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Default Cyberpunk 2077 - Unkillable Children, Story NPCs

July 15th, 2019, 23:45
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
It hasn't led to that, not in decades. But somehow in your mind this specific game is a critical moment in history, changing what all games are willing to let you do. Like I said, you're being dramatic.
..and you just keep on lying, i've never said it's critical, it's a detail among many in a game, and its a pretty minor one, thus there's nothing dramatic about it. I've only said i don't think it's optimal and that i don't like censorship (but that i understand it when it comes to children).

Very few would call CP a "narrative game", the idea is an open world game, first and foremost.

I think i'm 100% done with this topic since i'm sensing there's no interest in the topic at hand, it's more about distorting what i say into the usual very black/white view of things, which is not how i tend to look at stuff.
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July 16th, 2019, 00:02
Originally Posted by vurt View Post
Very few would call CP a "narrative game", the idea is an open world game, first and foremost.
Don't know where you would gotten that idea, but it's the wrong one.
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July 16th, 2019, 00:24
Originally Posted by vurt View Post
..and you just keep on lying, i've never said it's critical, it's a detail among many in a game, and its a pretty minor one, thus there's nothing dramatic about it. I've only said i don't think it's optimal and that i don't like censorship (but that i understand it when it comes to children).
Using a word (critical) that you didn't specifically use isn't "lying" if it accurately describes the importance you're ascribing to CDPR's decision. And the outcomes you describe are pretty dramatic indeed. I'll use only your exact words, since you are so fond of semantic tripwires instead of arguing the actual point.

"In the end it's bad with this type of censorship or restrictions because there's only one route to how it will develop over time."

Yeah? What route is that, Vurt?

"I don't think it's a good idea to censorship it, it makes it a norm, it can spread to other things being unkillable (animals would be my guess could be up next) and to other mediums too."

I hate to use words you didn't use, but… let me be very careful now…. you're saying that not allowing us to kill children or plot-important NPCs will lead to other things being unkillable, animals first among them. And that it could lead to movies and TVs shows and books also not allowing the killing of children. That seems like a big deal to me, and it seems like a big deal to you too.

What other things, besides animals, do you think might be verboten?

"If over the years blood, for example, was censored from games most people would not be bothered with it either. We would have enjoyed so many games that didn't have it and still we had a great time with these games. It doesn't make it perfect or preferable, it'll just be a new norm that most is willing to accept."

What else, Vurt?

"In this day and age i can see how there's probably those who would prefer if e.g a certain gender or people of certain skin colors were unkillable too.. "

So this non-critical, just a small detail decision has led, in this future dystopia, to games not being allowed to show the killing of children, people with specific skin colors, and animals, as well as not showing blood when we kill whom we're allowed to kill.

Hmm, I'm noticing a trend here. Bringing up race in a discussion that had nothing to do with race. Selectively ignoring the parts of posts that don't support your point, while throwing out insults (you're too sensitive, you're a liar, you can't keep up with me) instead of responding to them. What group does this remind me of?

"….and there's the usual fanboyism here where certain people dresses up in their shiny white armor to fight whatever tiny issue other people have with "their" game."

Shiny white armor, gee, what group uses that phrase every time someone voices a concern with how anyone is treated in any setting?
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July 16th, 2019, 00:29
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
Don't know where you would gotten that idea, but it's the wrong one.
Hardly. This is an open world game similar to Witcher 3 in a new setting, according to all info which has been released, info is also available on the official site. "open world" is of course what is mentioned in the first line of the description, nothing about it being any type of "narrative game".

Bye. And yeah keep on lying, have fun. I've said my piece over and over, its not critical but yes censorship is bad and can ofc lead to more censorship, there
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July 16th, 2019, 10:57
As a sad loser I only ever killed hostile characters in games.
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July 16th, 2019, 12:30
Well, if you make this game following the paths of Fallouts or skyrim, where you can kill or find anyone killed you gonna ruin all that it has to offer.
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July 16th, 2019, 12:31
Originally Posted by srabuseen View Post
As a sad loser I only ever killed hostile characters in games.
Are you entirely sure about that?

