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June 28th, 2019, 17:38
Originally Posted by Carnifex View Post
Pee Wee Herman films most definitely count! Those I find highly amusing, if you go into them with a Monty Python state of mind.
My apologies for belittling the mighty Pee Wee, I feel bad now
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June 29th, 2019, 16:33
Besides, one of the imho very best James Bond like title sings is the title song of The Life Of Brian.

And, by the way, the title song of the game "Evil Genius" is also very good Bond-movie like.
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July 1st, 2019, 16:28
Yes, Life of Brian does have a very Bondesque opening track, nice spot.

Another event happened to upset production of Bond 25 today. In case you're unaware, no.25 is having quite the cursed production which has seen the release date go from Nov 2019 to Feb 2020 and is now way off in Apr 2020.

A brief history of the troubles:

Apr 2016: Start putting everything together, calling people etc.
Apr 2017: Sony's distribution rights expire, Universal win the new contract to distribute.
Feb 2018: Danny Boyle is hired as director, he then scraps the script already proposed and brings in his own guy.
Aug 2018: Danny Boyle quits and takes his writer with him.
Sep 2018: Joji Fukunaga is hired to direct, brings Haggis (Casino Royale) back to work on the original script.
Feb 2019: Another script writer arrives to work on the screenplay.
Apr 2019: Craig brings in his own script fluffer to add humour and realism.
May 2019: Craig busts his ankle while filming.
Jun 2019: Explosion at Pinewood Studio's 007 set.

And now today Grace Jones has walked out, refusing to do her nostalgia cameo because she feels the part is too insignificant.

Oh well, it's Craig's last hurrah so it doesn't really matter how it turns out, he's had a good run and whether it's good or bad it'll be all change anyway should Bond 26 ever get made. The main known hype for no.25 that we know so far is:

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July 3rd, 2019, 16:23
Just going back to @Zloth 's post for a minute here while I'm still thinking about this stuff:

Originally Posted by Zloth View Post
Live & Let Die definitely wins the best Bond music award. Well… probably. I haven't been watching the new ones.
From a connoisseur point of view, the Craig era has a whole lot more to offer than most of the Bonds from the 80s and 90s and if you haven't tried them out yet then you are missing out on some great technical filmmaking, and yes, music definitely included.

In terms of cinematogrophy, check out the following short action scene from Skyfall. It's the kind of scene that makes you realise you're watching something better than average, the kind of scene you can take with you for the rest of your life. One of the top YouTube comments being "It's only 30 seconds long and done entirely in shadow but it's one of my favourite fight scenes of all time!" with 100 likes. You could be watching Bladerunner or some uber artsy masterpiece that only people who go to Cannes ever see, but, no, you're watching a mass market action film:

loading…


As for new quality soundtracks, I'll pick something out from the very latest one, just to be sure I'm providing something new to you. The following scene is the first third of the opening sequence to Spectre (2015), a scene which one youtuber commented "Would argue this is the best opening to a Bond movie ever" and got 576 likes for doing so. Pay close attention to not only the visual splendour but also the masterful use of music:

loading…


And the above is the preamble to one of the best Bond sounds of the new era, Los Muertos Vivos Estan, which, in the long version includes the above as an intro, but if you just want to go straight to that superb musical sound without the evocative preamble, depending on what mood you're in, then the following track is one that gets better and better the more times you play it, as noted by the top commentor who states "the only problem with this song is that it doenst last long enough" and was agreed with by 129 people:

loading…


As is ever the case with a Bond movie, you can never guarantee that anyone will like the ones you are talking about, there are so many individual elements to each when taken in full, but what I do when I watch them is challenge them to provide me moments of quality entertainment that I simply can't get anywhere else, and if it achieves this I'm a happy bunny. For me, even if the rest of the film was shit (which they aren't), the above scenes by themselves are examples of scenes that are worth the price of admission alone. They are both scenes which typify what is unique about the sophistication of a Bond movie and the music track is an example of how the series can provide sounds and sound cues/feels like no other currently known entity IMO.
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July 3rd, 2019, 17:23
I quite like View to a Kill and the other Roger Moore Bond films. I liked all of his Bond films and thought that this role was made for him.

