The Cesspool

Prime Junta said:

Having done some real and irreparable harm both to myself and to other people — people I would much rather not have harmed — by flying into screaming rages (both online and especially offline), I've come to realize that simply venting my aggression isn't the answer either. There are other ways. They're neither obvious nor easy, but they're there, and I try to find and apply them as best I can.

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Well said.

gas. said:

The best way, with people you care about, is to tell them why you are angry with them — focus on not what they do, but how what they do affects you.

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Yes, it's one of the better ways.

This reasoning doesn't really apply to forums because, let's be honest, we rarely care about the next poster on any emotional level.

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You don't? I sure do. There are people here whom I know better than many I interact with IRL on a daily basis. I care about them in many ways that span a big part of my emotional range.

And to go further, most posters wouldn't listen anyway and still post some nonsense so the only option is to put it blunt and direct. Almost every forum I've been on frowns at this, but by not doing so is how you have longstanding feuds with different posters for years. It's unhealthy and poor policy.

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And being blunt and direct does *not* lead to longstanding feuds between different posters? That ain't my experience.

Years ago, I spent several years on alt.atheism. Usenet. Totally unmoderated. Totally anarchic and raucous. Some of the posters there would put most of you to shame — Stix, for example. Compared to him, I'm a rank amateur, but here's some of my work from that time anyway, [ http://groups.google.com/group/talk.atheism/msg/10d82ab3e721aec8 ] to give you a feel for what that forum was like.

You know what? We had gobs of longstanding feuds between posters. They not only went on for years, they sometimes resulted in people setting up fucking websites denouncing each other. I hear somebody might even have gotten sued. *That* was drama.

In other words, gas., you're fulla shit. Repressing shit leads to long-standing feuds. Being blunt and direct and offensive leads to long-standing feuds too. People are people, on-line and off. They respond the same way in both realms. It's just easier to be a dick when you're behind a keyboard.

gas. said:

This is passive-aggression defined. Look at the laundry list of long standing issues everyone threw in the other poster's face one he stepped out of the "safe zone". This is a long remembered checklist of infractions that the other users were too afraid to deal with at the time...

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It wasn't because of fear they "didn't deal with it" though. The only reason the problem didn't get solved was because of what Rith referred to as Squeek crawling back to his hole. You try sorting things out with someone who refuses to talk to you about what you want sorted out. I've tried to done that in relationships (...friendship relationships) and it doesn't work. I'd might as well try to sort problems out with a wall.

Also, Rith was always this agressive with Squeek. What do you suggest he should do differently to deal with this situation?

Besides, we've had situations where users get angry at other users for one reason or another (usually because they don't even try to understand their point of view but instead they quote them out of context just to try and make them look bad) and at these times they get rather agressive (not passive-agressive, agressive). And the other user gets agressive back. And they call eachother an idiot back and fourth for a page or two (and, as it's been pointed out, just because they don't use curse words doesn't mean the situation isn't hostile). Both refuses to awknoledge that they've done anything wrong, oh no, the conflict is a result of the other side being an idiot.

That kind of climate doesn't breed reconciliation. The only thing you might get out of the whole process is that both sides stops fighting because they're tired of it.

All in all you end up with more fighting because of the 'blowing off steam' than you get for suffocating it before it breaks out for real. Mostly because your option leads to debates getting cut out because fights break out all the time.

Übereil

gas. said:

Then he is quivering in the fear of sounding like an actual person instead of the castrated persona most put forth?

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Hard to castrate my lady parts but you go for it if you'd like.

So you two believe it is better, more healthy for both the individual and community for members to hold grudges for stretches of time only to explode on other users at a later date once they feel they're sufficiently within reason to do so? This is passive-aggression defined. Look at the laundry list of long standing issues everyone threw in the other poster's face one he stepped out of the "safe zone". This is a long remembered checklist of infractions that the other users were too afraid to deal with at the time, so they file them away for a time when they get angry enough to use them to their advantage in a completely irrelevant situation. You believe that is better than pointing it out when it occurred, having a squabble and then moving on once it's done? If so, you have my pity.

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This isn't a grudge that's been festering unexpressed. I don't feel the situation is irrelevant. Squeek hasn't posted here for months after being argued down honestly and leaving with his tail between his legs, then suddenly he reappears when he has a gang of hostile posters from another site to defend him, which is cowardice and turned my stomach.

I'm just tired of playing little word games with people. I don't like Squeek. I made an attempt to get along with him at one time, but it was pointless. That's just our history. There's nothing repressed about it. I'm sure he feels the same about me. I've certainly never been afraid of him. I was merely expressing my honest opinions about him. The worth of his ideas and the merit of his arguments is not equivalent to the amount of crap one has to endure to talk to him.