When I played Divinity: Original Sin, I also only engaged in combat with hostile characters. However, when I let my nephew have a quick bash at it with a save file we were inside the tavern and I was showing him how telekinesis worked in the game. He found himself in a situation where he dropped a bar stool on, I think, the cat, and the whole bar went hostile. A most amusing learning experience that would not be available had DivOs not been designed with an "everything is gameplay" mentality.

And when I think about it, I've played quite a few cRPGs where triggering non-hostiles to hostile was an important part of gameplay and gameplay options and understanding the word in which you operate. Even in Mario games it's possible to kill your teammates, because Mario also has an everything is gameplay mentaility. While you don't say anything specific in your post, your tone is implying some kind of moralistic stance when computer games traditionally do not come with pre-defined morality, they only come with gameplay and gameplay options.

There's nothing wrong with story focused games that put story-impact above gameplay, the desire to be more cinematic and less active, there's clearly a market for that which is made very happy with that kind of game being present. I myself like games like that as well, but neither is morally above the other and in terms of the genre of computer games, the morality of maintaining a focus on gameplay demands that the more of your game you make less interractable then the 'less of a game' it is.

This is to say that I have no problem with CP2077 doing what it does and I have no problem with games like DivOs doing the things it does, but if I was to hang my banner on sarcastic moralistic on-liners then I'd fall on the side of the moral imperative of encouraging gameplay games. In that, if you've never found yourself hostiling non-hostiles in a cRPG then I would say that either you're memory is being very selective or you have very little experience wih the genre, not just of cRPGs but computer games in general.

Mainly, that kind of one-liner simplistic sarcasm is so reductive as to be more morally repugnant than anythng a game might offer in the questionable real life morality department.
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July 16th, 2019, 13:22
Originally Posted by vigor View Post
Well, if you make this game following the paths of Fallouts or skyrim, where you can kill or find anyone killed you gonna ruin all that it has to offer.
Skyrim has immortal NPC's I believe?
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July 16th, 2019, 13:24
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
Skyrim has immortal NPC's I believe?
sure, but wouldn't be best to not kill someone if its not neccesary?
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July 17th, 2019, 12:35
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
He found himself in a situation where he dropped a bar stool on, I think, the cat, and the whole bar went hostile.
That's cool and I applaud this kind of gameplay mechanic, however in such a situation I'd just reload the game and act more careful.

Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
And when I think about it, I've played quite a few cRPGs where triggering non-hostiles to hostile was an important part of gameplay and gameplay options and understanding the word in which you operate.
Sure, but it does not always end with killing those people. If I'm ambushed by seemingly neutral NPCs, who turn out to be hostiles in disquise, then I have no problem eliminating them. On the other hand if I go into a house in Gothic and suddenly all townsfolk are coming after me, I just reload and, again, try to be more careful (or just let the loot rot).

My point is I would never walk up to a neutral character and just try to kill him to test the game engine, regardless of gender or age or species. That's the "sad loser" part in my one-liner, because I'm only interested in using only a limited subset of the possibilities most cRPGs provide - not including killing children and non-hostile NPCs.
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July 17th, 2019, 14:17
Originally Posted by srabuseen View Post
My point is I would never walk up to a neutral character and just try to kill him to test the game engine
We live in an era where players:
- are trained to betatest for free products that are supposed to be polished release
- are persuaded into bugbreaking games for fastruns glorified by moronic gaming media
- bought a second (unpaid) job grinder where the only way to have some fun is to go destroying everything

You wouldn't. Mainstream audience would.
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July 17th, 2019, 15:40
Originally Posted by srabuseen View Post
That's cool and I applaud this kind of gameplay mechanic, however in such a situation I'd just reload the game and act more careful.
Absolutely. The game is permitting you a choice of how to play it and you are making that choice.

Originally Posted by srabuseen View Post
That's the "sad loser" part in my one-liner, because I'm only interested in using only a limited subset of the possibilities most cRPGs provide - not including killing children and non-hostile NPCs.
I reject the fact that you are a sad loser for making a choice that is there for you to make. I reject your use of the terminology to imply other people consider you a sad loser for making those choices. I would be interested in hearing why you need to express yourself in this way, it sounds like a very interesting anecdote is being held back wherein someone has referred to you as a sad loser, an anecdote which might be of valuable use to many here in guarding themselves against either questionable forums or questionable people.
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July 17th, 2019, 16:12
All this complaining about not existing killable children in a game kills immersion is so ridiculous that I wonder if these people do not have anything else to do, or if maybe they should face some hardships in life to make them stop complaining about stupid crap.

