Obsidian Entertainment - Tim Cain Joins?

The way its going, it looks like if Obsidian doesn't come up with something as good as Torment or better, your souls will be all destroyed… better not get too excited yet....

If you played VTMB without patches you definitely came across severe bug that was hard to get around.

DArtagnan said:

I think banning people for one non-PC remark is extreme. Lots of people are sickened by gays - and it's a natural reaction if you're repressing something or just uncomfortable with people not being like yourself.

Many don't say it openly, however, but that in itself is hardly cause for a permanent ban. At least, I like the Watch for being calm about such things.

Anyway, this isn't the thread for this debate.

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I second this response everyone is entitled there opinion. The world today is to sensitive. Political correctness at work. That's all I will say.

The news post though is good news lets hope he is not making a new mmo.

There's a difference between having an opinion and posting it in a forum not related to the topic.

rossrjensen said:

My point is that I haven't had the problems others seem to have had, but they have been some of the highest quality/depth games I have ever played. So, I guess I have very little problem with them being buggy as long as they continue making great games (and eventually solve the bugs with patches…).

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While there are often issues I think they often tend to get overblown. One thing people tend to forget too is that the reason RPG tend get buggier than most is because they are way more complex kind of games. Its one thing to debug a linear dumb fps... Its another to debug a sandbox rpg with a crazy amount of c&c like New Vegas.

That being say I feel the bigger issues for NV and Alpha Protocol came from the console versions. Hell I played AP day one and didnt had any crash or bug at all... Id argue the game was very stable but then there were people who complained about bugs thay really were feature. Feh.

But I feel the bugs aspect of Obsidian's games is way overblown. None of their games came anywere close to disasters like Ultima IX, Gothic 3 (or worse Forsaken Gods), or Bloodlines and it wasnt worst than say... Bethesdas games.

And personnaly I can certainly say I can live with a few bugs (which in all likelyhood with be patched out anyway) if thats the trade off for such quality gaming.

-Sergorn

KapitanUnterhosen said:

the fact that Tim Cain will be working on real rpgs instead of mmos is good news.

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Hear, hear!

Drithius said:

In other news, Obsidian announces new Steampunk IP blending elements of Fallout and Arcanum! Chris Avellone and newly-hired Tim Cain are expected to lead the project.

Oh, I can dream.

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Now, that certainly would be a dream come true.

Riddam said:

With Dungeon siege 3, I have virtually lost all hope for them. But this at least is good news. Maybe they can actually churn out an RPG now.

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My impression of Obsidian Entertainment is that the only good games they make are ones where Chris Avellone has a lot of design influence. So basically, every game except NWN2: Storm of Zehir and Dungeon Siege III. If OE would put these two together designing a RPG we might have something special.

I actually enjoyed SoZ ~.~ No experience with DS3 though.

Above all, what I adore about Obsidian is that they rarely settle and experiment more than most studios.

NWN2 != MotB != SoZ
Alpha Protocol != Yet another FPS with stealth

I'm just playing DS3 and honestly i can't understand all the hate this game gets. I'd say it's a solid title and does some things better than any Dungeon Siege game before. For the first time the story and especially the setting actually feels a notch above pukeworthy generic fantasy. They completely dropped the ball with the corridor like levels though. But when Mass Effects can get away with shit like that i don't understand why it's such a big crime here.

tolknaz said:

I'm just playing DS3 and honestly i can't understand all the hate this game gets. I'd say it's a solid title and does some things better than any Dungeon Siege game before. For the first time the story and especially the setting actually feels a notch above pukeworthy generic fantasy. They completely dropped the ball with the corridor like levels though. But when Mass Effects can get away with shit like that i don't understand why it's such a big crime here.

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I enjoyed the game the problem for me was was the interface and controls. Sill I would love to see a full length rpg from the engine. Though you are right you have to love double standards there everywhere.

guenthar said:

If you played VTMB without patches you definitely came across severe bug that was hard to get around.

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I have played a later version of VTMB I believe. Still haven't played it all the way through. Same goes for TOEE. I own both of them, right now they're both in my ever-growing back-log.