As far as other posters in this thread, I certainly don't have a closed mind, as this silliness is not something that provides any real evidence of their value as intellectual companions. Most of this thread has been interesting and diverting, and I welcome the chance to get to know people who have something to say beyond u r faggotz.

gas. said:

This reasoning doesn't really apply to forums because, let's be honest, we rarely care about the next poster on any emotional level. And to go further, most posters wouldn't listen anyway and still post some nonsense so the only option is to put it blunt and direct. Almost every forum I've been on frowns at this, but by not doing so is how you have longstanding feuds with different posters for years. It's unhealthy and poor policy.

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I think that's a very interesting point. I would add, though, that you have to live yourself afterward. I've been on-line a long time, a lot longer than most, and seen my share of flame wars. At this point, I don't need the grief.

But maybe I should have been more honest.

The truth is you're just too much of a pain in the ass most of the time, Rithrandil. You're obviously stupid, and you're also quick to go on the defensive. And then you get ugly. No thanks.

Magerette is a woman, and I don't tell women to go fuck themselves, no matter how much they deserve it.

Prime Junta can be too much work to deal with, otherwise he would actually be interesting.

Dte: Whitey? Until I came here I hadn't heard that expression in forty years. Your insights into California, race and politics would fit in perfectly with All In The Family, but that show was cancelled (a long time ago).

You're right, that does feel better!

Squeek said:

I think that's a very interesting point. I would add, though, that you have to live yourself afterward. I've been on-line a long time, a lot longer than most, and seen my share of flame wars. At this point, I don't need the grief.

But maybe I should have been more honest.

The truth is you're just too much of a pain in the ass most of the time, Rithrandil. You're obviously stupid, and you're also quick to go on the defensive. And then you get ugly. No thanks.

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Cool, glad you think I'm stupid since I actually know how to quote a source. Maybe if I keep annoying you, you'll stay gone for good this time, milksop.

Magerette is a woman, and I don't tell women to go fuck themselves, no matter how much they deserve it.

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Very subtle. Patronizing, but subtle.

Hey, since this is the "let it all hang out" thread, here's my tuppence.

I like Rith. He's a bit excitable, very sharp, has an inquisitive mind, and is very quick to dig into stuff and then collate it into some kind of coherent whole. He occasionally jumps the gun a bit and says or does stuff that's perhaps not thoroughly considered. He also sort of endearingly clings to his Republican identity despite being totally pissed off at what happened to the party since Goldwater. (I have hopes he'll see the light about Goldwater too, eventually.)

I especially like Mags. She's sort of like Mt. Vesuvius — calm, green, basking in the sunlight, but emits a wisp of smoke every once and again. And occasionally she erupts and levels entire civilizations.

Dte is a pig-ignorant, pig-headed, pig-stubborn running-dog fascist incapable of grasping concepts more complex than "us 'ns 'n them 'ns." Thing is, he cheerfully acknowledges all of this. That's why I like him too, although he often drives me nuckin' futz.

And Squeek… Squeek is, I feel, a deeply and probably permanently damaged human being. Much of the time he's cheerful, intelligent, and has interesting things to say. Then some things touch him in his wounds, and he turns into a sneaky, squeaky Wormtongue type, always suggesting and insinuating but very, very rarely coming out openly and saying whatever it is he's suggesting — and, when called out on it, he denies it all and sometimes disappears for months. I like the first Squeek. I used to have a strong dislike for the second Squeek, but nowadays I just feel sorry for him, try not to get into conversations with him, and hope that he'll eventually manage to sort out the stuff that has damaged him so badly.

What the fuck is this faggotry? Pages upon pages about the posting style of some member?

Joseph Goebbels said:

What the fuck is this faggotry? Pages upon pages about the posting style of some member?

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Fuck you. Updated my josephgoebbels.txt.

And Squeek… Squeek is, I feel, a deeply and probably permanently damaged human being. Much of the time he's cheerful, intelligent, and has interesting things to say. Then some things touch him in his wounds, and he turns into a sneaky, squeaky Wormtongue type, always suggesting and insinuating but very, very rarely coming out openly and saying whatever it is he's suggesting — and, when called out on it, he denies it all and sometimes disappears for months. I like the first Squeek. I used to have a strong dislike for the second Squeek, but nowadays I just feel sorry for him, try not to get into conversations with him, and hope that he'll eventually manage to sort out the stuff that has damaged him so badly.