From a business standpoint, what would CD projekt gain by having killable children in the game? Just imagine the negative press. For what gains? To please some few neckbeards?
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July 17th, 2019, 16:21
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
But I will say I appreciate when a developer does that little extra and gives alternative solutions when a crucial NPC is killed instead of making them invulnerable. Obsidian does this in PoE for example, and I think it's laudable.
Obsidian also pays no mind to the fact that their launches are routinely a bug-filled joke - and with titles that are far less expansive game worlds than what we've been led to believe about Cyberpunk.

If there's corners to be cut for the sake of development Q/A sanity, 99.99% of us don't really care about these contrivances. And game devs know this.
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July 17th, 2019, 16:31
Originally Posted by vigor View Post
sure, but wouldn't be best to not kill someone if its not neccesary?
Oh, I misunderstood your post. I thought you meant that they HAD mortal NPC's since Fallout does, but you were referring to FO3+. Now your comment makes more sense.
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July 17th, 2019, 16:39
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
Obsidian also pays no mind to the fact that their launches are routinely a bug-filled joke - and with titles that are far less expansive game worlds than what we've been led to believe about Cyberpunk.

If there's corners to be cut for the sake of development Q/A sanity, 99.99% of us don't really care about these contrivances. And game devs know this.
Agreed. I said the effort was commendable, but I certainly think they need to step it up in terms of quality control. One doesn't exclude the other. While I enjoyed many of Obsidians games at release, I enjoyed them a hell of a lot more the second time through after a year of bugfixing. I think a lot of people today wait for the full package before purchasing, something developers have caused themselves by releasing buggy games and then adding DLC after DLC. I'm one of those people and seldom purchase games at day 1 anymore.
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July 17th, 2019, 17:57
Originally Posted by ruysan View Post
All this complaining about not existing killable children in a game kills immersion is so ridiculous that I wonder if these people do not have anything else to do, or if maybe they should face some hardships in life to make them stop complaining about stupid crap.
If you have better things to do in your life why are you even responding to a stupid thread?
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July 17th, 2019, 18:07
Originally Posted by ruysan View Post
All this complaining about not existing killable children in a game kills immersion is so ridiculous that I wonder if these people do not have anything else to do, or if maybe they should face some hardships in life to make them stop complaining about stupid crap.

From a business standpoint, what would CD projekt gain by having killable children in the game? Just imagine the negative press. For what gains? To please some few neckbeards?
All this complaining about people complaining about not existing killable children in a game kills immersion is so ridiculous that I wonder if you do not have anything else to do, or if maybe you should face some hardships in life to make you stop complaining about stupid crap.
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July 18th, 2019, 12:46
Not sure it is a complaint. Could be mere observations and questioning. Does not call to end complaints about unkillable kids.

The product for sure was guessed as having potential, a lot of it. And these kinds of complaints about unkillable kids go beyond expectations. It was unforeseen.
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July 18th, 2019, 12:56
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
But reading through these posts makes me think those who argue that gaming in general is far too focused on killing are probably right, since again and again that is the ONLY measure any of you are using to determine whether you have "freedom" in this game… I can't attest to all of the themes of Cyberpunk 2077's story, but I'm 100% sure the point of the game isn't murder, so exclusively worrying so much about just how freely you can murder seems very reductive and tunnel visioned to me, if not worrisome.
SJWs took over and determined that kills were done unfairness as they were not given a just representation in the bodycount. It is unfair to both adults and kids.

Freedom is measured by killing in those type of products.
This thread is about players complaining they can not kill kids.
These products are scripted, they are story driven.
So far, not that many petitions about not killing characters that are supposed to be killed because of the plot.
Players have zero issue with being forcefed the casual victims for their killing streaks. They do not demand to make up their mind about who to kill and who not to kill.
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