I also enjoyed Tim Dalton's two Bond movies.

Don't care about the recent Bond films, and Brosnan films were forgettable in my view.
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July 3rd, 2019, 19:04
Originally Posted by SpoonFULL View Post
I quite like View to a Kill and the other Roger Moore Bond films. I liked all of his Bond films and thought that this role was made for him.
Moore was indeed made for the role, having already been a major spy star of the 1960s spy boom, only he was on television as The Saint (1962-1969) and it was because of his contract to this that he didn't play bond until 1973. Had he had slightly better timing in this regard he would have been Bond for both Majesty's Secret Service and Diamonds are Forever as well.

It's funny that you like Moore and Dalton while disliking or not mentioning anyone else, those two are diametrically opposed Bonds, Dalton even refused the roll after it was felt Moore was too old after Moonraker because Dalton really hated the more campy direction of the Moore era. I guess it just goes to show how there's so many factors involved in enjoying a Bond film that no simple single explanation or reason is all-telling, even when another person would view them as "all the same thing really".
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July 15th, 2019, 23:48
Hold onto your hats folks:

Reports are circulating today that in Bond 25 Bond has retired & is called back into service to help out a new 007: A lovely black lady who will be playing the new 007.

Some people are immediately knee jerking a response that this will be the new Bond for the series, however, there's no evidence of this yet. For all we know she might die in the movie. Or they might just be using her to 'test the waters'.

Needless to say there are some pretty clickbaity headlines circulating as a result of this news ranging from the absurdly panicky to the absurdly 'get over it, you bigot' and I suspect you can predict the nature of the conversation.

Bond has played alongside lovely black ladies who have also been agents on a number of occasions, so there's no reason to comment at all yet IMO. But if the new Bond in future movies is not going to be James Bond then, well obviously, any new movies wont be James Bond movies LOL, and Bond 25 might well be the last James Bond movie.
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July 16th, 2019, 00:00
Clickbait rumors yes.

It'd be interesting if you could also find total gross from these movies:
Our Man Flint
In Like Flint
Our Man Flint: Dead on Target
Il vostro super agente Flit

I've watched the first two and are fun thanks to poisonous arrows towards Hollywood cliches in that time and Coburn's charm. The third one I've refused to watch, it's not Coburn so go home.

The fourth one is sadly impossible to find anywhere apart from OST on CD (screenarchives). Probably never got it's DVD release.
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July 16th, 2019, 00:05
Jamie Bond, perhaps? I seriously doubt they'd go this route, no one would want to jeopardize such a storied franchise, they may indeed be testing the waters and I suspect they'll find them downright chilly.
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July 16th, 2019, 00:17
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
It'd be interesting if you could also find total gross from these movies:
Our Man Flint
In Like Flint
Our Man Flint: Dead on Target
Il vostro super agente Flit

I've watched the first two and are fun thanks to poisonous arrows towards Hollywood cliches in that time and Coburn's charm. The third one I've refused to watch, it's not Coburn so go home.

The fourth one is sadly impossible to find anywhere apart from OST on CD (screenarchives). Probably never got it's DVD release.
The first one grossed $16m and the second $11m, making them respectable movies for the time, a modern equivalent gross would be $130m and $84m respectively, similar to how something like John Wick performs domestically in the US.

The third one was a TV movie, so no stats at all, obviously. And the fourth one was made in Italy and only had an Italian release by the look of it.
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July 16th, 2019, 00:19
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
…For all we know she might die in the movie. Or they might just be using her to 'test the waters'.

Needless to say there are some pretty clickbaity headlines circulating as a result of this…
yep. in the end people will just go see it because it says "James Bond" (it will be Daniel Craig) and wish they hadn't, wondering why after the first Jason Bourne Daniel Craig James Bond was good and why they couldn't put out a decent sequel.

