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December 29th, 2018, 04:32
This is an enthusiast space simulation aimed at people who love gaming and are very hungry for true evolution and who have been waiting a very long time indeed to see a developer bold enough to go all the way - without being held back by narrow-minded publishers.
Well, that's one way of looking at it.
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December 29th, 2018, 12:41
Speaking of enthusiast space simulations,
More than 4,600 Elite: Dangerous players will embark on an epic, eight-month journey
https://www.polygon.com/2018/12/28/1…on-fsd-upgrade

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@dart
You looked up wow mechanics 4-6 hours a day for a year?

When I played I only really used two addons. Recount for a DPS meter and Deadly Boss Mods which pretty much tells you how to do raids with on screen tips.

Just measure your improvement with Recount and adapt until you put out better numbers and DBM will tell you how to do raids.
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December 29th, 2018, 12:48
@dart
You looked up wow mechanics 4-6 hours a day for a year?

When I played I only really used two addons. Recount for a DPS meter and Deadly Boss Mods which pretty much tells you how to do raids with on screen tips.

Just measure your improvement with Recount and adapt until you put out better numbers and DBM will tell you how to do raids.
If mods could make you the best - then everyone would share the #1 spot

That said, I played before mods became sophisticated enough to track things with accuracy. They were all based on assumptions, because Blizzard didn't reveal the details - and the game was a lot more complicated at release than it is now.

They removed a lot of the complexity for the sake of transparency.

But I didn't study mechanics because I needed it - but because I wanted to. I wanted to be the best - and I wanted to understand everything.

Who knows what the result would have been without that. I was top of the charts even before I started going in-depth with mechanics - but it became something of an obsession, and as I talked to more people - I had ever higher goals to aim for.

It was very satisfying for me - and an interesting experience, but ultimately a severe waste of life in many ways

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December 29th, 2018, 13:09
DBM won't make you the best but it cuts out the wiki-work required to learn the fights. It's a thousand times easier to learn raids. It even shows timers for boss phases and things.

So, how's Elite Dangerous looking, these days? Do you think it's catching up to Star Citizen?

The biggest difference I can see is the FPS gameplay.

In ED, you do already have a human avatar to customise who you see sitting in your ship, but they haven't done any walking around gameplay yet. Really, the scale of everything is just too massive. Walking would be a horrible way to explore a moon and if you're landing at a space station would it really add to the game to need to walk to an NPC to get a quest instead of just looking it up in a menu?

I think Star Trek Online has a better system where you have a 4man party for man-mode then in ship mode they're your 4 main crew which give your ship abilities. Not sure if you've played this one? 4man party is a bit more RPG plus it works better for co-op because when other humans join their character replaces one of your 4 so its easier to have everything scaled for 4man co-op. I think SC isn't experienced enough to work out how to do co-op, yet. All the content will be too easy and aimed at a single player and this is also because of performance issues having more units on screen. I feel like the best hope he have is up-scaled hitpoints for some bullet-sponge co-op.

I don't really need to be informed about SC because I'm informed about PC gaming in general. I know what I can realistically expect. All games are disappointing. Pretty much only Monster Hunter World has that spark of great game design. Everything else is Fallout76 to me.
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December 29th, 2018, 13:21
Originally Posted by SirJames View Post
DBM won't make you the best but it cuts out the wiki-work required to learn the fights. It's a thousand times easier to learn raids. It even shows timers for boss phases and things.
DBM didn't become available until I was almost done playing the game, but it's true - it made it a lot easier.

Personally, I never found raids challenging in the least. The challenge was always getting 40 people to listen and coordinate.

But I was also absurdly dedicated. That, to me, is really what "skill" is about. Which is why I don't pat myself on the back for being "the best" for 3 years. I just cared more than others did.

For 9 out of 10 new raid encounters, I needed 1 try - and the rest of my time was spent waiting for the dunces to understand their simple roles.

Of course, raids have evolved significantly since TBC - and I understand they're a lot more complicated now.

I will certainly never forget spending 5 hours - 5 times each week - for 1.5 years, trying to get Thunderfury and never getting it.

The irony, of course, is that once TBC came out - the very first blue you found was superior.

