The "gamer outrage culture".

D

Darth Tagnan

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So, there's an actual name for this thing. I didn't realise.

It's something I've only recently picked up on. I don't think I noticed it until maybe a couple of years ago.

However, it's becoming ever more apparent every single day.

I have a few theories about what's causing it, though I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Personally, I fear the primary cause is about how Youtube works in terms of generating profit.

It seems YT has become one of the first roads for geeky insecure people wanting to make money by spouting ignorance.

Now, easy money was always a desired thing - and I certainly would like to make money with little effort as well.

However, the sad part is that "negative reinforcement" tends to be an extremely popular thing to perpetuate.

Meaning, if there's an audience out there who wants to hear people talk shit about whatever they're outraged about - then there's a lot of potential profit for the Youtubers who don't actually care about being fair or truthful.

Anyway…. I just think it's reached the stage where it's actually making a difference for certain games and movies.

What's your take on it?
 
I'm all for it as long as it brings benefits like shining a huge spotlight on industry practices like lootboxes and other abuses. Other than that, yeah, it can get a bit exaggerated when every issues is given so much attention. I just hope this doesn't lead to real issues being given less attention. Or us being desensitized when a real issue pops up.

Another thing I don't like is when game devs let public opinion affect their creative direction. But that's also a sign of a weak game dev, that has no idea idea what he wants to create and just polls their audience for ideas.
 
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danutz_plusplus said:
I'm all for it as long as it brings benefits like shining a huge spotlight on industry practices like lootboxes and other abuses. Other than that, yeah, it can get a bit exaggerated when every issues is given so much attention. I just hope this doesn't lead to real issues being given less attention. Or us being desensitized when a real issue pops up.
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But why do we need a spotlight on that? Are we that dumb?

Can't we just not support games that implement lootboxes? Do we really need some youtuber spouting shit before we react?

I certainly don't :)

Another thing I don't like is when game devs let public opinion affect their creative direction. But that's also a sign of a fake game dev, that has no idea idea what he wants to create and just polls their audience for ideas.
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Well, I think that's a little harsh.

That said, I agree. I actually prefer games based on a single vision by a single person. In my experience, they almost always end up being the best ones - at least if the person in question has enough talent :)

But there's no shame in asking for input and taking a lesson or two from the larger audience. Just as long as you don't compromise the core vision.
 
Darth Tagnan said:
But why do we need a spotlight on that? Are we that dumb?

Can't we just not support games that implement lootboxes? Do we really need some youtuber spouting shit before we react?

I certainly don't :)
.
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Oh, I don't think the spotlight is for us. The spotlight is useful when you want the issue to get big enough that other industries notice. The most recent example of this is the EA and Battlefront 2 loot-box situation. Had the whole gaming community not made such a big stink about it, it wouldn't have reached the size it did, which ended up prompting the involvement of governments. And I think a part of that big stink was the constant barrage of videos made by the community around the issue.

But there's no shame in asking for input and taking a lesson or two from the larger audience. Just as long as you don't compromise the core vision.
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Yeah, I agree 100%. Come to think of it I also don't like devs that take the "know-it-all" attitude, when it's obvious game design is not such a precise science as they sometimes like to believe. So, yeah, I guess I was a bit harsh.
 
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I don’t really know to much about it. I only go to YouTube to watch videos to learn how to do stuff. I installed several new 20 amp breakers and wired my entire basement just by watching YouTube videos, saved me thousands. So it invaluable for that.

Sorry you’re not really talking about that i know. Ive watched a couple of the videos couch likes to post and they were terrible, one sided, definitely there to just get hits and whip like minded people in to a frenzy.

So useless to me. Unfortunately talking to my son many of his freinds follow theses YouTube guys almost religiously so they’ll probably have a greater impact on the future than I’d care to admit.
 
danutz_plusplus said:
Oh, I don't think the spotlight is for us. The spotlight is useful when you want the issue to get big enough that other industries notice. The most recent example of this is the EA and Battlefront 2 loot-box situation. Had the whole gaming community not made such a big stink about it, it wouldn't have reached the size it did, which ended up prompting the involvement of governments. And I think a part of that big stink was the constant barrage of videos made by the community around the issue.
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Yes, but for every BF2 situation - you have dozens of situations that aren't really based in the actual games - but in the perception of the people publishing the game - or making the game.