Sergorn said:

While there are often issues I think they often tend to get overblown. One thing people tend to forget too is that the reason RPG tend get buggier than most is because they are way more complex kind of games. Its one thing to debug a linear dumb fps… Its another to debug a sandbox rpg with a crazy amount of c&c like New Vegas.

That being say I feel the bigger issues for NV and Alpha Protocol came from the console versions. Hell I played AP day one and didnt had any crash or bug at all… Id argue the game was very stable but then there were people who complained about bugs thay really were feature. Feh.

But I feel the bugs aspect of Obsidian's games is way overblown. None of their games came anywere close to disasters like Ultima IX, Gothic 3 (or worse Forsaken Gods), or Bloodlines and it wasnt worst than say… Bethesdas games.

And personnaly I can certainly say I can live with a few bugs (which in all likelyhood with be patched out anyway) if thats the trade off for such quality gaming.

-Sergorn

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I'm with you all the way.

tolknaz said:

I'm just playing DS3 and honestly i can't understand all the hate this game gets. I'd say it's a solid title and does some things better than any Dungeon Siege game before. For the first time the story and especially the setting actually feels a notch above pukeworthy generic fantasy. They completely dropped the ball with the corridor like levels though. But when Mass Effects can get away with shit like that i don't understand why it's such a big crime here.

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You honestly think DS3 is better then mass effect? god this place rocks.

Drithius said:

Above all, what I adore about Obsidian is that they rarely settle and experiment more than most studios.

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I certainly respect most of Obsidian's efforts, but how have they experimented more than other companies and "rarely settled" when they have only done sequels to other studio's projects with the exception of Alpha Protocol? I'm not sure I would call that experimentation.

tolknaz said:

…They completely dropped the ball with the corridor like levels though. But when Mass Effects can get away with shit like that i don't understand why it's such a big crime here.

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I think it's the other way around, Obsidian gets away with doing things that other companies get ripped on for. The 3rd person shooter/action gameplay and dialogue wheel in Mass Effect were denounced as a sellout to the RPG genre, but Alpha Protocol gets a free pass. Dragon Age 2 justifiably gets ripped on for being a dumbed-down, half-baked cookie-cutter effort, but Dungeon Siege 3 gets excused of very similar faults. Fallout 3 caused an uproar for supposedly being too big of a departure from Fallout 1+2, but New Vegas is hailed as the "real" Fallout 3, despite essentially being an expansion, albeit a huge one that was certainly well made.

So I guess I just have to come out with it and ask: What is with all the huge amounts of praise for Obsidian and the belief that they are some sort of saviors for the genre? Is it just because they are an underdog who hasn't achieved the mega-success level of other companies, and this gives them a more likable perception? Is it their connection to the "good old days" of Black Isle, even though that was pre-Obsidian? I like the company's games myself, but they have been following the same trends that other companies have been reviled for among the RPG community, and they haven't exactly experimented with creativity and innovation either, with the exception of AP and Mask of the Betrayer. Kotor 1 is unfairly considered by some to be the beginning of the decline for Bioware, but why isn't Obsidian's Kotor 2 seen in the same light? Both games are great in my opinion, so why is one viewed differently than the other?

I truly like Obsidian as a company and hope they are able to keep making games for a very, very long time, but can people see the connection and similarities between them and other companies that are despised? Obsidian has been following a similar path set by Bioware and Bethesda, and I fail to see why Obsidian gets hailed as a vanguard of "true RPGs" when they have been working very closely with companies that are deemed as traitors to the genre. I hope they don't continue to follow in the footsteps of Bioware, but recent history (DA2/DS3) would suggest they might.

And finally, I am glad that Tim Cain is joining forces with Obsidian, regardless of the role or how much power he has in the decision-making process. I imagine that he will be heard if he chooses to speak up about any ideas he might have, and Obsidian's writing mixed with a small piece of Troika's wonderful creative spirit can only lead to good things. A solid RPG developer with untapped potential just got better, which is awesome news for fans of the genre.