It was all part of my lesson in terms of not wasting my life on MMOs

So, how's Elite Dangerous looking, these days? Do you think it's catching up to Star Citizen?

The biggest difference I can see is the FPS gameplay.

In ED, you do already have a human avatar to customise who you see sitting in your ship, but they haven't done any walking around gameplay yet. Really, the scale of everything is just too massive. Walking would be a horrible way to explore a moon and if you're landing at a space station would it really add to the game to need to walk to an NPC to get a quest instead of just looking it up in a menu?

I think Star Trek Online has a better system where you have a 4man party for man-mode then in ship mode they're your 4 main crew which give your ship abilities. Not sure if you've played this one? 4man party is a bit more RPG plus it works better for co-op because when other humans join their character replaces one of your 4 so its easier to have everything scaled for 4man co-op. I think SC isn't experienced enough to work out how to do co-op, yet. All the content will be too easy and aimed at a single player and this is also because of performance issues having more units on screen. I feel like the best hope he have is up-scaled hitpoints for some bullet-sponge co-op.

I don't really need to be informed about SC because I'm informed about PC gaming in general. I know what I can realistically expect. All games are disappointing. Pretty much only Monster Hunter World has that spark of great game design. Everything else is Fallout76 to me.
I always liked Elite Dangerous in terms of mechanics and the core gameplay is reasonably solid. It's also incredibly well done for VR. It remains the single best VR game I've played.

But, for me, it was always about content - and ED has next to zero content.

I'm fully aware that you don't know much about Star Citizen. If we're talking mechanics and, especially the gameplay horizon - it's something like literally 100 times more interesting (well, once it's released) - but that's not the reason I want to play Star Citizen. Not the primary reason, anyway.

It's content - always content.

Right now, in the alpha with not even a single star system fully done - there's already more content than the entirety of Elite Dangerous.

Content is what makes me want to play, and the gameplay horizon is what makes me stay - so long as content is perpetually delivered.

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December 29th, 2018, 14:04
Originally Posted by griniaris View Post
You are totally wrong!
It was not a scam!!
According to crowdfunded scene's supporters, a scam happens when you give something without receiving anything. Which means that the vast majority of crowdfunded products can not be scams.

This disqualifies this project from being a scam as it is already released.

By the way, a few years, people pointed out a product like Dead State as a scam, they were asked by the moderation to move their discussion elsewhere.

Same applies for any crowdfunded product, it is supposed.
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December 29th, 2018, 14:08
I'm pretty sure most of the naysayers have given up the scam claims about Star Citizen.

Now, it's more about being too long in development - and the developers being "greedy" because they want to keep paying their employees for working on the game.

For sure, there are still "scam" people left - and Derek Smart is still trying his best to deceive and fabricate "evidence" against it - despite having been proven wrong dozens of times. I mean, he's rivaling Trump when it comes to being established as a bold-faced liar almost every time he opens his mouth.

But, these days, truth and facts don't matter in the slightest, I guess.

Still, I don't see too many detractors pulling the scam card - at least not in a serious way.

Also, there's a large portion of the general gaming populace who has zero interest or stake in the outcome, and they're just having a bit of fun spreading lies and misinformation.

That's not exactly what I originally thought we'd get out of the Internet. But there it is.

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December 29th, 2018, 15:28
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
It's content - always content.

Right now, in the alpha with not even a single star system fully done - there's already more content than the entirety of Elite Dangerous.

Content is what makes me want to play, and the gameplay horizon is what makes me stay - so long as content is perpetually delivered.
Your expectations are far to high. You're sure to be more disappointed than I.

Surely at least one system should be finished after almost 10 years in development. They're made up of 99.99999999999% empty space, after all.

There's more content already than all ED? What do you mean?

ED has a fair few mission types. It's all randomly generated, but all the things you might be able to do in a space game are there. Combat, trade, mining, exploration, passenger missions, alien investigations, etc. It's just missing the linear content because it's a 400 billion planet sandbox where you can take 8 months to make a journey. Everyone makes their own path rather than following the storyline missions / main questline.

I just can't be bothered playing ED because it takes too long.

