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July 15th, 2015, 15:11
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
The glowing sentences are written by other players, and most NPC's don't have much to say, however quite a few of them will take actions and do stuff. But NPC dialogue is not the strongest point to be sure.
That's wrong, I'm afraid. Sentences, so far, are written by the developers. I know, because I play exclusively offline.

I know that players can add them, though, as they did in Demon's Souls.

But ok, NPCs are weak you say.

As already mentioned read the description of that sword you find, or any other item, that is where the bulk of the information about the world is.

It'll not tell you clearly how the items descriptions are connected though you'll have to figure that out yourself. A problem is that if you don't find 2 items, which would link the story to the third item, it might appear that the text is completely taken out of context and not related to anything else.
What description? Are you saying I have to read item descriptions to get the story?

You can't be serious?

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July 15th, 2015, 15:28
I have been playing Neverwinter Nights Diamond on the PC this week and … well, I just really love the game. It is funny, I only picked it up because I'd not played many RPGs in the 90s and wanted to get the flavor before playing KotOR when it hit PC in 2003 But it now remains one of my faves, even though I know many consider it's main campaign uninspired.

I am playing a Male Sorcerer Neutral Good so I can romance Bastilla … erm, Aribeth The henchmen thing can still feel a bit 'gamey' in terms of mining their stories for XP, but oh well

Since I picked up an iPad (the Air 2) again, I am also playing Legend of Grimrock. Not far enough to really have an opinion on the port, but it works well enough I suppose. Next I think I will pair up my dual stick (Mad Catz) controller to remind myself of why FPS games still suck on mobile …
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July 15th, 2015, 15:32
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
I have been playing Neverwinter Nights Diamond on the PC this week and … well, I just really love the game. It is funny, I only picked it up because I'd not played many RPGs in the 90s and wanted to get the flavor before playing KotOR when it hit PC in 2003 But it now remains one of my faves, even though I know many consider it's main campaign uninspired.

I am playing a Male Sorcerer Neutral Good so I can romance Bastilla … erm, Aribeth The henchmen thing can still feel a bit 'gamey' in terms of mining their stories for XP, but oh well
Are you playing the main campaign, then?

I'm actually doing that too, I just forgot to mention it here.

I use the PRC pack, though, as I find the core content a bit too limited.

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July 15th, 2015, 15:38
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Are you playing the main campaign, then?

I'm actually doing that too, I just forgot to mention it here.

I use the PRC pack, though, as I find the core content a bit too limited.
Cool I am perhaps a bit weird in that I *never* use fan patches .. back from my heavy game reviewing days, I just wanted the pure experience. And to this day I will always play pretty much only the 'max dev patch' version of a game.

Interesting thing - NWN has aged SO much better visually than so many shooters of the late 90s / early 2000s. Sure some of it is that the game isn't tremendously visually impressive to start … but Widescreen, anyone?
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July 15th, 2015, 15:41
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Cool I am perhaps a bit weird in that I *never* use fan patches .. back from my heavy game reviewing days, I just wanted the pure experience. And to this day I will always play pretty much only the 'max dev patch' version of a game.
I can understand the position, but I'd say it's not the ideal approach given that NWN is all about community content. The very best of the game is provided by other players, and the PRC is a very impressive addition to the game, imo.

Interesting thing - NWN has aged SO much better visually than so many shooters of the late 90s / early 2000s. Sure some of it is that the game isn't tremendously visually impressive to start … but Widescreen, anyone?
I agree.

It's not a "pretty" game as such, but it's fine and sort of endearing. I actually prefer it to NWN2 in many ways.

I think the interface and controls are far better than NWN2, for instance.

I also happen to think it's miles ahead of BG/BG2 in almost every way except for the pre-rendered backdrops.

But I guess I'm more or less alone in that around here.