Nerevarine said:

Dragon Age 2 justifiably gets ripped on for being a dumbed-down, half-baked cookie-cutter effort, but Dungeon Siege 3 gets excused of very similar faults. Fallout 3 caused an uproar for supposedly being too big of a departure from Fallout 1+2, but New Vegas is hailed as the "real" Fallout 3, despite essentially being an expansion, albeit a huge one that was certainly well made.

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I don't even see how you could compare Dragon Age 2 with Dungeon Siege 3. While you can reasonnably consider DA2 some kind of dumbing down on account that it simplified a lot of things, what Dungeon Siege 3 did basically amounted into turning a brainless linear hack'n slash RPG into another form of brainless linear hack'n slash RPG.

Hell I'd argue if anything DS3 has "dumbed up" (yeah I know it's an expression that doesn't make sense but you get my meaning) the series, especially in term of writing and character. I would argue it was also more fun in term of gameplay, DS basically amounted in your party just killing everything with you barely doing anything at all, DSIII is much more active and can actually get (gasp) challening at times.

DS3 got ripped deserverdly so because the PC UI just... wasn't that good to begin with, but that doesn't mean the rest is crap though.

Hell seriously I never so so many people giving some love to DS1&2 (if anything all I'd see were people saying how they were crap and how the Ultima remakes were the only things worthwile about DS1), before DS3 came along and dared change a formula that not many people seemed to care about in the first.

Regarding New Vegas I actually agree - I loved Fallout 3 and NV equally much personally and I feel NV mostly got a free pass because it had members from Black Isle back working on Fallout.

So I guess I just have to come out with it and ask: What is with all the huge amounts of praise for Obsidian and the belief that they are some sort of saviors for the genre?

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I can't speak for others, but what set Obsidian aparts from other developpers is writing as far as I'm concerned. I feel as far as RPGs developpers they are the best in term of writing (which as far as I'm concerned is the most important aspect in a RPG) and in term of choice&consequences.

That's not to say other developpers all suck in that domain, but I feel Obsidian are a good notch above all the others in that domain even if their games doesn't have quite the same polish (or should I say budget?) as say, a Bioware game.

And it all goes back to their Black Isle roots, because likewise back then Black Isle were the best in term of writing and c&c.

-Sergorn

rune_74 said:

You honestly think DS3 is better then mass effect? god this place rocks.

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For what it's worth, DS 3 being as bad as it is, it's still a better game than ME2. But comparing dung of different creatures is generally a waste of time.

Personally I felt it deviated too much from the originals and felt very consolized. Weak skill tree, 4 characters as opposed to classes, akward multiplayer and lifeless setting (Per usual Dungeon siege fashion).

I'd even say it was a waste of money, but then again. It wasn't.

tolknaz said:

I'm just playing DS3 and honestly i can't understand all the hate this game gets. I'd say it's a solid title and does some things better than any Dungeon Siege game before. For the first time the story and especially the setting actually feels a notch above pukeworthy generic fantasy. They completely dropped the ball with the corridor like levels though. But when Mass Effects can get away with shit like that i don't understand why it's such a big crime here.

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DS3 wasn't worthy of hate, in my opinion.

I think the rather strong response from so many has to do with the fact that it was, first, an Obsidian game and, second, completely different from the past Dungeon Siege games.

Not only did we get a CLEAR console "casual" game from our beloved Obsidian (I'm not really a big fan, personally - but I respect their work beyond the technical state) - we also got a game that all but ignored the legacy of the series.

In and of itself, I think DS3 is a decent/average little action RPG romp in the style of Dark Alliance. Sadly, it also suffers the exact same issue - which is the lack of the long-term perspective that the genre is known for. Nothing is less satisfying than having to invest in a character that you know will be gone in such a short time. The hack and slash genre has traditionally been about building a character that you could keep on playing almost indefinitely. That's part of what makes the process of building it so damn fun.

rune_74 said:

You honestly think DS3 is better then mass effect? god this place rocks.

