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February 14th, 2020, 19:40
Noooo!!! I have a big enough problem just choosing character builds, now I have to choose combat system as well?

I *think* I prefer turn based but I'm playing PF:KM right now and it's all kinds of awesome in RTwP. And in earlier games that included both I actually chose the RT option… (Arcanum and Fallout Tactics comes to mind).

Too many choices.
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February 14th, 2020, 20:51
This is a great decision as far as giving the game a huge boost in appeal to me.

From what I understand, the system the game is based on was turn based to begin with so I thought it was a bit strange that they went RTWP in the first game. Especially since turn based has experienced a new wave of popularity in rpgs lately and is in a sort of renaissance.

Personally, I think turn based is best for rpg combat and the most fun and just makes sense because D&D was always turn based as originally designed, and is usually the inspiration behind most rpg systems. Anyway, very good move by these developers!
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February 14th, 2020, 21:04
Originally Posted by Hastar View Post
I could see why the RTwP fans could get upset. It would be like saying Civilization is going Real Time.
I would love it as I play RTS games, but yeah most the fanbase would go ballistic.

Anyway while I'm being honest I prefer action based RPGs nowadays. I'm sharing this opinion as I played the Original Sin games, and felt the combat quickly got boring.

Though I don't mind playing Arcanum and the old Fallout games. Also their is already a huge glut of turn-based games on the Market for everyone to enjoy already.

In closing it's optional so I cant get to disappointed.
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February 14th, 2020, 21:58
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
Noooo!!! I have a big enough problem just choosing character builds, now I have to choose combat system as well?

I *think* I prefer turn based but I'm playing PF:KM right now and it's all kinds of awesome in RTwP. And in earlier games that included both I actually chose the RT option… (Arcanum and Fallout Tactics comes to mind).

Too many choices.
You can freely switch between real time and turn based though and see which you like better. I'll probably start out in turn based but if it annoys me too much I can always switch. And I'm sure I'll be switching no matter what for all those pointless filler combats.
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February 14th, 2020, 22:14
Originally Posted by fadedc View Post
You can freely switch between real time and turn based though and see which you like better. I'll probably start out in turn based but if it annoys me too much I can always switch. And I'm sure I'll be switching no matter what for all those pointless filler combats.
Yeah, it's actually great. I'm guessing I'll be using RTwP for the easy encounters and turn based for the harder ones as well.

I kept postponing PF:KM because of reasons I don't need to burden you guys with, but now that I'm finally playing it. Damn. I'm in agreement with PB, best game I've played since…ever?
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February 14th, 2020, 22:22
Yes, definitely the best isometric RPG since BG. People come out of the woodwork, however, when you say it's the best RPG since BG, period
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February 14th, 2020, 22:30
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
Yes, definitely the best isometric RPG since BG. People come out of the woodwork, however, when you say it's the best RPG since BG, period
I'll even be so blasphemous as to say it's better than BG. Perhaps not in writing or story, but the character building and the combat is much more interesting, and the exploration! When I've replayed BG in latter years I've found leveling pretty boring. NWN2 is a much better comparison but that one was instead way to linear.

Calling it the best RPG ever…yeah, I could get behind that. But that's because it's my favourite type if RPG, it's perfectly understandable if someone else wants to claim for example TW3 or Wizardy 8 deserves that title. Different tastes.
Last edited by TomRon; February 15th, 2020 at 08:25.
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February 15th, 2020, 08:41
I found it better than BG as well - but it's a difficult (and somewhat unfair) comparison due to huge span of time between their releases.
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February 15th, 2020, 14:29
Since this announcement, this vid product has climbed fast in the expected to be streamed vid product.

Streamers will have to demonstrate the difference in play between the two modes. This is going to be a kind of burden for all those picking up the RTwP mode as they will play it as the UgoIgo difference.

Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
It depends on how solidly a round/turn mechanic is adhered to by the game engine BEFORE turnbased playmodes are brought up in conversation. Kingmaker was a case of developers following PnP rules all the way through (for the most part). The turn-based mod was a natural extension of this and feels natural because of just how well the game designers did their job in the planning stages.
No. Different expectations come with RTwP, one is the relationship between time and space, that is movement.

It ports well because at its core, this vid product has poor RTwP, it is stationary as a UgoIgo combat based product is. Fights are not won through coordinated movement, they are won by appropriate use of spells, skills or whatever, chosen out a huge library.

Players do not play it RTwP, they play it as a UgoIgo thing. That is how it converts well.

Now devs have it right: no audience for RTwP products, so no one cares about its quality. People want UgoIgo, which they get but subordinated to a supposed RTwP design.
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February 15th, 2020, 15:08
Originally Posted by Drithius View Post
I found it better than BG as well - but it's a difficult (and somewhat unfair) comparison due to huge span of time between their releases.
I don't think it is. I played BG 1 and 2 when they where released and loved them to death. Since then NO other game has made me feel the same way. I had my hopes sky high for DA;O but that was a total crash and burn (loot and combat felt more like MMO's than classical RPG's, and that is NOT a good thing). PoE was good, even great with expansions, but the mechanics never felt as intuitive as DnD does to me. PoE2 was even better, great game but not magically so. Rose tinted glasses? I figured perhaps no game ever would beat BG in my eyes.

