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Default Fallout 76 players say the Atom shop prices are getting out of hand

December 19th, 2018, 21:09
Fools and their money are quickly parted, I suppose.
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December 19th, 2018, 21:42
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
In regards to Chiens post, how much Atom shop currency can you get by simply playing the game a reasonable appoint of time? Is it constant grinding for weeks or months to reach that 1.8k or is it doable for anyone?

Not that it actually matters to me since I'm no longer part of Beths target audience, but it does matter when comparing real money and in game currencies.
I have bought a few items and currently have 3340 atoms. I haven't spent a ¢ outside of initial purchase price. However, I love starting over with new characters. Most of your atoms come in the early game. Creating a character, completing the "firsts" of most actions, etc. Since I've probably played 10+ characters already, I have a huge jump on someone who is just trying to max out the game.
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December 20th, 2018, 14:17
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
In regards to Chiens post, how much Atom shop currency can you get by simply playing the game a reasonable appoint of time? Is it constant grinding for weeks or months to reach that 1.8k or is it doable for anyone?

Not that it actually matters to me since I'm no longer part of Beths target audience, but it does matter when comparing real money and in game currencies.
Reasonable is pretty inadequate when dealing with the exposed behaviour: players ranting about cosmetic items that can be acquired with ingame currency. And find equivalency to items like TW3 that must be bought with money.

Same stuff as usual: cultural players who play vid products to be seen as gamers.
Who managed to see the end goal of playing FO76 as acquiring these cosmetic items.

You could have imagined there were other stuff to do in this product and that acquiring those cosmetic items would be received for what it is: a side product of playing the product.

After reading the comments in the article section, none pointed out that once you have gained 18 000 atom in game and spent on the item worth 18 000, it is like earning or saving $18.

Yet, by their own line of thought, they should have reached that conclusion: play the product, earn 18 000 atoms, and save $18.

These guys have no interest in being gamers. They want to be perceived as gamers though and feel that kind of economic model for what it is to them: a tax.
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December 20th, 2018, 20:25
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
After reading the comments in the article section, none pointed out that once you have gained 18 000 atom in game and spent on the item worth 18 000, it is like earning or saving $18.
They do not earn anything, and you hardly save 18$ if the item is not worth the 18$ price to begin with.

In fact, they lost something. The time they wasted on acquiring 18000 atoms.
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December 20th, 2018, 20:42
Chien does have a point though, if you play the game because you enjoy it and you gain Atoms along the way, buying cosmetics for those points isn't exactly a problem is it? Not that I approve of IAP's, it has completely destroyed the entire mobile market in particular, but if it's only cosmetic stuff and you can get it but playing the game I can live auth it.
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December 20th, 2018, 21:58
The problem will be if these lunchboxes that are in the code, but not yet in the game, start adding game changing bonuses to those ATOM purchases.
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December 20th, 2018, 22:13
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
Chien does have a point though, if you play the game because you enjoy it and you gain Atoms along the way, buying cosmetics for those points isn't exactly a problem is it?
Yeah, I could agree to that statement.

If that would be the problem, any game which uses some ingame acquired funds would have the same problem. The only difference would be the level of immersion, due to the game-external nature of the shop.

The problem is, there are people who actually buy Atoms, and essentially get cheated. I'm not willing to put the blame for that only on these individuals. The pricing tactics and nature of the sold items are… well, bordering on fraud.
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December 21st, 2018, 02:50
This sort of stuff to me has always been a victimless crime, or a non-issue. If people want to spend $18 for in-game paint sets or something, I say go for it. If they're willing to pay for it and want it, that's their choice. As long as kids aren't stealing credit cards to do it, what's the harm? I've played MMOs before and never purchased items other than the additional content stuff, but if others want to then I say let them have at it. Same with DLC that generally gets frowned up. Why do I care about DLC I won't buy if others want it? Let 'em have it, doesn't affect me.

Why would a player say "these prices are getting out of hand!" as if they're forced to purchase the items? Just don't buy them, nobody is making you.
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December 21st, 2018, 03:02
Well one video that explains why we have games like this.