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Don't put words in my mouth. All i'm saying is that extreme linearity, that was heavily criticized in the reviews is not so exlclusive here.

crpgnut said:

The following is a gay rant, that will offend some, so I placed it in spoiler tags. Tim Cain is gay, which sickens me…

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Wow, thats like uh .... not what i expected from you.
In a bad mood ?

Nerevarine said:

So I guess I just have to come out with it and ask: What is with all the huge amounts of praise for Obsidian and the belief that they are some sort of saviors for the genre?

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I think that's a bit of a generalised exaggeration to be honest, though you explore the question very well further on in your post. You'll find extreme reactions (praising or criticising, positive or negative) about almost any of the major AAA cRPG developers, whether they be Bioware or Bethesda etc.
I don't think exuberant fandom per se is specific only to Obsidian. Having said that, I don't think anyone is claiming in this thread that they're the messiah or second coming either.

Nerevarine said:

Is it their connection to the "good old days" of Black Isle, even though that was pre-Obsidian?

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I certainly think this is a big part of the rapport and respect that some rpg fans feel for Obsidian, yes. The reality is that that company has quite a few very talented individuals working there who are partially responsible in some way for some of the most cherished and celebrated western computer role-playing games in history. Perhaps it's human nature to remember the things we enjoy most and look toward the possibility of another such creation? The positive energy expressed by members in this thread towards Tim Cain for example exudes that respect for the past and hope for the future.

Nerevarine said:

I think it's the other way around, Obsidian gets away with doing things that other companies get ripped on for.

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I think that's an exaggerated assumption really. It's not hard to find some pretty strongly worded criticism of Obsidian games if you look online. In fact, on another smaller forum that I'm a member of (Ironworks) there are some very outspoken and condemning views regarding bugs experienced in Obsidian games to the point that their games are denigrated based upon that fact alone, regardless of gameplay. It depends where you look, really and the nature of the gamer for how forgiving you are.

If we're talking only specifically about Obsidian's treatment at the 'Watch, again, I don't think you can really say that we give them a 'pass'. There seems to be a variety of critical and balanced minded viewpoints from what I've experienced in my short time here. Sure, they have some strong support too - but going back to what I said about history - I think this is certainly justified.

Nerevarine said:

Kotor 1 is unfairly considered by some to be the beginning of the decline for Bioware, but why isn't Obsidian's Kotor 2 seen in the same light? Both games are great in my opinion, so why is one viewed differently than the other?

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Naturally this depends on your perspective. There are a wide range of viewpoints on the Kotors, so I'm not really sure about the validity of this question.
I don't think there's a predominant "hivemind" evaluation of these two games at all. Whilst some people may prefer BioWare's consistent reliability in staying reasonably true to the spirit of the Star Wars mythos and crafting an arguably solid game, others may prefer Obisidian's unique take on the philosophy of the force, the fun companion influence system and the overall less typical writing of Kotor 2. Having said that, Kotor 2 gets heavily criticised for its ending, bugs and the amount of loose ends in the plot that remained upon release. So I don't really think there's an askewed view to be honest.

Nerevarine said:

And finally, I am glad that Tim Cain is joining forces with Obsidian, regardless of the role or how much power he has in the decision-making process. I imagine that he will be heard if he chooses to speak up about any ideas he might have, and Obsidian's writing mixed with a small piece of Troika's wonderful creative spirit can only lead to good things. A solid RPG developer with untapped potential just got better, which is awesome news for fans of the genre.

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Couldn't agree more, well articulated.

Sergorn said:

Yeah but just because Feargus expresses some wishes doesn't mean it's gonna happen

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Sure, that's obvious though really. Look at my handle - you don't have to tell me to be realistic. When it's all said and done, I don't expect any miracles. Far from it. I was just trying to go with the flow and add some positivity to the thread by assisting in adding to the good vibes as started by Drithius and Skaven.

There are definitely questions to be answered on the nature of Obsidian's upcoming projects and it'll fascinating to see how it all plays out.
Sorry for the long post…guess I felt talkative and liked thinking about the potentials in this thread.