I mean, I fully understand that not everyone loved Mass Effect Andromeda. I know it had issues, there's no denying that.

But the amount of hate it received was so out of proportion with reality that I struggle to find the words.

Yes, I personally loved it - but I can see the issues. That doesn't mean you have to crucify Bioware forever because of it.

Same goes for Fallout 4, Fallout 76 - and, now, everything that Bethsoft touches.

Also, for EA games - like Anthem. They're being hated upon for absolutely no rational reasons.

Talk about issues, that's cool. Don't be lenient - that's cool.

But absurd exaggeration and misinformation just to generate as many clicks as you can, that's not too cool.

It's going to be the same with Blizzard now. I mean, Blizzard isn't what they used to be - but that doesn't mean their next game is necessarily worthy of blatant hatred.

Yeah, I agree 100%. Come to think of it I also don't like devs that take the "know-it-all" attitude, when it's obvious game design is not such a precise science as they sometimes like to believe. So, yeah, I guess I was a bit harsh.
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Well, some devs really DO "know-it-all" if you compare them to the average gamer.

But, it's true. I think keeping an open mind and being receptive to new ideas is always healthy.
 
sakichop said:
I don’t really know to much about it. I only go to YouTube to watch videos to learn how to do stuff. I installed several new 20 amp breakers and wired my entire basement just by watching YouTube videos, saved me thousands. So it invaluable for that.
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Oh, there's a lot of great and useful stuff out there. I've learned a lot of things about game development and marketing, for instance.

Sorry you’re not really talking about that i know. Ive watched a couple of the videos couch likes to post and they were terrible, one sided, definitely there to just get hits and whip like minded people in to a frenzy.
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Exactly.

So useless to me. Unfortunately talking to my son many of his freinds follow theses YouTube guys almost religiously so they’ll probably have a greater impact on the future than I’d care to admit.
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I don't think it's THAT big a deal yet, but I do worry that some games that really deserve a better reception are getting murdered for no good reason.

Naturally, the same is true in reverse. Some companies are automatically exempt from criticism because of ridiculously predisposed goodwill.

I'd name CDPR and Obsidian here.

But that doesn't really bother me.

I don't have a problem with companies being more successful than they deserve. I do have a problem with companies being less successful than they deserve, however.
 
Wow, I sure haven't missed it. It isn't too terrible here on The Watch but in Steam forums… sheesh, it's ridiculous and more than a little pathetic. If a game comes out on console a week before PC, it's because the publishers hate PC gamers. Put a game on sale before the approved time? That's a "slap in the face" to the early adopters. Got a bug in your game? You hate your customers. Heaven help you if you leave out a translation - especially one you did in one of your previous games - it's iron-clad proof that you hate people that speak that language.

It's completely insane. Anything that goes wrong is taken personally. Anyone that dares give any kind of alternate explanation or that the people saying this are making huge, ridiculous assumptions is a "shill" that just wants this kind of "abuse" to continue.

I've heard a few theories on why it's gotten so much worse over the past 10 years. I'm not feeling it so I've really got no way to tell which combination of them might be true. But yeah, it is DEFINITELY affecting business. Check the review bombing of the Metro Exodus games going on right now, for instance.

It's not limited to gaming, either, but I don't want to get this topic shoved over THERE. ;)
 
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Zloth said:
Wow, I sure haven't missed it. It isn't too terrible here on The Watch but in Steam forums… sheesh, it's ridiculous and more than a little pathetic. If a game comes out on console a week before PC, it's because the publishers hate PC gamers. Put a game on sale before the approved time? That's a "slap in the face" to the early adopters. Got a bug in your game? You hate your customers. Heaven help you if you leave out a translation - especially one you did in one of your previous games - it's iron-clad proof that you hate people that speak that language.

It's completely insane. Anything that goes wrong is taken personally. Anyone that dares give any kind of alternate explanation or that the people saying this are making huge, ridiculous assumptions is a "shill" that just wants this kind of "abuse" to continue.

I've heard a few theories on why it's gotten so much worse over the past 10 years. I'm not feeling it so I've really got no way to tell which combination of them might be true. But yeah, it is DEFINITELY affecting business. Check the review bombing of the Metro Exodus games going on right now, for instance.