An obvious missed opportunity was Miss Moneypenny coming in to save his rear then bombing with a decent but still formulaic spinoff.

loading…
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July 21st, 2019, 20:23
So I've now finished researching all the YouTube vids related to this topic from users who have any kind of following.

The overwhelming consensus was negative. And I do mean overwhelming. As you can imagine, quite a few of the video were from right wing commentators and people who became associated with gamergate, or who generally make a living out of regular videos about such things, these were to be expected.

What was added on top of this to make it overwhelming was that just about everyone else didn't like it either. All the black guy vloggers didn't like it just as much as any white guy vloggers, who mostly seemed confused by the decision. But not only this but pretty much all the female vloggers didn't like the idea either.

I even saw one vlog by a popular black female feminist who was really quite upset about it all. Even without any interest in Bond, her hot-take was a surprisingly accurate one about how whenever black women are represented in big action movies they're always portrayed as "bald, aggressive, overly-independent", and "where's my black petite and cute feminine types that quite like the idea of supportive males.". And she meant black black, not brown black.

And thinking about this, she makes a really great point. This was the video which made me think the most and when I did think about it all I could think about were the many examples of crew-cutted ultra-aggressive black ladies in big action movies.

I saw two videos which were unabashedly positive about the move. One was a sort of 'nerd culture' type magazine programme where the smiles seemed glued on and the script heavily pre-planned, eyes strangely focused and borderline psychotic etc. Even their vid had vastly more downvotes than upvotes, even by the standard of their own fans. And this was the case with all vids that showed anything other than scepticism.

The other unabashedly positive one was the most viewed but also least youtubey, that of the Daily Show with Steven Colbert, who got a huge whoop of cheers and excitement from his studio audience as he relayed the information with a huge grin on his face, presumably because this news will annoy his enemies on 'the right', even though Bond has never been a political boundary kind of franchise and, if it was, it's more communistic than free-market, what with Bond being a function of the taxman and all. Even his vid had vastly more downvotes than upvotes.

There were about three other videos that liked the news, but in each case they liked it because the video consisted of them taking the piss out of Ben Shapiro's reaction, to which I've no doubt they do on a weekly basis whatever the topic. And I have to admit, even if you don't like the news, Ben Shapiro is a laughably weird social commentator and one can't help liking a popular YouTube commenter who stated "This is all just a really expensive way to piss of Ben Shapiro isn't it." And there's probably more truth in that than anything else.

The main issue seems to be the line that's crossed when the moniker 007 is given to anyone other than James Bond. Had she been 008 or 005 or whatever then no-one would have batted an eyelid. But it seems the person who wrote her as 007 wanted people to bat their eyelids, which is what the problem is, it seems so forced and designed to be intentionally controversial that it kinda stumbles like a poorly timed joke rather than catch any particular right-on relevant mood.

There's been a certain segment of society that has never liked Bond, even in 1962:



And they always have been just an extremely vocal minority who sometimes manage to get their way. This current lot aren't so worried about the violence though it seems, just as long as a woman's performing it then it's ok

My favourite comment I saw on any of the videos was "Great, at least now my collection will be complete!" Which if you don't have the collector gene you will probably not understand or appreciate.
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July 21st, 2019, 20:27
Originally Posted by Lucky Day View Post
yep. in the end people will just go see it because it says "James Bond" (it will be Daniel Craig) and wish they hadn't, wondering why after the first Jason Bourne Daniel Craig James Bond was good and why they couldn't put out a decent sequel.

An obvious missed opportunity was Miss Moneypenny coming in to save his rear then bombing with a decent but still formulaic spinoff.

loading…
Yes, there are loads of options to expand the universe that don't involve fucking with the fans

Craig isn't so bad you know, the ones with him in have a lot of merits and if you don't think Skyfall is a decent sequel then you're just being very hard to please IMO. I get it if you don't like it, I just don't agree with the notion that they couldn't put out a decent sequel, that just sounds like forced try-hardism rather than you simply saying you didn't like it.
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July 23rd, 2019, 15:46
Felix Lighter died today, he was 92! Which Felix Lighter? The good one, of course, from Live and Let Die and Licence to Kill.