If I bought SC today, what would I do? Step by step so I can imagine the experience?

I'd start by downloading it before I go to sleep. How big is it? Might take a few days.

Then on the main menu I press what? Multiplayer? Then do I get a server list or? Where do I start in the system? Does everyone start in the same place? What content am I presented with? Are my ships and progress saved to a single server? Is it like WoW? Start off following the quests which lead me here and there? Then what group content is there? Instanced dungeons? Raids? How's the loot? Are you playing on a minimum pledge or did you cave and invest in a $300 ship because you told yourself it would help development?

I have so many, many questions that the game media never answers. It's all just graphics, to me. I don't see any game. Elite must have more content?

If you can work out how Chris Roberts can successfully market the project to SirJames you could make a shitload of money in advertising.

Just keep in mind I can't be fooled with flashy tech demos or empty promises.

They asked for $200k, they got $200m and not one system is done. It's a scam lol.
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December 29th, 2018, 15:33
Originally Posted by SirJames View Post
Your expectations are far to high. You're sure to be more disappointed than I.

Surely at least one system should be finished after almost 10 years in development. They're made up of 99.99999999999% empty space, after all.

There's more content already than all ED? What do you mean?

ED has a fair few mission types. It's all randomly generated, but all the things you might be able to do in a space game are there. Combat, trade, mining, exploration, passenger missions, alien investigations, etc. It's just missing the linear content because it's a 400 billion planet sandbox where you can take 8 months to make a journey. Everyone makes their own path rather than following the storyline missions / main questline.

I just can't be bothered playing ED because it takes too long.

If I bought SC today, what would I do? Step by step so I can imagine the experience?

I'd start by downloading it before I go to sleep. How big is it? Might take a few days.

Then on the main menu I press what? Multiplayer? Then do I get a server list or? Where do I start in the system? Does everyone start in the same place? What content am I presented with? Are my ships and progress saved to a single server? Is it like WoW? Start off following the quests which lead me here and there? Then what group content is there? Instanced dungeons? Raids? How's the loot? Are you playing on a minimum pledge or did you cave and invest in a $300 ship because you told yourself it would help development?

I have so many, many questions that the game media never answers. It's all just graphics, to me. I don't see any game. Elite must have more content?

If you can work out how Chris Roberts can successfully market the project to SirJames you could make a shitload of money in advertising.

Just keep in mind I can't be fooled with flashy tech demos or empty promises.

They asked for $200k, they got $200m and not one system is done. It's a scam lol.
Are you drinking again?

You sound like you're wavering. If you want to know about Star Citizen, then it's extremely easy to find out. It's the most open development process I know of - and there are thousands of videos available.

I don't really have the patience to educate people who don't have an open mind. If you manage to demonstrate you've become reasonably open to what the game is, rather than whatever fantasy you've believed in - I will consider it, but it will take some effort on your part

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December 29th, 2018, 16:41
I don't really have the patience to educate people who don't have an open mind. If you manage to demonstrate you've become reasonably open to what the game is, rather than whatever fantasy you've believed in - I will consider it, but it will take some effort on your part
HAHAHA

Still Dart, after all these years. LOL.

I'm still looking forward to Star citizen but am just hoping I will still be living when it's released and still have the use of mouse, pad and joystick to play.
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December 29th, 2018, 16:50
I can't help myself

Still, if anyone is genuinely interested - I can recommend BoredGamer on Youtube as a decent source of information. He's not a slobbering fanboy - and he's actually quite informed, unlike many others (fans and haters alike).

I know of countless people who stream about the game - and overall, I've found BG to be a very nice balance between detail and getting down to business. He's also delightfully free from self-aggrandizement and he doesn't get his ego in the way, which is very refreshing in a YT streamer.

Here's a recent video from him about the current state of the game:

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Now, personally, I would caution anyone who is interested - and tell them to wait. Unless you really like the prospect of supporting development - there's no wise reason to play it right now.

It's still little more than a tech demo. Well, there are complete gameplay loops - and you can have maybe 30-40 hours of fun and interesting content if you exhaust what's there, but it's still absolutely nothing like what it will be at release, and you'll only be spoiling the experience for yourself.

