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March 14th, 2019, 03:58
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post

Since when do developers have any say over the price of a game? The only time that's realistic is when the game is self-published by the actual developer, and most games aren't.
Whoever sets the final price at Epic game store, whether it be the developer, publisher, or Epic games store, or them in agreement, should ensure the price is at least 20% cheaper than steam.

Edited to add "publisher"
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March 14th, 2019, 04:05
Originally Posted by Arkadia7 View Post
Whoever sets the final price at Epic game store, whether it be the developer or Epic games store, or them in agreement, should ensure the price is at least 20% cheaper than steam.
I don't think you quite understand how it works. Like I said, the developer usually doesn't have a say in the price. That would be the publisher, and a publisher isn't going to take a profit cut so the consumer can save a few $ in the hope that they'll sell a few extra copies.

The idea that another platform should sell games cheaper just to compete with Steam is ridiculous anyways.

*Edit* Also, Epic is already giving away free games as an extra incentive.
Last edited by JDR13; March 14th, 2019 at 04:20.
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March 14th, 2019, 05:00
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
Noone would cry if WL3 gets never made (except it's backers eager for some mmoing I guess).

Outer Worlds can't go Microsoft Xbox Store exclusivity as the publisher isn't Microsoft.
Shut the hell up. Really don't say those dreaded words in one paragraph.

As future RPG games from inXile & Obsidian might be universal App's only released on the windows store in the next five years. Not a future I want to see come true.

Also @Ripper.
There’s a reason Julian Gallop mentions refunds for those who expected the game on “another platform” – he knows the fucking deal. He didn’t make that video not expecting people to be pissed. There’s no way an informed game dev like him did not see what happened with Metro.
From the AMA.
Keep in mind that we knew there would be backlash. We knew there would be refunds. If we had to refund 100% of currently pre-orders, we'd still be in the black. We didn't make the decision lightly.​
Seems Epic payed them a huge lump sum for the exclusivity deal.

@Arkadia7

I agree games should sell for less if the developer/publisher is making more profit per sale. Yet you will barely see this happen just like how high gas prices raised food prices.

Now the kicker here is they never went down after the price of gas plummeted. I also see the same company's shrinking what they offer & the buyer still pay the same price.
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Last edited by Couchpotato; March 14th, 2019 at 09:09.
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March 14th, 2019, 06:05
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
(…) From the AMA (…)
Would you kindly tell me its URL ?
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March 14th, 2019, 06:11
Originally Posted by henriquejr View Post
Would you kindly tell me its URL ?
Here you go it has a lot of answers about this deal.

Link - https://www.reddit.com/r/PhoenixPoin…nd_david_kaye/
Please take this opportunity to ask Julian and David your questions about Phoenix Point, the Epic deal and related topics.

We will try to get through as many questions as possible. We expect questions will get repeated, so we will only answer them once. Please check if your question has already been answered in the thread.

We understand than many of you are angry or upset and emotions may be running high, but please try to be civil and treat everyone here with respect.
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March 14th, 2019, 08:41
Originally Posted by Arkadia7 View Post
Yes, some good points made by those who are not gung ho for Epic store. Games offered on Epic should be at least 20% cheaper - consistently - than those offered on steam. Why are most developers asking for the same price as what steam charges when they are getting a much larger cut. Talk about being greedy. They should pass on the savings to their customers.
The reason games can't be offered cheaper elsewhere, to pass on those savings, is that when you sell your game on Steam you sign an agreement not to undercut the Steam price elsewhere. If you're selling on Steam you cannot sell it for less elsewhere, even if you'd like to. GOG takes the same cut as Steam and probably requires the same agreement, too.

Originally Posted by Arkadia7 View Post
Whoever sets the final price at Epic game store, whether it be the developer, publisher, or Epic games store, or them in agreement, should ensure the price is at least 20% cheaper than steam.
So yeah, the only way to pass on these savings is to remove the games from Steam and GOG and only sell them on Epic. (Or other similar cut-rate distribution platforms)

This is probably exactly how Metro Exodus ended up $10 cheaper on Epic (as JDR13 mentioned).
Last edited by Stingray; March 14th, 2019 at 08:55.
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March 14th, 2019, 10:13
Well, they certainly can't both have such an agreement, as a lot of games are found on both GOG and Steam, often at different prices.
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March 14th, 2019, 10:42
I don't know if GOG requires it, just guessing there. Regardless, if you saw a lower price on GOG, that would violate the agreement that Steam definitely requires. My guess is you might be seeing variations in regional price adjustments. See if the price is any different in USD?

Also of interest, Epic tweeted about this issue a while back:
https://twitter.com/TimSweeneyEpic/s…50761392979968
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March 14th, 2019, 11:28
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
I don't think you quite understand how it works. Like I said, the developer usually doesn't have a say in the price. That would be the publisher, and a publisher isn't going to take a profit cut so the consumer can save a few $ in the hope that they'll sell a few extra copies.
Kind of. I think it depends on a lot of different factors. As part of most publishing agreements the terms will spell out the price the game will be initially sold at, any upfront payments, the ongoing royalty/commission structure. Every agreement is different and the cost/size of the game but ultimately it is up to the developer to agree to it.

Of course, if the publisher owns the developer then it is a whole different story.
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March 14th, 2019, 14:06
Originally Posted by tekulte View Post
On the other hand, I don't think any other client service can reach nearly as many potential buyers as Steam, so while they might take a bigger cut, what they are providing (i.e. huge buyer pool) means bulk sales make up for the bigger cut (i.e. volume sales).
As so often done on this site, that is taking the side of devs. The remark was made in favour of players: releasing money so that devs make better products.

It was not meant as a way how devs could profit easierly.