In memory of this fine personality from the series I thought I'd do another statistical trawl into the Bond universe, this time I'll see who's still left alive from the very first one from 1962:

The two biggest names are still rocking it:

Shaun Connery, 88
Ursula Andress, 83

But also some memorable bit parters:

Yvonne Shima - Unknown age, last seen in 2013, she played the Oriental Bond person of female designation.
Marguerite LeWars - 80/81, played the lovely Jamaican female photographer.
Nikki Van Der Zyl - 84, who did a lot of the dubbed voice acting, including Ursula Andress' voice.

And that's it for the cast barring severe extras whom I couldn't be bothered to trawl.

Of those that looked interesting from the crew side of things:

Stanley Sopel, 94, one of the early lesser known producers still seems to be alive.
Johanna Harwood, 88/89, was a contributory writer.
Monty Norman, 91, the guy who wrote the famous Bond Theme is still around.
Clive Reed, 86/87, an Assistant Director hasn't claimed he's dead yet.
Steve Emerson, Dinny Powell, Rocky Taylor, 84,86,74 are all stunt people who are living proof that stuntwork is no guarantee to a short life.
Also alive it seems are a dubbing editor, a matte artist, an electrician, a location manager, a guitarist, a saxophonist and likely a bunch of other people who have long since stopped bothering to update their on-line profiles, or maybe they wanted to but a lack of life prevented them, who knows.

Amazing really. Nearly 60 years ago that movie came out and no-one involved was a child and yet even today they could hold a reunion party and still get a roomful. There probably wouldn't be much dancing but I'm sure there'd be no end of pill-taking!
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July 23rd, 2019, 19:46
At the risk of getting into race issues, the black feminist vlogger does have a point about black female representation of the tall aggressive black female. Contrary to popular understanding, it is a twist on the old stereotype (and not against it) that whites portrayed by showing role reversals in black families - that the wife was aggressive and in charge (re: the Halle Berry Bond girl). Its a trope that that is in the American collective unconscious but has surprisingly turned into a positive stereotype to a degree. This is just Hollyweird's latest take on it.

--

I have to look at your Bond eras a little differently even if that's the canon/consensus.

Casino Royale (1954) TV Special

North by Northwest (1959) (not a Bond, but the inspiration for the movies' style)

Dr. No (1962)
From Russia with Love (1963)
Goldfinger (1964)
Thunderball (1965)
Casino Royale (1967)
You Only Live Twice (1967)
On Her Majesty's Secret Service (1969)
Diamonds Are Forever (1971)
Live and Let Die (1973)
The Man with the Golden Gun -1974
The Spy Who Loved Me (1977)
Moonraker (1979)
For Your Eyes Only (1981)
Octopussy (1983)
Never Say Never Again (1983)
A View to a Kill (1985)

Casino Royale (1967) ("official" comedy with David Niven as real "Sir" James Bond and 6 others in disguise as the namesake)

The Living Daylights (1987)
Licence to Kill (1989)

GoldenEye (1995)
Tomorrow Never Dies (1997)
The World Is Not Enough (1999)
Die Another Day (2002)

Casino Royale (2006)
Quantum of Solace (2008)
Skyfall (2012)
Spectre (2015)

The Connery, Lazenby, and Moore Bonds are the same Bond and in the same canon. Everyone else, however, is their own Bond (though Dalton and Brosnan don't come out and say it. Craig OTH, is an obvious reboot starting with the original book). The Brosnan ones are a little weird as we start to see the actors change for "M".

There was some thought the Craig and Brosnan Bonds are the same character until we find out that the Helen Miran M's are different with different last names IIRC.

Unlike you, I place Never Say Never as official but in a somewhat weird place - apocryphal isn't the right word if something is legit.

Strangely enough, the original Casino Royale I find is not really a parody (though it is) and originally wasn't planned to be a comedy.