I would definitely wait until full persistence is in, which is potentially coming next year - though it might be later still.

Without it, your progress will be wiped AT LEAST every 3 months or so - which is pretty counterproductive if you've just spent hours working towards a shiny new ship.

I'd say 2018 was the first year where they've got their shit in order in terms of the release schedule - and it has been a massive dump compared to previous years.

3.3+ have been the first releases to show more than just a glimpse of the final vision - but it's far from where it needs to be, to be compelling as a full perpetually interesting game.

I would expect 2019 to do the same thing, only exponentially in terms of content - now that so many of the creation tools are close to finalized - or at least at tier 0.

So, I would never recommend pledging for this with the intention of playing it as if it was a finished game or anything like it - it is NOT.

When server-meshing and full persistence is in, then maybe - if you want to spoil things by playing a beta, but certainly not before then.

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December 29th, 2018, 17:19
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
I can't help myself
Now, personally, I would caution anyone who is interested - and tell them to wait.
Would you?
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
Unless you really like the prospect of supporting development - there's no wise reason to play it right now.
This development is taking a little long to get my support.

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
It's still little more than a tech demo. Well, there are complete gameplay loops - and you can have maybe 30-40 hours of fun and interesting content if you exhaust what's there, but it's still absolutely nothing like what it will be at release, and you'll only be spoiling the experience for yourself.
Right! That's what I've been saying. It's nothing! They still have to work out how to make a game out of it.

I just don't think there will be a release. It doesn't make financial sense. The reviews are going to slam it.

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
I would definitely wait until full persistence is in, which is potentially coming next year - though it might be later still.

Without it, your progress will be wiped AT LEAST every 3 months or so - which is pretty counterproductive if you've just spent hours working towards a shiny new ship.
I wouldn't expect persistence until the very, very end and even then it will no doubt be too soon. Something will be exploitable in a game of this scope and it won't be found until some REAL gamers get in there instead of these gullible backer noobs who have all paid2win their ships and never had the need for a shortcut though the grind.

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
So, I would never recommend pledging for this with the intention of playing it as if it was a finished game or anything like it - it is NOT.
Well, damn. It sounds like everything I say is true?

The ship sales are taxed, you know. It could/would be argued in court that the game is finished and it delivered on it's legal obligations already.

Imagine if the game didn't get any better from here. Just more and more new DLC ships to buy. It's not that far fetched a notion. It's easier to imagine than the game being released.

The whole Dark Souls series, man. Whole thing come and gone and Chris Roberts with all the cash in the world hasn't made one finished system for his space sim where you can get out of your ship and walk around.

No Mans Sky is in the lead, so far. Think about that.

I'd probably rather play Starbound than Star Citizen.
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December 29th, 2018, 17:22
I have no doubt you think everything you're saying sounds like it's true SJ

I think that's true for most people - even Trump - and certainly no less so for alcoholic supporters of Hitler and Asian loot grinders.

That said, Starbound isn't bad - and not too dissimilar from Star Citizen - if you take away the ambition and bold vision.

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December 29th, 2018, 18:34
Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
I have no doubt you think everything you're saying sounds like it's true SJ

I think that's true for most people - even Trump - and certainly no less so for alcoholic supporters of Hitler and Asian loot grinders.

That said, Starbound isn't bad - and not too dissimilar from Star Citizen - if you take away the ambition and bold vision.
1. I don't drink unless I get a $150 bottle as a gift.
2. I don't support Hitler.
3. Monster Hunter World is a fantastic game.

I think you misunderstood what I once said about all wars being bad and how USA had done the same things Hitler did regarding central banks. I was talking more about USA, as it was a Trump thread, but clearly you were triggered and went into auto-pilot. Typical liberal mindset?

If you were going to take away anything from that conversation I would have liked it to be how my family has fought for Australia in both world wars and Korea but not Vietnam or any war since. We're heroes! We survived! Even survived a mustard gas attack and then lived to 94 years old!

But war is different now. I feel like the modern wars against "terror" are a load of shit that is only creating more terror. There are no heroes. There's no real enemy like a Hitler. God, how they'd love one! But no one's buying the bullshit stories about Syria using chemical weapons. The media will keep saying it though until children who heard it become adults so it sounds feasible since they heard it years ago.

