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April 2nd, 2018, 14:19
Hello.
I want to discuss with you about future of f2p games. There is some strange trend to put inside all f2p games some microtransactions that give an advantage for players who pay. Terms of games tell that RMT is prohibited so I am asking if I buy something from the official store for real money there is not RMT?
It is sad true that now there is no MMORPG where you can just log in and play like everybody fair. Bots are everywhere. Buying gold or items from other players are prohibited because of RMT but official store - it does not matter.
Just take a look on website https://mmoauctions.com
I think this is the main problem of MMORPG. If somebody does not resolve this - for me MMORPG is in a straight way to die. What do you think? Will classic MMORPG die because of this and for eg. mobile devices and mobile MMO?
Do you know any MMOs that are not having this problem? Or do you see opportunity in RMT to make MMOs huge, strong and great again?
Last edited by nicekitten; May 28th, 2018 at 10:33.
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April 3rd, 2018, 01:30
I don't see this problem in DDO. Yes there's stuff you can buy like resurrection pots, but most is totally optional, especially if you play with a group. I've mainly bought extra content packs and extra characters. The game actually rewards you with enough points that you can buy most of the extra content without spending any real money. I should mention that the totally free content is massive.
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April 3rd, 2018, 10:49
Games work like sports bets.
If you want to profit, play singles! Stacking pairs will make you spend tons of $.

As you've obviously accepted to be ripped off by MMOs but ask if there is at least one different, there is to my knowledge only one MMO equal towards everyone where you can buy skins only but not skills. Everything is free, you don't have to pay for any content except for dress-up-barbie. You might see bots in "training" rooms, but in live games never.
It's League of Legends, so go there.
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April 3rd, 2018, 11:57
I have never seen a Bot in DDO!!
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April 3rd, 2018, 13:37
I wonder if there will be an amazingly helpful URL posted.
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April 3rd, 2018, 15:28
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
It's League of Legends, so go there.
Learn your genres, already, joxer!

MMORPG (Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game)
MOBA (Multiplayer Online Battle Arena)

League of Legends is a MOBA.

DDO is a MMORPG.

Sure, they both have respawning monsters and no hairworks but that doesn't make them the same thing!

@nicekitten The future of MMORPGs looks bleak, to me. Maybe Bless, maybe Albion, probably neither. F2P is a scam so just avoid them.
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April 3rd, 2018, 15:38
What genres. All MMOs are MMOs. I don't know why are people inventing genres for it when it's all about gamemodes. Some are pvp arenas and some pve arenas, yes, but some are grinders, some are sims, some are random generated content, some are hybrids, etc. But it's only a game mode, not a genre - MMO is a genre itself.

And now you'll say actual videogames have crpg, trpg, jrpg, etc. Okay, you got me there.
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April 3rd, 2018, 20:16
Isn't guild wars an MMO where you can just log in and play (no pay as it goes)
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If you want totally free muds are still free
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April 3rd, 2018, 20:42
Well, the "Massively" is about player limit per server rather than popularity. LoL might have millions of players but only 10 to a server per game round, which is hardly massive when FPS games like Battlefield 1942 had 64 player servers.

A MOBA might have 10 players per server but MMORPG would have 5000!

Someone who is looking for a MMORPG isn't looking for a MOBA.
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April 3rd, 2018, 21:42
You mean someone looking to get scammed.
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April 3rd, 2018, 22:12
Out of about twenty people that I used to play mmo's with, only two currently still play any. I know personally I'll never play another game with quite the same zeal I had for both Everquest one and two. I do some testing for a game every month or so, and three hours of that satisfies me for at least a month.

Being free to play doesn't seem to make a difference.
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April 3rd, 2018, 23:14
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
I don't see this problem in DDO. Yes there's stuff you can buy like resurrection pots, but most is totally optional, especially if you play with a group. I've mainly bought extra content packs and extra characters. The game actually rewards you with enough points that you can buy most of the extra content without spending any real money. I should mention that the totally free content is massive.
I always have a hard time buying the argument that the paid content is optional and doesn't affect the gameplay. Sure I can also play DOS2 with only wands and not drink a single potion. It's possible but no fun.