It's not limited to gaming, either, but I don't want to get this topic shoved over THERE. ;)
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Yeah, it seems we're of the same mind here.

It's absolutely crazy these days.

I used to call it entitled gamers - but it's taken on a whole new level.

It's as if people think they have a right to developers working hard exclusively for THEIR wants and preferences.

It's staggeringly ignorant, arrogant and selfish.
 
I'm guessing I'm not missing out on anything by not knowing most of the stuff mentioned here. When I saw the subject, I thought this was going to be another march against EA or Bioware!! I really only use you tube to watch old concerts or to listen to audio books, certainly not for games. Those I either read about or query friends on, and, of course, visit the awesome Watch.
 
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Culture? There's nothing cultured about it. I call it "entitlement issues".

People are review bombing Ace Combat 7 at the moment because they can't use their HOTAS and it doesn't support ultra-wide resolutions. But it's probably the most well polished and well optimised game I've seen. It's like weaponised reviews. They're not being objective. What use is their rage to someone using a common control device like KB+M or controller?

Imagine I went and rage posted about lack of trackball support.

"What year is this?! 2019 and no trackball support? What a lazy, terrible port! Trackballs have been out for over 30 years there's really no excuse. I would never recommend this game. Refunded! 0.2 hours played."

Plus, if you're not a fucking noob you can get your joystick working with some kind of input mapper program. You can hack in your own ultra-widescreen support or download one someone else made. Solutions to both these problems were offered on Steam and Reddit forums day 1 but the threads get so little interest they fall off page 1 in minutes. It's like they just want to rage.

Same with Monster Hunter. That was down at 49% for a while when it deserves a 90s score more than any other game of 2018. There were connection issues in the first week, but people still having them are just noobs who don't know how to forward their Steam ports. They should just play on console. They think they're "PC Master Race" because they have a PC but they're really just retarded console peasants because PC users fix their own problems. That's what makes PC good! I never have any issues to rage about because I can always get my games running. I can troubleshoot almost any issue - no rage required.

Imagine reviewing a game you couldn't get working and therefore haven't played! Spoiled brats, dude. Bunch of dumb kids with entitlement issues.
 
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I have to say, it's a little upsetting to me.

I believe the culprit is largely part of Youtube's algorithm, as you've already highlighted. And it makes sense too - Youtube wants to prioritize pushing videos that get views. Initially, however, Youtube didn't function in this manner. It was common to get recommended videos that were similar in nature (or even title) in the sidebar from small name Youtubers. And that was wonderful.

Of course, Youtube's very different from what it was 10 years ago.

However, a large part of it is the audience which perpetuates that kind of "outrage", and the Youtubers who get the affirmation they need to keep making those kind of videos. They have a vested interest in earning money thanks to their viewers, and videos undoubtedly generate more views if it's seen in a negative light. It's a massive benefit for Youtube and the content creators.

The Youtubers feed off of this, and they have no real reason to stop because they're looking out for their own personal security from a monetary perspective. It's entirely understandable. Subsequently, it's a shame that negative reinforcement is the bigger benefactor than positive reinforcement.

You also make a point about Youtubers not wanting to be fair and truthful. In an age where personal contentment takes precedence over an idea or pursuit of truth, it's no wonder that "outrage culture" is in its prime. Which, again, is a shame, because it's incredibly hard to find Youtubers who set aside personal growth in favor of raw, honest, truthful ideals when Youtube itself actively works against them.

Lately, I'm finding myself unsubscribing to a lot of channels that I've followed for years. Some of them have started to lean in the direction of news coverage or impressions, both of which are often only negatively received. I don't have it in me to be constantly upset, enrage on a forum, or negatively reinforce myself. Hive mind confirmation bias is not how I like to form my own take on something, whether it's games, movies, books, and so on.
 
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Oh look a video but it talks about why YouTube is click-bait.


It's not going to change sorry guys.

Gamer's now have the freedom to express their opinions freely while being somewhat anonymous through gamer tags, and can easily get away with how we/they act.

So it's safe to say gaming has always been toxic, but it’s just that it’s more universally vocalized now then with how it was back in the old days of magazines.

Nowadays I just refuse to argue my point. My simple reply of “It’s a matter of preference” rarely satisfies anyone, and causes more tension between me and them.