Why are we supposed to accept that just because USA wants to blow up Libya for no reason that there will be millions of Africans moving into Europe (and Australia!) but that's fine because we're all part of one global system the war is building where everyones equal and no one belongs to any country? Then everyone gets pissed off at Trump because he doesn't want to take in any migrants from USAs wars?

Just what do you think is going on in the world??

USA has been using "proxy armies" of "moderate rebels" to do the groundwork and they're being paid in euros. USA knew what would happen if they took out Libya. It's intentional. Just another creation of a proxy army.

It's like the French President recently said, "There's no such thing as a true Dane just like there's no such thing as a true Frenchman."

How do you feel about that statement? Are you a true dane? Should you have more rights than an African entering your country illegally?

If I travel as a tourist to Denmark I want to see Danes; not Africans. If I travel to Africa I want to see Africans; not Danes. Does that make me a nazi in your eyes? Am I pretty much supporting 1940s Germany with this extreme conservative view?

I say you're brainwashed by left-wing media. You think nationalism, patriotism and conservation are just nazi traits and also that Star Citizen will actually be good.

Enjoy your hope.
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December 29th, 2018, 18:41
I'm glad to hear you didn't actually mean what you said about Hitler

As for the drinking thing, we both know that's not quite true.

Oh, and for "danes" and "africans" - it's just people. It's just culture.

To me, we're all exactly the same - just subject to a series of random circumstances that make up our "cultures". Tweak a little here - and something entirely different would be the case.

To me, that's utterly boring and irrelevant. What matters is human nature - and we all share that equally.

Which is why we're all equal and we should get rid of any and all borders - and seek a unified existence, free of the language barrier and whatever other ignorant obstacle we've placed between us.

There's plenty to explore without inventing differences that were never there.

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December 29th, 2018, 18:48
I'm sure that's what those two girls from Norway thought before they went backpacking in Morocco. (which is NW Africa, just under Portugal)
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December 29th, 2018, 18:48
Oh, there are many people working against that notion, yourself included. Most people aren't that insightful about their own nature, I find.

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December 29th, 2018, 18:58
The melting pot of cultures is a myth. Only china-towns and muslim areas are reality. I come from the most multicultural country in the world and they all tend to keep to themselves.

But I'm certainly not working against that notion. I read the little prince. I understand about borders.

But I fear for a global world order there will be a great rebalancing in order to make all money equal 1.0 of eachother. Industry will be moved about in order to make a country more relevant. Rich countries will become poorer, poor richer. It pretty much has to be some form of communism to rule a global system.

So, are you for or against communism? For, obviously?
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December 29th, 2018, 19:03
You're too limited in your thinking.

I'm not for any currently known system. My own suggestion would be about removing human nature from the equation and letting technology govern us from a relatively limited ruleset.

It would involve a lot of things most people would be extremely uncomfortable with - when looked at with current societal standards.

For instance, there would be no money and no secrets.

We'd all be 100% aware of each other in terms of position, physical condition, mental activity - and so forth. Well, that information would be freely available to everyone.

Essentially, you wouldn't be able to be anywhere, do anything - or talk to anyone without having that information shared with the rest of the world.

Meaning, crime and deceit would be all but impossible to keep secret - and much, much easier to detect and prevent.

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December 29th, 2018, 19:23
Sounds like fantasy. If something like that was born out of this system it would be Google or someone who owns the AI making all the decisions.

What if I told you money already doesn't exist? You'll be paying with your phone before long. Cash is on its way out. Every single cent in circulation is owned to someone else and it's all in a bank. Everyone's just playing with banks money.

The limitations in my thinking are not self imposed. There is a power structure in the world and people with power don't just give it away.

You try and make your own money. Hell, let's start lower. You try and get your message on the TV or even the damn internet if it doesn't adhere to the globalist agenda.

I mean, we could solve most the worlds problems if we banned OIL but why do you think that won't happen? Instead the little people will just get another carbon tax and be happy about it because global warming is a global issue without borders.
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