As it is a hard line to draw when something is optional, I just avoid anything with paid in-game content. Except maybe cosmetic stuff. And even then the game should be reaaaally good. There are enough quality games for me to choose from.
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April 3rd, 2018, 23:57
F2P pretty much killed the MMO genre for me. Just too many in your face "spend $$$ now" things. They link it in all over. I have tried ESO 3 times now and each time the F2P aspect killed it.

Was playing TSW Legends again as it was a favorite game. I was in Kingstown (first real quest area you go to) at a police station. As I walked out of building I got a big flash of light and then this large window popped up with "Become a PATRON now!" Buy XYZ … then all kinds of goodies.

Utterly killed any sense of immersion to be running out to fight zombies and do a quest to have a giant flashing window pop-up trying to convince you to buy stuff.

F2P totally sucks IMO. Much preferred the earlier days of MMO's with a monthly fee while the rest of the content remained "add" and micro-transaction free.
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May 3rd, 2018, 05:55
i like the f2p site
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May 3rd, 2018, 23:35
DDO is not in your face if you're not a subscription player, you're simply restricted to about 80% of the classes and the content, but you can buy them fairly cheaply with the points you actually get just for playing regularly!!
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May 4th, 2018, 00:38
I don't think the f2p model will ever die.
It's based on flaws of human nature. Humans won't change, the f2p model makes more money than any subscription.
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How about all games have a single huge lootbox you pay for up front that contains all the options, items, skins, unlocks etc? I'd pay for that!!
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May 4th, 2018, 00:54
Two business examples I've observed in corporate world.

1. Company sells online knowledge. Webinars, courses, electronic assessments.
Two purchase options..
A. Purchase to own. You can pay once, you get all the courses that are related, you get a DRM free copy of all the material.
B. For much less, you can stream per course, but only pay for the segments you want. You only can download assessments, everything else is stream only.

The most popular choice by FAR is the second option. The feedback given by those that percieve they are paying for only what they want is overwhelmingly positive. EVEN when the prices are clearly laid out.
On average, a pay for what you stream user pays 25% more than a purchase to own.
As for feedback, the purchase to own often have the highest returns, complaints, administration etc.

2. Second example.
Company sells digital and network services for small to midsize companies.
A. Pay per site. Larger upfront cost. 6mo contract. Guaranteed priority, on call service, hosting, IT, troubleshooting, custom solutions etx.
B. Pay per user. Smaller upfront cost. 3mo contract, lower priority service, slower response, 'boxed' solutions.
Again the math and sales team clearly outlines that per user is MORE expensive for less service. Trend is that most companies will start out with option B, drastically surpass the cost per user number in the first year, and would rather keep paying even tho they can switch to option A every three months.
Even when the sales teams CALL and exceeding user and tells them to switch to A for cost savings, the majority wont. They give feedback such as, 'like the flexibility, lower contract, lower cost (seriously, even when literally told they are paying too much)'

Sometimes the cost of percieved choice is much higher than the cost of the products, regardless of any actual choice.
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How about all games have a single huge lootbox you pay for up front that contains all the options, items, skins, unlocks etc? I'd pay for that!!
Last edited by Wisdom; May 4th, 2018 at 01:05.
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May 7th, 2018, 16:12
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
I have never seen a Bot in DDO!!
That's pretty amazing. I remember seeing bots back in Asheron's Call right around Y2K.
Originally Posted by wolfgrimdark View Post
F2P pretty much killed the MMO genre for me.
….
F2P totally sucks IMO. Much preferred the earlier days of MMO's with a monthly fee while the rest of the content remained "add" and micro-transaction free.
The killer for me was that you seem to be forced to either play alone and get a story OR play with your friends in areas designed for multi-player. City of Heroes let you do both at once with a great scaling mechanism.

I agree that the F2P model in MMOs is pretty horrible. It changes the developer's goal from "give the player a good time" to "wave carrots in front of the player." They don't want to give the player much fun - just enough to get the player to think that they COULD be having a lot of fun if they would just buy <insert list>.

However, it can also be used in a good way: try before you buy. To use the older terminology: crippleware. Something between a demo and the shareware model where you just pay if you liked the game.

Originally Posted by Wisdom View Post
I don't think the f2p model will ever die.
It's based on flaws of human nature. Humans won't change, the f2p model makes more money than any subscription.
Humans won't change any time soon but genetic engineering should be able to provide some fixes eventually.
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