Then I started playing Pathfinder:Kingmaker. The rose tinted glasses broke. THAT's how much I enjoy it. And since I waited it's also completely bug free so far.
Last edited by TomRon; February 15th, 2020 at 20:43.
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February 15th, 2020, 18:49
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
I don't think it is. I played BG 1 and 2 when they where released and loved them to death. Since then NO other game has made me feel the same way. I had my hopes sky high for DA;O but that was a total crash and burn (loot and combat felt more like MMO's than classical RPG's, and that is NOT a good thing). PoE was good, even great with expansions, but the mechanics never felt as intuitive as DnD does to me. PoE2 was even better, great game but not magically so. Perhaps the rose tinted glasses? I figured perhaps no game ever would beat BG in my eyes.

Then I started playing Pathfinder:Kingmaker. THAT's how much I enjoy it. And since I waited it's also completely bug free so far.
Thats actually very close to my feelings. Pathfinder is THE game I was waiting for since BG2.
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February 15th, 2020, 20:20
I’ve got to stop reading pathfinder threads. I’m trying to finish a couple games before starting it and all these positive comments are making it hard.
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February 15th, 2020, 20:34
Originally Posted by sakichop View Post
I’ve got to stop reading pathfinder threads. I’m trying to finish a couple games before starting it and all these positive comments are making it hard.
Well I'm certainly glad I waited since I don't have to put up with any of myriad of issues that plagued the game at launch. The game's not going anywhere. And once you start you probably don't want to play anything else, so better to finish those other games first.
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February 15th, 2020, 23:48
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
Yeah, it's actually great. I'm guessing I'll be using RTwP for the easy encounters and turn based for the harder ones as well.
Yep, same here. I hope we can freely toggle between them in-game without digging through the options menu.
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February 16th, 2020, 03:38
Originally Posted by TomRon View Post
Well I'm certainly glad I waited since I don't have to put up with any of myriad of issues that plagued the game at launch. The game's not going anywhere. And once you start you probably don't want to play anything else, so better to finish those other games first.
I played it on launch but I decided to postpone it until it gets sufficiently patched, too. I kind of got burned out from Witcher 3 after 50 hours (not a complaint about the game, more about the length; 30 hours seems perfect for me nowadays), but once I finish it I'll probably go for Kingmaker.
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February 16th, 2020, 06:14
I remember playing Might and Magic in real time for all of the fodder battles but would drop into turn-based for things like Dragons and Titans, etc. While I vastly prefer real-time, it makes sense for party-based games to go with RTwP or turn-based. While I may never play Pathfinder, I think it's a good decision to offer choices and great of them to offer credit where it is due.
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February 16th, 2020, 20:29
Originally Posted by crpgnut View Post
I remember playing Might and Magic in real time for all of the fodder battles but would drop into turn-based for things like Dragons and Titans, etc. While I vastly prefer real-time, it makes sense for party-based games to go with RTwP or turn-based. While I may never play Pathfinder, I think it's a good decision to offer choices and great of them to offer credit where it is due.
I don't think I ever played MM turn based, but not completely sure.
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February 17th, 2020, 01:18
Originally Posted by Hastar View Post
I guess people don't understand the definition of could. And when you say, why would we care, I guess you speak for all RTwP players. I was just throwing a hypotheses out there.

I wouldn't want the developers of Battle Brothers wasting one second on a RTwP mode.
Well, I guess it could stay an indie game… You don't get it sales are Good for all
Turn-based players and RTwp. Some of us play both systems.
You kinda have to… As good RPGs are so few… But I do prefer the better one, you know, RTwp.
Anyway, Imagen a die-hard CRGp studio making a game with rockstars GTA budget, you could do RTwp and Turn-based and have money left to throw around.
The only ones that got close were CD Projekt Red and they moved on to shooters… Why? They needed more sales. Sadly classic CRPGS fans are so few and still split between turn vs RT dilemma and hard to please. Just go look at Baldur's Gate 3 forum, it's madness. Don't get me wrong, we need indie devs they make good games but they are so few… More sales equals more games. And more game makes for a greater chance of a masterpiece. Higher chance of new genre standards and so on.
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February 17th, 2020, 01:31
Originally Posted by Terry View Post
Yaay I will actually be able to target groups with AoE spells properly now. Lookout I gots a fire ball with your name on it.
IF stopping time with a key at any point in combat for an unlimited amount of time didn't help you with that endeavor. One could assume that you won't do any better in turn-based mode. Just saying…
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February 17th, 2020, 13:28
Originally Posted by Dolby View Post
IF stopping time with a key at any point in combat for an unlimited amount of time didn't help you with that endeavor. One could assume that you won't do any better in turn-based mode. Just saying…
It's really not the same thing. Usually these RTwP games are played in rounds that are hidden by the real-time movement. Baldur's Gate had 6s rounds if I remember correctly. Pillars of Eternity also had those, but a bit more complicated. Trying to factor in the time of the round, how much time it takes to cast the spell and the enemy movement can be overwhelming and you'll often miss and damage your own party members. With turn-based combat, the enemies don't move on your turn and the time to cast the spell doesn't matter. There are some spells in some games that take two turns to cast, (first turn to prepare, second to cast) but it doesn't matter that much since you can target on the second turn and it's easier to predict the movement of the enemies.
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