NWN2 - Worth playing in 2021?

Redglyph · August 11, 2021

Andrew23 said:
NWN1 was - at time of release - standing on wow effect provided by fully 3D environment and characters. Gameplay and story were dumbed-down, compared to previous BG games. I dont think NWN calls to be remade in modern graphics as nothing but graphics would really stand out.

BioWare didn't have much time left for the main campaign on the original NWN game, so it was pale in comparison. It's not bad, but the DLCs are much better and they're included with the game today. If there was a remake, they should definitely be part of the deal too.

The game itself has nothing to envy BG, graphics are better but it also run on D&D 3.0, has a better interface and a campaign design tool which did a lot to lengthen the game's life. So to me a remake would make sense, at least as much as any other game, although I'm still of the opinion that it's better to make a new game than a remake (or a remaster).

Sir_Brennus · August 11, 2021

NWN2 shared the bad OC with NWN1, but a bit less so. But the game and the engine really excelled in "Mask of the Betrayer", which is basically the best thing to sliced bread up to today. Some didn't like the spirit meter mechanics, but I can't understand that for the life of me.
The first quarter of "Storm of Zehir" was nice, but it fell apart for me after that, so that I never was able to finish it.
The visuals haven't aged well, though.

Andrew23 · August 11, 2021

Redglyph said:
BioWare didn't have much time left for the main campaign on the original NWN game, so it was pale in comparison. It's not bad, but the DLCs are much better and they're included with the game today. If there was a remake, they should definitely be part of the deal too.

The game itself has nothing to envy BG, graphics are better but it also run on D&D 3.0, has a better interface and a campaign design tool which did a lot to lengthen the game's life. So to me a remake would make sense, at least as much as any other game, although I'm still of the opinion that it's better to make a new game than a remake (or a remaster).

As far as I remember, in NWN player controlled directly main character, which could tag along one sidekick, operated by AI. That means it was not party-based cRPG and that significantly limited tactical possibilities as well as encounter design itself.

I am aware of DLCs, I played them all upon release as I was Bioware fanboy and hungry for D&D RPGs after BG (which I unfortunately never got from Bioware after that). But although DLCs were better, it was always limited by NWN design and always left me disappointed.

Couchpotato · August 11, 2021

Were lucky NWN had a SP campaign as that wasn't the intention of BioWare until Atari & WoTC stepped in and made them. The mod tools of both games are were they shine.

Some say the mods for NWN 2 are not as good and that's blasphemy. I shared links many times already to new mods, and some are still getting released nowadays.

Still the scene for both games is slowing down and that's a bummer. Hopefully Larian's BG III will have the tools, and the people who want to make campaign mods.

I doubt it though given the Original Sin mod scene was sparse at best with the tools.

Redglyph · August 11, 2021

Andrew23 said:
As far as I remember, in NWN player controlled directly main character, which could tag along one sidekick, operated by AI. That means it was not party-based cRPG and that significantly limited tactical possibilities as well as encounter design itself.

You're correct, I completely forgot about that! You can give a few directives but that's about it.

There was a mod to get back this control of the companions I think, but I've never tried it. It didn't bother me back then, it probably would now.

Couchpotato · August 11, 2021

Yeah there was a mod I believe that allowed you to control you companions in NWN.

Here you go - https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/module/companion-control-system-10

This is a simple module, which shows off custom companion control system. It will allow you to control henchmen, familairs ,animal companions and summons. It use player tools 1. How the the tool is giving to the pc is not ideal, but it give you a basic idea on how to add it your pc. This is a basic tranfer from my base module that has other options that I may add to this sample. Let me know of any bugs or questions. This work is based off Balkoth Minion Control system as a foundation. Click on yourself for group control and on individuals (portraits I found best) for single control and target differant objects in the module to see what they do.

Arkadia7 · August 11, 2021

Andrew23 said:
I dont think NWN calls to be remade in modern graphics as nothing but graphics would really stand out.

I had more in mind a "re-imagining" than a remake, to be honest. You are right in that the story and single-player campaign of NWN was not the best.

However, I would always like more fantasy isometric D&D games to be produced.
I can see a new NeverWinter Nights being made with little to nothing to do with the original game, in my vision. There could be full party control, turn-based combat, a classic D&D based fantasy rpg, with isometric top-down view and beautiful "bird's eye view" graphics. And an epic single-player campaign, in my version.