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December 21st, 2018, 14:02
Originally Posted by TheRealFluent View Post
This sort of stuff to me has always been a victimless crime, or a non-issue. If people want to spend $18 for in-game paint sets or something, I say go for it. If they're willing to pay for it and want it, that's their choice. As long as kids aren't stealing credit cards to do it, what's the harm? I've played MMOs before and never purchased items other than the additional content stuff, but if others want to then I say let them have at it. Same with DLC that generally gets frowned up. Why do I care about DLC I won't buy if others want it? Let 'em have it, doesn't affect me.

Why would a player say "these prices are getting out of hand!" as if they're forced to purchase the items? Just don't buy them, nobody is making you.
While I understand where you're coming from, the harm is a change in culture. People vote with their wallets for a certain trend. So if the demand for products like this is high enough finally "all" publishers'/devs' business models will change. In this case a likely direction is pay to win. The step from "If people want to spend $18 for in-game paint sets or something, I say go for it." to "If people want to spend $18 for 10% more damage, I say go for it." is small. Another direction is meaningful contect cut out and sold later as micro-transaction. Imagine Pathfinder:Kingmaker where in the base version you only have Fighter, Rogue and Wizard classes. Each additional class costs $5. At the latest when this happens you will care?

However there's nothing you (or any other single person) can do against this trend.
So the end result of just ignoring stuff like this is the same as in your approach. The difference might be a casual rant here and there.
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December 21st, 2018, 14:18
The situation got out of control.

The loot boxes scandal was such, still you could still find excuses as players who bought loot boxes were ensured to get first quality items (normal since they paid for it) while the same content was available to other players after a couple of tries to get it.

In this case, there is no difference: players get ingame what othes get for money on the first try.

Cosmetic stuff and players rage as if there were nothing else to expect from the vid product. You can not play that product without getting that cosmetic stuff, if you do not, it is ruined.

The destruction of gaming.


Originally Posted by Cacheperl View Post
Yeah, I could agree to that statement.

If that would be the problem, any game which uses some ingame acquired funds would have the same problem. The only difference would be the level of immersion, due to the game-external nature of the shop.
External nature, players can buy with ingame currency.

Immersion, great. People do not read threads: one cosmetic item is a christmas attire. It is christmas time so it must be christmas time in this vid product too.

So much for escapism and so called escapists too: it is christmas time so the way to escape is to get christmas time in the vid product. What about a muslim religious thing. That would be escapism.
The problem is, there are people who actually buy Atoms, and essentially get cheated. I'm not willing to put the blame for that only on these individuals. The pricing tactics and nature of the sold items are… well, bordering on fraud.
Originally Posted by Cacheperl View Post
They do not earn anything, and you hardly save 18$ if the item is not worth the 18$ price to begin with.

In fact, they lost something. The time they wasted on acquiring 18000 atoms.
It is more like a tax than a fraud: players do not want to spend time playing the game and still want a token showing they've played the game, to satisfy their sense of belonging.
They want to belong without being, they pay.

The crowdfunded scene has done little for board gaming but it sure has helped speculation.

It is quite common for crowdfunded projects to flood players with minis (hence the crafted expression kiloplastic)

So they offer minis that are going to be available through retail and exclusives to the crowdfunded project.

Price of the minis available later through retail:0,5 to $1 per unit, exclusive: 5 to $10 and later auctioned to prices like $100.

No difference in quality between minis by the way.

The big, bad corps have a lot to learn from the crowdfunded movement in terms of manipulation of value.
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December 21st, 2018, 14:29
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
While I understand where you're coming from, the harm is a change in culture. People vote with their wallets for a certain trend. So if the demand for products like this is high enough finally "all" publishers'/devs' business models will change. In this case a likely direction is pay to win. The step from "If people want to spend $18 for in-game paint sets or something, I say go for it." to "If people want to spend $18 for 10% more damage, I say go for it." is small. Another direction is meaningful contect cut out and sold later as micro-transaction. Imagine Pathfinder:Kingmaker where in the base version you only have Fighter, Rogue and Wizard classes. Each additional class costs $5. At the latest when this happens you will care?