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It's true, there is a dichotomy about Squeek that is emotionally charged. I consider him an adult, however, and have chosen to treat him as such. We all have damage and baggage, and I don't consider his to entitle him to bully me or anyone else. Nonetheless, there is a charming and valid side to the man, and perhaps some day that will indeed come to the fore.

That was an interesting link you posted earlier to the atheist's forum. Rather more mature and competent than the level of flaming so far here.

Prime Junta said:

I like Rith. He's a bit excitable, very sharp, has an inquisitive mind, and is very quick to dig into stuff and then collate it into some kind of coherent whole. He occasionally jumps the gun a bit and says or does stuff that's perhaps not thoroughly considered. He also sort of endearingly clings to his Republican identity despite being totally pissed off at what happened to the party since Goldwater. (I have hopes he'll see the light about Goldwater too, eventually.)

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I argued for increased taxes and cap and trade in class the other day. It made me feel weird.

This was a, like, pretty amusing and totally educative thread up until it developed into group hugs and emo discussions about hurting people in screaming rages and why this guy hate da tasty mousie and why that girl can't cut herselfy self to upload nasty torture videos to the intertubies, meh.

And, like, totally LOL at you guys and gals and trannies saying Codexia is a cesspool while taking sneak shots at each other. Hai hai, really super duper civilized, ye are.



*sigh* I always get late to da parties.

Übereily-chan.

For those that don't go there, this thread is a nice example of what is both addictive and ultimately unhealthy about the codex. It has a unique capacity of stimulating negative feelings.

Ahhh, this thread takes me back to junior high school.

Nyapocalypse said:

And, like, totally LOL at you guys and gals and trannies saying Codexia is a cesspool while taking sneak shots at each other. Hai hai, really super duper civilized, ye are.

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This place is more like a swimming pool, though. Even if someone occasionally takes a piss in it.

Me, I like the emo faggotry. I hung out a bit at the Codex a few years ago, but left pretty soon for the same reason I eventually got tired of alt.atheism -- that Armor of Macho Strutting +5 you need to get by there just got too heavy and itchy and constricting.

Nyapocalypse said:

This was a, like, pretty amusing and totally educative thread up until …

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You mean when it was all about you? And how evil it is over here and teh awesum intelligentz over there and all? Cuz that was the boring part to me.

Just sayin.

but don't let me interrupt you

@ magerette

Yay, that too. But i meant it more like in, say, when you guys were talking about how evilz and totally unintelligent we were and stuffies when it was one of your plebeians who was creating forum posts baaaaaawing about other comunities and thingies. That was, like, real mature. Yay.

And totally aaaaaaaw about that image. Have a brownie, nya.

@ Prime Junta

"that Armor of Macho Strutting +5"

*twitches ears*

The… what? If you were to need that i would have survived half a second, top. The only thingie you need is not taking yourself seriously and to remind yourself most of the idiots insulting you are no life bastards who think Torment is deep. After reading this thread i can notice why that would be a problem to most of the regulars of Watchlandia, though. Aw, air and darkness! People over the internet is being mean to me! Let's ban them so we can all have our flimsy egos intact for another half an hour. Meh, and nya.

This is internet, guy. Troll someone, get a cyber boyfriend, watch bad music videos on JEWtube, and totally not care once you switch the stuffies off. I don't really understand people who take internet forums like sirius business.



Edity Edit:

"This from a guy who denies the holocaust, supports terrorism and sometimes expresses opinions Charlie Manson would agree with. And that's just for starters."

Awww, is he talking about you? Forget what i said and have a brownie. Can i be your friend now? *puppyeyes*

Vhoa, this is like a trip down nostalgia road. Kinda reminds me of the official Quake boards of old .

Prime Junta said:

And Squeek… Squeek is, I feel, a deeply and probably permanently damaged human being. Much of the time he's cheerful, intelligent, and has interesting things to say. Then some things touch him in his wounds, and he turns into a sneaky, squeaky Wormtongue type, always suggesting and insinuating but very, very rarely coming out openly and saying whatever it is he's suggesting — and, when called out on it, he denies it all and sometimes disappears for months. I like the first Squeek. I used to have a strong dislike for the second Squeek, but nowadays I just feel sorry for him, try not to get into conversations with him, and hope that he'll eventually manage to sort out the stuff that has damaged him so badly.

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This from a guy who denies the holocaust, supports terrorism and sometimes expresses opinions Charlie Manson would agree with (and that's just for starters).

Truth be told, I do have a few issues. Thank God they're not your issues, though!