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July 15th, 2015, 16:02
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I can understand the position, but I'd say it's not the ideal approach given that NWN is all about community content. The very best of the game is provided by other players, and the PRC is a very impressive addition to the game, imo..
Totally get what you're saying - and I will happily play external modules, but when I play the story I have found that I prefer the 'way it was written' … even in 'broken' games like VtM: Bloodlines and ToEE

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
It's not a "pretty" game as such, but it's fine and sort of endearing. I actually prefer it to NWN2 in many ways.

I think the interface and controls are far better than NWN2, for instance.

I also happen to think it's miles ahead of BG/BG2 in almost every way except for the pre-rendered backdrops.

But I guess I'm more or less alone in that around here.
haha I find that in terms of my overall love of the games I would go with BG2->NWN->BG->…->NWN2 … I still have a hard time getting the controls comfortable in that game!
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July 15th, 2015, 16:04
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Totally get what you're saying - and I will happily play external modules, but when I play the story I have found that I prefer the 'way it was written' … even in 'broken' games like VtM: Bloodlines and ToEE
Fair enough, I won't stop you. But I should probably add that they've balanced the campaign around established D&D rules - and the PRC is sticking to those same rules

haha I find that in terms of my overall love of the games I would go with BG2->NWN->BG->…->NWN2 … I still have a hard time getting the controls comfortable in that game!
One of these days, I really have to give BG2 yet another shot. My problem is my OCD obsession with carrying a character from BG over to BG2, which means replaying the first game one more time

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July 15th, 2015, 16:12
[QUOTE=DArtagnan;1061343734]Fair enough, I won't stop you. But I should probably add that they've balanced the campaign around established D&D rules - and the PRC is sticking to those same rules /QUOTE]

hmmm - worth checking out. I am not that far in - still early enough in Chapter I that I wouldn't be against a restart. It is never a bad time to abandon silly meaningless rules anyway

Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
One of these days, I really have to give BG2 yet another shot. My problem is my OCD obsession with carrying a character from BG over to BG2, which means replaying the first game one more time
For me I sometimes think has to do with 'play order'. As noted, NWN was my first RPG (other than some hours in Diablo) since the late 80s … then I played NWN, KotOR, BG2, Gothic 2 … etc. So I played sequels before original games in many franchises and think that might taint my perception.
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July 15th, 2015, 16:15
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
For me I sometimes think has to do with 'play order'. As noted, NWN was my first RPG (other than some hours in Diablo) since the late 80s … then I played NWN, KotOR, BG2, Gothic 2 … etc. So I played sequels before original games in many franchises and think that might taint my perception.
Diablo?

I guess I should mention one of the best modules for NWN, if not THE best:

Lord of Terror

http://neverwintervault.org/project/…lo-campaign-16

If you enjoyed Diablo, you HAVE to try that one

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July 15th, 2015, 16:20
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
Diablo?

I guess I should mention one of the best modules for NWN, if not THE best:

Lord of Terror

http://neverwintervault.org/project/…lo-campaign-16

If you enjoyed Diablo, you HAVE to try that one
Good - one to stay away from then! Actually my opinion of Diablo in '96 (ir was a gift) kept me away from the RPG genre until the announcement of KotOR
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July 15th, 2015, 16:24
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Good - one to stay away from then! Actually my opinion of Diablo in '96 (ir was a gift) kept me away from the RPG genre until the announcement of KotOR
I trust you've evolved a bit, since then

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July 15th, 2015, 16:41
Funny, I wanted to replay NWN ever since I saw it stand in my GOG Galaxy library last week but I'm way too spread out right now so I passed on it, your posts are not helping me keeping that resolution.

I need to finish ME2, but I look at the icon on my desktop and I'm not really feeling like playing the game. I had a Fallout 3 and XCOM playthrough going but I put that on hold too (probably soon joined by ME2). I'm still playing SWTOR, I'm doing the Inquisitor (Sorcerer) story which I don't like (playing the nutjob Sith is not my thing) but the class destroy everything in crappy gear so I should be done soon.

