alchemy 6, Impersonate 5

Here's another one:

http://images.akamai.steamuserconten…72C023EB61C0E/

STR 7 DEX 8, CON 6, PER 8, INT 7, CHA 5
Hammer 8, Dodge 10, Critical Strike 6
Persuasion 8, Lore 8, Crafting 6, Streetwise 5, Trading 4, Lockpick 4 - that's a truckload of non-combat skills for a character with 155 kills.

Sure, we have decisions to take, but in the end, not taking the one you judge ok just leads to a quick death more often than not. So it's a false choice. It's an illusion and it just leads to frustration.
We don't decide which path leads to glory and which path leads to death; we set the checks and difficulty. The rest is up to you. Obviously, a first-time player would struggle, whereas a more experienced player would be able to cover more skills, but that's normal.

A first-time player wouldn't be able to dual-class successfully in BG2 either.
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November 17th, 2021, 22:59
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
@Nereida played WOTR on a difficulty that for him was easy, but when I was playing it, I found to be impossible.
I'm a her! Nitpicks aside, it wasn't easy at all, but it was doable with game knowledge (I know Pathfinder and SRD3.5 rules inside out) and some efficient tactics (some will say "cheesy, such as turn manipulation and Dimension Door abuse being some of the recurring ones). Unfair is not something I would recommend anyone to play unless they have a mindset for it, and I don't thnk most people would find it fun at all even then.

Possibly that's why I love AoD and DR and others can't stand it. It's fine, really, tastes are valid, all of them. If it's up to me, I hope they don't change much, but I'm one voice of many.
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November 17th, 2021, 23:45
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
I'm a her! Nitpicks aside, it wasn't easy at all, but it was doable with game knowledge (I know Pathfinder and SRD3.5 rules inside out) and some efficient tactics (some will say "cheesy, such as turn manipulation and Dimension Door abuse being some of the recurring ones). Unfair is not something I would recommend anyone to play unless they have a mindset for it, and I don't thnk most people would find it fun at all even then.

Possibly that's why I love AoD and DR and others can't stand it. It's fine, really, tastes are valid, all of them. If it's up to me, I hope they don't change much, but I'm one voice of many.
Apologies. Hard to tell online and automatically and erroneously assume gamers are men.

My mistake.
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