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Default Skyrim - Paid Mod Status Update(Re-Opened)

April 27th, 2015, 00:44
One piece of good news is that all this kerfuffle has inspired me to 1) download and play Nehrim and 2) realise SureAI have a "Donate" button to express my appreciation for the pleasure.
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April 27th, 2015, 00:45
Originally Posted by sibroc View Post

On a general note, I also always wonder, are (adult) people really that alienated from reality and free market? No one works as a freelancer, or as an aspiring entrepreneur or, at least WORK somewhere in the REAL WORLD?
Well this misses the ballpark by a few miles. "I can't be bothered to actually do something unless I get paid for it" is actually the attitude that reeks of entitlement. Regardless of that, this is not simply about money or compensation. The point that I and many others have lamented is the eventual loss of the spirit of people coming together to create and enjoy a hobby for the sake of passion alone. Modding has done just fine without the involvement of "entrepreneurs." Modding was a beautiful escape from such materialistic concerns, offering an environment of creativity and hobbyist enthusiasm.

Creating content out of passion and the enjoyment of the act itself rather than pursuing riches is a wonderful thing that will vanish. Not everything needs to be so cynically driven by capitalism and money. What about art? What about the passion involved with creating something wonderful just for the joy of doing it?
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April 27th, 2015, 00:54
You can still be passionate about things and want to get paid. As an artist and content creator myself, the whole dream is to be able to make your original work and make a living just from doing it. Nobody wants to work a 9 to 5 if they're a content creator to support themselves. So I hear what sibroc is saying, loud and clear.

There's going to be some real success stories from this and I am thrilled to see who makes the first million-selling mod.

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April 27th, 2015, 00:56
Originally Posted by Nerevarine View Post
…snip…Creating content out of passion and the enjoyment of the act itself rather than pursuing riches is a wonderful thing that will vanish. Not everything needs to be so cynically driven by capitalism and money. What about art? What about the passion involved with creating something wonderful just for the joy of doing it?
What about them really? What’s stopping anyone wanting to do just that from continuing? It reminds me of the secluded monk argument. Our chastity is only as good as our distance from temptation.
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April 27th, 2015, 01:02
It's obvious who hasn't bothered to read the previous 6 pages of cons to this development.

Collaboration is the name of the game in 99.9% of modding. Rarely does anyone put out content with any substantial depth alone. Falskaar is, frankly, the only exception I'm aware of. This entire thing makes collaboration MORE difficult, not less. And if you want to know why, try reading the full thread.

Practically noone is against modders being rewarded for their time-consuming efforts. What people are against is this bungled attempt by Valve to profit (and profit well) while helping in no way and introducing a great deal of stress and roadblocks to collaborative efforts.

I guarantee you that you would have never seen all this vitriol if Steam had instead implemented a donation system. But of course that doesn't maximize profits.
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April 27th, 2015, 01:04
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
As an artist and content creator myself, the whole dream is to be able to make your original work and make a living just from doing it. Nobody wants to work a 9 to 5 if they're a content creator to support themselves. So I hear what sibroc is saying, loud and clear.
That's fine, and I see the positives for some people. But don't you see how the money will affect things, and alter the relationships, attitudes and goodwill within what has been a collaborative community?
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April 27th, 2015, 01:14
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
You can still be passionate about things and want to get paid. As an artist and content creator myself, the whole dream is to be able to make your original work and make a living just from doing it. Nobody wants to work a 9 to 5 if they're a content creator to support themselves. So I hear what sibroc is saying, loud and clear.

There's going to be some real success stories from this and I am thrilled to see who makes the first million-selling mod.
Great post.
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April 27th, 2015, 01:19
Originally Posted by sibroc View Post
I tried to follow some of the story in the Steam fora but it requires much more patience than my 40+ year old self can muster. Sometimes I swear I feel that the internet is consisting entirely of entitled 15 year olds.

It seems that as long as there is “free stuff” to enjoy there is comradery abundant for the people that provide it, but alas, should some of the creators decide that their work should be compensated then the entitled “community” will feast on their greedy corpses.

On a general note, I also always wonder, are (adult) people really that alienated from reality and free market? No one works as a freelancer, or as an aspiring entrepreneur or, at least WORK somewhere in the REAL WORLD? Because from the comments (strangely and sadly in here too) that does not seem to be the case. I am truly perplexed by the internet drama that has spawned from this (yeah, I know, I shouldn’t be surprised by anything by now…)
Well then if this is your point, maybe the people doing the mods should pay the creators of the game then first for using their back bone to make their mods.