North by Northwest, Cary Grant, if you stamped James Bond on his head I'm not sure people would realize he's not.
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July 23rd, 2019, 23:20
Just going to clear up some of your confused thoughts even though I know where you're coming from, the sheer quantity of misunderstood stuff probably leads to your perception.

Cary Grant was originally going to play Bond. He was a close friend of the producers, a very close friend. The scene in From Russia With Love (1963) where Bond recreates a scene from North By Northwest is a fully intentional homage.

Connery, Lazenby and Moore are not at all the same canon in that Bond has never had canon and each Bond is intentionally markedly different to their predecessor, to which the series has been rebooted a number of times even in those days.

The most notable reboot of the older era was after The Spy Who Loved Me when it was felt that it was time to tone down Bond once more and ground him from the more hyper fantasy exploits, hence at the end of The Spy Who Loved Me the "Bond will return in" message was "For Your Eyes Only".

Because of the success of Star Wars they changed their mind and decided to film Moonraker instead, delaying For Your Eyes Only until 1981, when Dalton was, for the second time, asked to play Bond in a rebooted less fantasy Bond. Dalton again refused and Moore, weirdly, continued for the rebooted era, which was then itself sabotaged by the announcement that the rival producer, the one who owned the rights to Thunderball, was going to reboot Thunderball as Never Say Never Again, to which the main series responded by going back to fantasy Bond and Octopussy.

It's was in this time that you didn't notice that M changed as well. Bernhard Lee died in 1981, meaning the first new M was in For Your Eyes Only and he remained the new M for all the 1980s Bonds. He was 74 when Goldeneye was being made & so a new M was chosen, not Helen Mirren, but Judy Dench, as the series' very apt answer to feminism at that time, a version of feminism that worked extremely well in canon as M is usually a bitch to Bond either male or female. Dench covers both the Brosnan and Craig era with no change in charatcer.

The books are filmed out of order and continuity has never been a feature of the series, even though fans like any references and usually over-romantisise any cross-over issues, such as complaining that Bond barely ever references his lost love after On Her Majesty's Secret Service, though when he does some people got really excited. Further, many of the films don't match the books because by some bizarre weirdness of legality they owned a lot of titles to the books, but not the contents of the books.

The reason the books were filmed out of order was because Eon Productions never had the rights to either Casino Royale or Thunderball, just all the others. Thunderball got made because they allowed a co-production with the owner of that rights package. Casino Royale, however, has never been in their hands, and the 1967 Parody Casino Royale was exactly that due to the bitterness of the owner of those rights. It was a good old fashioned fuck you.

It was only in the early 2000s that they finally got the rights to Casino Royale, hence they made Casino Royale. It feels like a reboot because they suddenly were able to finally film the first book in the series which also coincided with a new Bond in Craig. Quantum of Solace was also a Fleming short story, the first two actual books to be filmed since The Living Daylights.

Which is another marker of the sense of change in the series as The Living Daylights was the last actual book title, after that they were literally making it all up (until Casino Royale), hence Licence to Kill through to Die Another Day seem 'different some how'.

On top of this Cubby Broccoli died in 1996. He was the No.1 producer for all the Bond films. The main person directing the progress of the series. Even on Goldeneye (1995) he was in such poor health that he wasn't really active, just a sort of observer. When your primary dictator leaves then there's going to be a loss of sense of continuity however well you mimic him.

So the series, in terms of canons is much more:

Quite like the books, normal Bond:

Dr. No (1962)
From Russia With Love (1963)

Fantasy Bond:

Goldfinger (1964) to Diamonds are Forever (1971)

Rebooted Bond:

Live and Let Die and The Man With the Golden Gun (1973 and 4)

Back to fantasy Bond:

The Spy Who Loved Me and Moonraker (1977 and 9)

Rebooted Bond:

For Your Eyes Only (1981)

Back to fantasy Bond:

Octopussy and A View to a Kill (1983 and 5)

Rebooted Bond:

The Living Daylights and Licence to Kill (1987 and 9)

Big break during legal battles

Back to fantasy Bond for the Brosnan era

Attaining the rights to Casino Royale & another rebooted Bond.