I added The Elder Scrolls Online to that list but that can wait. Everquest 2 is getting its expansion locked servers next week that I want to try. On top of that, I still have to tackle some of my kickstarters (Legends of Eisenwald, Dead State and soon Antharion).
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July 15th, 2015, 16:43
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
That's wrong, I'm afraid. Sentences, so far, are written by the developers. I know, because I play exclusively offline.

I know that players can add them, though, as they did in Demon's Souls.

But ok, NPCs are weak you say.



What description? Are you saying I have to read item descriptions to get the story?

You can't be serious?
Hahaha, well what can I say, I agree with you that it is strange. But that's where they put the story… don't ask me why. Maybe they were too lazy to make a interface on consoles for reading notes or some such ? Audio logs would probably not work in a medieval theme…. the game has a lot of flaws when it comes to interface and comfort, I am the first one to agree on that.
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July 15th, 2015, 17:16
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
The glowing sentences are written by other players, and most NPC's don't have much to say, however quite a few of them will take actions and do stuff. But NPC dialogue is not the strongest point to be sure.

As already mentioned read the description of that sword you find, or any other item, that is where the bulk of the information about the world is.

It'll not tell you clearly how the items descriptions are connected though you'll have to figure that out yourself. A problem is that if you don't find 2 items, which would link the story to the third item, it might appear that the text is completely taken out of context and not related to anything else.
Are you saying that DS games does not spoon feed you the lore hence DArtagnan is having problems? That's just below the belt
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July 15th, 2015, 18:26
Originally Posted by GothicGothicness View Post
Hahaha, well what can I say, I agree with you that it is strange. But that's where they put the story… don't ask me why. Maybe they were too lazy to make a interface on consoles for reading notes or some such ? Audio logs would probably not work in a medieval theme…. the game has a lot of flaws when it comes to interface and comfort, I am the first one to agree on that.
Well, if there really is a story tied to item descriptions, then at least I have something to go on.

Thanks

Actually, Lord of the Fallen has some kind of audio log system, IIRC, and that worked pretty well. Ok, the logs themselves were crappy, but the system was ok

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July 15th, 2015, 18:27
Originally Posted by lostforever View Post
Are you saying that DS games does not spoon feed you the lore hence DArtagnan is having problems? That's just below the belt
Clearly, there are only two ways to deliver lore.

1. Spoonfeed it.
2. Don't have it, but let players make it up based on opaque item descriptions.

Cool, thanks!

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July 15th, 2015, 22:46
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I also happen to think it's miles ahead of BG/BG2 in almost every way except for the pre-rendered backdrops.
I must have played a different game.

But I only played them in single-player, and I never made it further than the original campaign in NWN. Compared to the IE games, it was mind-numbingly boring.
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July 15th, 2015, 22:50
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I must have played a different game.

But I only played them in single-player, and I never made it further than the original campaign in NWN. Compared to the IE games, it was mind-numbingly boring.
I'm talking about the engine and the ruleset, not the campaigns

The original campaign was, indeed, pretty bad.

But you should check out Hordes of the Underdark - which is very good. I also quite like Shadows of Undrentide.

Again, though, the best stuff is from the community. Even if most of it is crap or average, there are dozens of super high quality modules out there.

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July 15th, 2015, 22:50
The NWN combat is not nearly as strategic as the full party "control" you get in BG/2. But, I prefer the 3rd edition rules in NWN over BG/2 ADD.

Dart beat me to it.
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July 15th, 2015, 22:55
Originally Posted by DArtagnan View Post
I'm talking about the engine and the ruleset, not the campaigns
Ah ok, in that case I have to agree, even though I wasn't particularly impressed with the Aurora engine.

It would have been interesting to see how that engine handled a full party-based system in a single-player campaign. What made the campaign so disappointing to me was the single character + henchman format. It didn't feel much like D&D to me.
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