Or better yet maybe companies like Bethesda should sue modders for doing their job for them in some cases.

Edit …..
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April 27th, 2015, 01:38
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
You can still be passionate about things and want to get paid. As an artist and content creator myself, the whole dream is to be able to make your original work and make a living just from doing it. Nobody wants to work a 9 to 5 if they're a content creator to support themselves. So I hear what sibroc is saying, loud and clear.

There's going to be some real success stories from this and I am thrilled to see who makes the first million-selling mod.
Really???

How is modding a game making your own original work? It is taking something that someone else has made and changing it in some way.
Defined "the act of rewriting programming code in a video game in order to change the appearance or performance of the software."

Anyways…
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April 27th, 2015, 01:44
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
You can still be passionate about things and want to get paid. As an artist and content creator myself, the whole dream is to be able to make your original work and make a living just from doing it. Nobody wants to work a 9 to 5 if they're a content creator to support themselves. So I hear what sibroc is saying, loud and clear.

There's going to be some real success stories from this and I am thrilled to see who makes the first million-selling mod.
I thought you weren't going to post in this thread anymore.
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April 27th, 2015, 01:45
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
It's obvious who hasn't bothered to read the previous 6 pages of cons to this development.

Collaboration is the name of the game in 99.9% of modding. Rarely does anyone put out content with any substantial depth alone. Falskaar is, frankly, the only exception I'm aware of. This entire thing makes collaboration MORE difficult, not less. And if you want to know why, try reading the full thread.
Well as far as I am concerned, I’ve read all six pages and I indeed encountered a lot of hypothetical cons (and even more ethical stances and sentimental views). That of course does not mean that I have to automatically agree with them. Delving to other sources I think that the Forbes article sums up the valid loose ends of the current system rather nicely (if a little naively).

There is nothing there that will not get sorted in time and by the self-weaning of the “community”. It will initially create raffle, drama and discontent but people who are good at what they do, talented, reasonable and have a passion for this will find a way to collaborate, have fun and maybe even make some money.

The rest will also find some way to do whatever they want. The world is big and full of wonders…

Practically noone is against modders being rewarded for their time-consuming efforts. What people are against is this bungled attempt by Valve to profit (and profit well) while helping in no way and introducing a great deal of stress and roadblocks to collaborative efforts.

I guarantee you that you would have never seen all this vitriol if Steam had instead implemented a donation system. But of course that doesn't maximize profits.
Perhaps this will help shed some light why a donation system cannot work:

A “Mod” is work done on IP property belonging to someone else and with tool-assets created by someone else. If someone wants to get paid for a Mod then this can only happen with the explicit license of the owner. It’s pretty simple actually.

Interestingly enough, although everyone sees the potential problem of using assets that belong to someone else (ie another modder), this concern does not seem to extend to the assets and tools that are created-provided by the developer, when a donation system is proposed.

Originally Posted by CelticFrost View Post
Well then if this is your point, maybe the people doing the mods should pay the creators of the game then first for using their back bone to make their mods.
See above. Modders do use the tools and assets under the explicit license that they do not use the outcome commercially. (Though smart internet savvy people find ways of monetizing indirectly - like from traffic to certain web sites).

Thus the need for a paying system that will keep both IP holders-developers-publishers and modders happy.

The perpetual unhappy of course are a lost case…
Last edited by sibroc; April 27th, 2015 at 02:29.
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April 27th, 2015, 01:59
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
You can still be passionate about things and want to get paid. As an artist and content creator myself, the whole dream is to be able to make your original work and make a living just from doing it. Nobody wants to work a 9 to 5 if they're a content creator to support themselves. So I hear what sibroc is saying, loud and clear.

There's going to be some real success stories from this and I am thrilled to see who makes the first million-selling mod.
Fluent, my friend, let's talk about the law of attraction. We're both familiar with it, and we both subscribe to it.

One tenet of the law of attraction - and one thing that attraction experts from Alan Watts to Wayne Dyer have said is that you put your passion first. Never do it with the expectation of money, because the money will never come. Create from your heart without thinking about money and then the money will flow to you. Whether it's through your creative work or from some other way will always depend on the situation. But it'll happen.

Mod authors have been making incredible work for years and years now with no expectation of getting paid. And some of the best have been rewarded by being hired by big companies like Bethesda or CDPR, or they've gone on to make their own successful games. What everyone's saying here is that that spirit is gone now. It's sucked out by the pursuit of the nickels and dimes from the iPhone microtransaction mentality that has finally invaded a space that was full of passion until just recently. When we could, most of us happily gave tips. The mod authors deserved it, and those of us that could afford it would happily keep giving 'coffee money' as genuine gratitude for long hours spent and a job well done. It was money freely given. It felt good to give, and I'm sure it felt good to receive, because it meant something. It was given and received with gratitude.