For sure, bulk sales, flash sales, discount sales are great for sellers (devs): it removes the pressure from delivering a good product.

Players who buy a product as part of a bulk have not the same expectations as players buying it single.
At a reduced price not the same as full price.
Played three years after the initial release not the same as playing day one.

Best game ever made is the one that is never played. Quick way to make money without risking disatisfaction.

Steam is an excellent platform for that.
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March 14th, 2019, 14:08
I'm not sure why they "should" be selling their games 20% cheaper. I think it's a good thing if the studios see a bigger cut of the profits from the distributor's slice - perhaps it might lead to lower prices, or perhaps it just shores up their financial position, and gives them more to invest in their projects. I think it's a good thing if the people producing the things I enjoy are making good money. I think many of the smaller outfits face a very challenging existence, and I don't see it as greed if they find a way to do better on the deal.
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Last edited by Ripper; March 14th, 2019 at 14:54.
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March 14th, 2019, 14:16
Originally Posted by henriquejr View Post
Not only those, Joxer. According to an YT user, the Epic Store has:
No cloud saves
No achievements
No controller support for the launcher menus
No integrated screenshot capture
No user profiles
No mod distribution system
"unfair" regional pricing
bad/unresponsive support
No ability to stream to other devices
No 3rd party keys

List is cracking. Good laughter at no ability to stream to other devices. For that point alone, this platform should turn into the first choice for people on this site. At least when one standard.

List is great.

No mod distribution system should mean no way to monetize them through the platform. Oh, wait, players demand mod monetization contrary to what they claim.

People on this site enjoy picturing themselves as dedicated to SP products. Single player through and through, they hold the line. They do not falter.

Features like cloud saving and more does belong to SP design in no sort of manners.
Cloud saving is a technological feature implemented because devs can do it and charge for it.

Even better, it allows private information to be stored away as vid products comes with consent to terms of use. Great way to build up a mine to data mine.

This platform does not violate privacy as much as Steam does. Must be changed, must be put on part.
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March 14th, 2019, 15:24
Hindsight on what people laughs at is sometimes troubling.

Anyway, the no refunding policy on Epic is due to the fact than the platform is young and still lacks functionalities or an assumed choice?
After all Steam did not launch with a full of functionalities either.
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March 14th, 2019, 15:32
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
No mod distribution system should mean no way to monetize them through the platform. Oh, wait, players demand mod monetization contrary to what they claim.
The first thing that comes into your mind when talking about mod support is "mod monetization"? Really? IMO, mod support translates into the ability to improve your own game or gameplay experience by using mods. Period. I am not talking about things like Creation Club or other mod monetization initiatives here. Of course, a gaming platform can always provide mod support in order to gain more $$$ by monetizing on them, but this isn't what the first thing that comes into my mind. For me, mod support is a desirable feature, yes, because sometimes we just wanna improve our fun by adding mods to a game. That's what I think: "mod support = improved fun", "mod support = extended game lifetime".

If a gaming platform will choose to monetize on mod users, that's something entirely different: it's up to you to decide if you'll pay for this or not. But not offering mod support in no way, that's a big minus.

Please notice that I'm not vouching for Steam approach on mod support. Steam Workshop, as it currently is, has several problems but it is already something. It is more like an embrionary stage for modding support, but still far from ideal.
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Last edited by henriquejr; March 14th, 2019 at 16:22. Reason: To better clarify my viewpoint on Steam Workshop
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March 14th, 2019, 15:38
Based on my experience in the modding community, only the most casual modders use the very limited Steam Workshop. Most of the proper stuff takes place on the Nexus, with all sorts of more powerful tools.
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March 14th, 2019, 15:42
Originally Posted by ChatMiauleur View Post
Hindsight on what people laughs at is sometimes troubling.

Anyway, the no refunding policy on Epic is due to the fact than the platform is young and still lacks functionalities or an assumed choice?
After all Steam did not launch with a full of functionalities either.
As I recall, Valve was not at all keen on the idea of refunds, but they buckled when it looked like they might face legal action under consumer protections.
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March 14th, 2019, 16:13
Originally Posted by ChatMiauleur View Post
After all Steam did not launch with a full of functionalities either.
Steam was kind of a pioneer (not considering the Blizzard's Battle.net for Diablo 1 and other "oldtimer" game clients). A recently released gaming platform like Epic Store shouldn't have been launched missing mandatory features like funding policy. I understand Epic Games want to compete against the "giants" (Steam, GOG) and they have right to do so, but let's know how the "giants" work and improve on their features (or, at least, offer the same).
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Last edited by henriquejr; March 14th, 2019 at 17:11.
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March 14th, 2019, 16:18
Originally Posted by Ripper View Post
Based on my experience in the modding community, only the most casual modders use the very limited Steam Workshop. Most of the proper stuff takes place on the Nexus, with all sorts of more powerful tools.
Fully agreed. As I wrote above, Steam Workshop is not ideal for mod using. Features like load order and mod priority aren't correctly implemented, IF they are.
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March 14th, 2019, 16:45
I read the AMA on reddit…

Wow, people are really angry and a lot of them seem to think Gollop did it to spite the backers. I mean I understand being disappointed and upset, but some act is if they've been violated.

Yeah, they broke their promise to get extra funding from epic, but they offer either a refund, or you get the game on epic at release and the game a year later on your platform of choice. Isn't that a reasonable way of dealing with it?
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March 14th, 2019, 16:48
Yeah, without mentioning than most serious mods are very sensitive to versionning and if GOG allows to control updates, Steam does not.
I am maybe saying that because I had to wait for modtech to be updated for Roguetech game when Steam forced on me Battletech 1.5
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