However there's nothing you (or any other single person) can do against this trend.
So the end result of just ignoring stuff like this is the same as in your approach. The difference might be a casual rant here and there.
Mental contortionism. That is not even the situation. That has never been the situation. Already stated many times, these days, people speculate against stuff that is very unlikely to happen to distract from speculation about stuff is likely to happen.

In this vid product, the items bought with money or ingame currency are the same.
If ever they went off the cosmetic route, it would still take to offer a different item to those who bought with money. Because as it stands, the 10 pc upgrade would still be available to players with ingame currency.

Nothing new: gaming is now a cultural activity and people want the social benefits of belonging to a gamer population segment while they have no interest in gaming.
Hence they are inclined to buy cultural tags to feel and show they belong.

Players who play this product: zero issue for them, they are so they belong. They may even consider not buying that kind of cosmetic stuff since they do not need it to belong.

Players who desire to belong without playing: they are taxed, they need that kind of cosmetic stuff to belong.
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December 21st, 2018, 14:32
And the big bad corps forcing ruining economical models… The crowdfunded scene is so ahead they are no longer in the same league.
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December 21st, 2018, 15:19
@ChienAboyeur, sorry, but again I fail to understand what you're trying to say.
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December 21st, 2018, 15:21
Originally Posted by TheRealFluent View Post
Why would a player say "these prices are getting out of hand!" as if they're forced to purchase the items? Just don't buy them, nobody is making you.
I don't buy… that argument.

There's no contradiction between "prices are getting out of hand" and "I dont buy the product". In fact, the former leads to the latter.

And neither of the two excludes the right to object.
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December 21st, 2018, 17:35
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
@ChienAboyeur, sorry, but again I fail to understand what you're trying to say.
Apart from his Crowdfunding rants I actually think he makes sense, and in regards to crowdfunding I know he has some kind of grudge with it so I'll just agree to disagree…
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December 22nd, 2018, 00:28
Originally Posted by Cacheperl View Post
I don't buy… that argument.

There's no contradiction between "prices are getting out of hand" and "I dont buy the product". In fact, the former leads to the latter.

And neither of the two excludes the right to object.
Hey, object all you want, which is what I just said - don't buy it. That's the biggest objection you can make. If you are a player and want to object, you can do so verbally too of course, no one's saying not to. But I don't walk into a restaurant and see a meal is $100 too expensive, and then say, "damn, these prices are getting out of hand!" and then order their lobster dinner.
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December 22nd, 2018, 14:17
Originally Posted by Morrandir View Post
@ChienAboyeur, sorry, but again I fail to understand what you're trying to say.
And? After all these years…

Things do not need to be understood or reported as understood to happen.

And that is when speculation against the future ticks in: things happen or do not happen. Confirmation or infirmation.

Future will tell where this kind of model will lead to.
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December 22nd, 2018, 14:49
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
And that is when speculation against the future ticks in: things happen or do not happen. Confirmation or infirmation.
Schrödinger's Cat ?
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December 26th, 2018, 23:30
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
Chien does have a point though, if you play the game because you enjoy it and you gain Atoms along the way, buying cosmetics for those points isn't exactly a problem is it? Not that I approve of IAP's, it has completely destroyed the entire mobile market in particular, but if it's only cosmetic stuff and you can get it but playing the game I can live auth it.
Hardly..and it's a bit ironic people say you're "unaffected" when Bethesda is the one that started with



This, like with Star Citizen, is plain despicable practice that exploits "fanboyism"/younger audience. I mean if you saw an adult on a street trying to sell a kid a Kinder egg for 50$, would you say: "It's on you, if you fall for it."Laws exist exactly to prevent this kind of shit, reason why lootboxes were banned in some countries. It's pathetic some are actually saying: well don't buy it, if you don't like it or doing mental acrobatics to justify it.
Also recently, it seems they again did false advertising and they're also selling fake "Nuka rum" bottles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzhDkM_QWAo
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