Now, this capitalist mafia shakedown is likely to invade every aspect of modding. A lot of people on this side of the argument have talked about "innocence lost", and what they mean is, once you introduce money, you can't take it back out again. It's an expectation. It's a Pandora's Box.

The soulless pursuit of money is the opposite of a joyous life. What does one of the guys in The Secret say? You go after the money and you might get rich but you'll never be happy.

Any artist that becomes an artist (or writer, or musician, or anything else) in a quest to get rich is a fool or they're naive. It never happens that way. But maybe, if they pour their heart into it with no thought of money, the money will come. And regardless, they've made the best art when they don't think about money. My writing only got to the point where I'm happy with it when I stopped thinking about a paycheck. But that's just me.

I've rambled too long repeating what other people have said here with more brevity. I just hope this makes sense.

This is Bethesda and corporate parasite behavior. And that's all it is. There's no pouring sunshine on it. It's a cash grab.

They're taking advantage of us, and they're taking advantage of some talented artists.
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April 27th, 2015, 02:05
Aubrielle, well said and that about sums it up doesn't it.
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April 27th, 2015, 02:11
Originally Posted by CelticFrost View Post
Aubrielle, well said and that about sums it up doesn't it.
Thank you. It was what I felt - it's what I think we all feel - and I'm sorry I couldn't have made it more succinct…
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April 27th, 2015, 02:17
One thing do find very interesting about the time of this the near release of Shards of the Order. Even more funny is comes only two months after Bethesda asked them for an interview about the game.

Now I would pay for this game as it is a completely different game from Skyrim.
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April 27th, 2015, 03:19
Originally Posted by zahratustra View Post
Let me repeat it once again: Beth WAS making money from mods in an indirect way already. Skyrim wouldn't have been so successful without mods. And then some corporate assholes decided that it wasn't enough and introduced this clumsy scheme disrupting modding community in the process. Time will tell if Beth will be punished or rewarded for this decision.
Some data that could maybe put things in perspective:

Skyrim Sales stats:

3.500.000 units in 48 hours, 20.000.000 units sold in 26 weeks.

Skyrim Sales By Platform
XBox 360 59 %
Playstation 3 27 %
PC 14 %

Mods available only on PC…
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April 27th, 2015, 03:33
Originally Posted by sibroc View Post
Skyrim Sales By Platform
XBox 360 59 %
Playstation 3 27 %
PC 14 %
Where did you get this stat? IIRC most sales were on playstation, not on xbox. But I might be remembering it wrong…
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April 27th, 2015, 03:44
Originally Posted by Aubrielle View Post
This is Bethesda and corporate parasite behavior. And that's all it is. There's no pouring sunshine on it. It's a cash grab.They're taking advantage of us, and they're taking advantage of some talented artists.
I completely agree Aubrielle. This all about the corporate parasites, and not about supporting the modders. If it was they would not only get 25% of the profits.

As Drithius said on the first page this is only the beginning of a unified paid mod marketplace, and if it's not Steam some other developer/publisher will try now.
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April 27th, 2015, 03:46
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
You can still be passionate about things and want to get paid. As an artist and content creator myself, the whole dream is to be able to make your original work and make a living just from doing it. Nobody wants to work a 9 to 5 if they're a content creator to support themselves. So I hear what sibroc is saying, loud and clear.

There's going to be some real success stories from this and I am thrilled to see who makes the first million-selling mod.
So…..

Tell me fluent, I load close to 250 mods, most of them pretty minor and many are graphical mods. Now, they don't all work together nicely unless I really work on it and make mods to make them work. The game plays fantastic now though….

Now, with the new swords for 3 dollars and stuff like that how much do you think it would cost to mod my game like I have? Or, how do I even know if it will work with the mods I have and will it kill my game? That's not even getting into the fact many mods "borrow" other peoples work and call it their own within their bigger mod…

This totally kills the modding scene and I think people that think this will entice a few to make simply stunning mods are forgetting that those will be far from the norm, just looking at what is available now.

I'm really not seeing much of an upside to a 3 dollar sword.
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April 27th, 2015, 03:57
I found two more links to add the topic from Forbes Contributor Paul Tassi.

Link - http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertco…tive-disaster/
Link - http://www.forbes.com/sites/insertco…-for-everyone/
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