The change in lead character and other actors is mostly coincidental and very often the Bond you see wasn't even the originally intended Bond for the movie but because you, as the viewer of the final product, only really see the main characters you automatically connect the stars to the eras. For example, if Dalton had been more friendly towards the series he could well have been Bond from 1969 all the way to the late 1990s. For Her Majesty's Secret Service he said he was too young (23), for For Your Eyes Only he said he didn't like the campy direction of the series, even though for FYEO they had deliberately written the least campy script since 1963. He was also supposed to do Goldeneye but said he was fed up of it all by then.

The most probable reason you have such a sharp sense of incongruity between A View to a Kill and The Living Daylights is because both Bond and Moneypenny changed between those two films, and you never noticed the already changed M, even though everything else about the production was exactly as it had always been.

However, I'm not denying you your right to pigeon hole the series however you see fit, because that's exactly what everyone does with the series. Everyone has their own personal canon and that's what makes the series so interesting for so many people. One might even compare it to the classical music notion of variations upon a theme where classical music buffs argue infinitely about the 'correct' way to play the exact same piece of music.
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July 24th, 2019, 00:00
Pretty fascinating.

And that lack of continuity does make sense. The back and forth of outrageous sci-fi Bond and down to earth spy Bond was always a controversy I remember - meeting its extreme in Moonraker, up till then the best selling of the Bonds. And it was terrible.

I never knew that Dalton was asked to play it much earlier. He's had a pretty storied career that has gone under the radar until he finally played Bond. I shouldn't be surprised though as a lot of people have been asked including Adam West (contract obligations) and Patrick McGoohan (refused on the ground he didn't want to play a misogynist as a hero).

I wasn't confused by Cary Grant being offered the role because I didn't know about it. I just watch NxNW and I was shocked at how much it looked like a Bond film and put two and two together - right down to the tuxedo.

I remember hearing that Brosnan was the popular choice to replace Moore but that the people who did Remington Steele wouldn't let him out of his contract. Its one of the reasons he was chosen to do Noble House and the reason Dalton got the part. It seemed like everyone was waiting for Dalton to be done to rush out and see Brosnan in the role.

You can correct me if I'm wrong on all that too.

I can't believe I've been mixing up Dame Judy Dench with Dame Helen Miram all this time. At least I didn't mix up John Cleese.
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July 24th, 2019, 00:16
No, that's all correct, no correcting to be done there (apart from the fact that Moonkraker is a great movie, a truly unique specimen that should be prized rather than derided )

Yes, with Cubby Broccoli at the helm for so long, 1962-1996, he'd basically assessed every person he'd ever met as to their potential to play Bond, that was his primary specialism. He'd 'collected' both Dalton and Brosnan from a very early age and I guess 'nagged' them continuously as a result as soon as they were old enough. We were inches away from having both James Brolin and Sam Neil as Bond as well, both their auditions are available to watch even, but Broccoli always managed to get his personal picks at the last minute or they'd bottle and try to keep the established face..
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July 24th, 2019, 02:27
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
Reports are circulating today that in Bond 25 Bond has retired & is called back into service to help out a new 007: A lovely black lady who will be playing the new 007.
Oh, wow, sounds great! I can't wait! It's about time 007 became a black woman. I wonder why it took so long! Right, guys?!
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July 24th, 2019, 09:03
Originally Posted by SirJames View Post
Oh, wow, sounds great! I can't wait! It's about time 007 became a black woman. I wonder why it took so long! Right, guys?!
I recommend anyone to watch this video reaction to the news. I've chosen this lady to present because she is both, well, obviously, a female, but also because she's a lovely black lady and also a real Bond fan. She makes all the salient points about why the news report was eye rolling rather than popcorn dropping and she does it in a very intelligent and entertaining way:

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[and this is even a different black lady to the one I mentioned earlier]
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