Today I still enjoy some games but I’ve been moving away from most gaming community's for other select ones. Heck I left this site for a whole year before.

TLDR: The internet enabled outrage since it was launched nothing new here.
 
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Ragnaris said:
I have to say, it's a little upsetting to me.

I believe the culprit is largely part of Youtube's algorithm, as you've already highlighted. And it makes sense too - Youtube wants to prioritize pushing videos that get views. Initially, however, Youtube didn't function in this manner. It was common to get recommended videos that were similar in nature (or even title) in the sidebar from small name Youtubers. And that was wonderful.

Of course, Youtube's very different from what it was 10 years ago.

However, a large part of it is the audience which perpetuates that kind of "outrage", and the Youtubers who get the affirmation they need to keep making those kind of videos. They have a vested interest in earning money thanks to their viewers, and videos undoubtedly generate more views if it's seen in a negative light. It's a massive benefit for Youtube and the content creators.

The Youtubers feed off of this, and they have no real reason to stop because they're looking out for their own personal security from a monetary perspective. It's entirely understandable. Subsequently, it's a shame that negative reinforcement is the bigger benefactor than positive reinforcement.

You also make a point about Youtubers not wanting to be fair and truthful. In an age where personal contentment takes precedence over an idea or pursuit of truth, it's no wonder that "outrage culture" is in its prime. Which, again, is a shame, because it's incredibly hard to find Youtubers who set aside personal growth in favor of raw, honest, truthful ideals when Youtube itself actively works against them.

Lately, I'm finding myself unsubscribing to a lot of channels that I've followed for years. Some of them have started to lean in the direction of news coverage or impressions, both of which are often only negatively received. I don't have it in me to be constantly upset, enrage on a forum, or negatively reinforce myself. Hive mind confirmation bias is not how I like to form my own take on something, whether it's games, movies, books, and so on.
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I agree with 100% of what you said :)
 
I don't know... I don't think it's an entitlement thing, honestly. If that were they case, it would just be "you must have a FoV setting or your game sucks." That's not worrying to me. It's all the "you don't have a FoV setting so you hate us" style responses. I don't think the point is really to get the game changed, I think it's to vent and scream - preferably with others joining in with them.

That kind of thinking leads to very, very bad things. We've already been seeing death threats on the rise.

So it's safe to say gaming has always been toxic...
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There's always been some hate, sure, but it's FAR worse now.
 
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Zloth said:
I don't know… I don't think it's an entitlement thing, honestly. If that were they case, it would just be "you must have a FoV setting or your game sucks." That's not worrying to me. It's all the "you don't have a FoV setting so you hate us" style responses. I don't think the point is really to get the game changed, I think it's to vent and scream - preferably with others joining in with them.

That kind of thinking leads to very, very bad things. We've already been seeing death threats on the rise.

There's always been some hate, sure, but it's FAR worse now.
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Yeah. I'm not disagreeing with you.

I think the difference between "therefore your game sucks" and "therefore you hate us" is just exaggeration, hyperbole or even just plain old being silly.

You're right though; it is just about getting attention, narcissism, that sort of thing. But, of course, if you want to make yourself heard, get that attention, many might feel you have to yell until you're blue in the face.

However, review bombing has a sort of dark intent. They want to upset developers to an amount which is disproportionate to their actual disappointment. It's more like "therefore I hate you and want you to fail and suffer and cease to exist!" which is where the death threats come in. But the negative reviews also offend the people who write positive reviews and they fight amongst themselves. It's likely that the real source of their anger is unrelated to the games they're projecting upon so there's very little that can be done. I guess just let them cry themselves to sleep.

I'm sure if life was perfect and harmonious and everyone was happy, even when they were disappointed, they would see the positive side of things and return to the old saying "If you can't say anything nice don't say anything at all". Unfortunately, the wisdom of my grandparents doesn't get much representation within the agenda of the media today.
 
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You can shorten it to just "the outrage culture" and its just as fitting. Not sure if had to be gamer specific.
People are 'outraged' if their order is wrong, if a store doesn't stock everything they want, if the weather changes etc.
Pathetic.
 
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I think in simplest form, people love to bitch,

And now they have a platform and the world as their audience.
 
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