That is what I would really want.

Andrew23 · August 11, 2021

Redglyph said:
There was a mod to get back this control of the companions I think, but I've never tried it. It didn't bother me back then, it probably would now.

Might have been fine to have it at that time, but it wouldn't help with encounter design, which was developed around one main character + AI sidekick and summons. I know people loved NWN for different things, its just that this element of gameplay was important to me and I was never really able to get over it. I never replayed NWN and dont intend to.

But maybe I will try NWN2 with some quality of life mods. I remember tweaking the camera and UI to be playable for me was hell at that time, but there are guides available today, so might give it a try if Im able find time.

Andrew23 · August 11, 2021

Arkadia7 said:
I had more in mind a "re-imagining" than a remake, to be honest. You are right in that the story and single-player campaign of NWN was not the best.

However, I would always like more fantasy isometric D&D games to be produced.
I can see a new NeverWinter Nights being made with little to nothing to do with the original game, in my vision. There could be full party control, turn-based combat, a classic D&D based fantasy rpg, with isometric top-down view and beautiful "bird's eye view" graphics. And an epic single-player campaign, in my version.

That is what I would really want.

Thats exactly what I really wanted since I finished BG2. And while there were some good, isometric RPG games in meantime, Im still waiting to get that fully fleshed-out, SP, D&D, party-based, full-party-control, isometric game, with nearly AAA production values.

Honestly, today Im fine with reality I will never get it .... but Larian might get close to that, right?

Couchpotato · August 11, 2021

Arkadia7 said:
I had more in mind a "re-imagining" than a remake, to be honest. You are right in that the story and single-player campaign of NWN was not the best.

However, I would always like more fantasy isometric D&D games to be produced.
I can see a new NeverWinter Nights being made with little to nothing to do with the original game, in my vision. There could be full party control, turn-based combat, a classic D&D based fantasy rpg, with isometric top-down view and beautiful "bird's eye view" graphics. And an epic single-player campaign, in my version.

That is what I would really want.

Sounds good but I'd prefer RTwP. Anyway exhibit A: Baldur's Gate III. Still I doubt you will get a remaster or new NWN as Beamdog holds the current rights from WoTc.

Redglyph · August 11, 2021

Andrew23 said:
Thats exactly what I really wanted since I finished BG2. And while there were some good, isometric RPG games in meantime, Im still waiting to get that fully fleshed-out, SP, D&D, party-based, full-party-control, isometric game, with nearly AAA production values.

Honestly, today Im fine with reality I will never get it …. but Larian might get close to that, right?

Pathfinder: Kingmaker scratched that itch for me

It's not too far from the D&D 3.5, offers enough choices, and gives you full control of the companions. It may not be nearly AAA production value but it's very good.

Wrath of the Righteous should be even more convincing from all points of view, Kingmaker was not without a few rough edges, but then no game is perfect.

I'm not sure how well BG3 fits in all that. The 5th edition is quite different, and they tweaked it somewhat. Then Larian has its proper style which doesn't please everyone, even if the game promises to be very good, it's really a matter of personal taste. It does meet the criteria you listed, so that's a good start!

Ivanwah · August 11, 2021

Couchpotato said:
Yeah there was a mod I believe that allowed you to control you companions in NWN.

Here you go - https://neverwintervault.org/project/nwn1/module/companion-control-system-10

Will this work with EE? I really hate how dumb the pathfinding can get sometimes and I don't like how my companion stops attacking the enemy and focuses on the enemy I'm attacking resulting in attacks of opportunity. This looks like it will fix those problems.

Couchpotato · August 11, 2021

Ivanwah said:
Will this work with EE? I really hate how dumb the pathfinding can get sometimes and I don't like how my companion stops attacking the enemy and focuses on the enemy I'm attacking resulting in attacks of opportunity. This looks like it will fix those problems.

Technically it should unless they changed the coding. I haven't used the mod on the EE though. In my experience the old mods still work except for the videos due to a codec.

Ivanwah · August 11, 2021

Couchpotato said:
Technically it should unless they changed the coding. I haven't used the mod on the EE though. In my experience the old mods still work except for the videos due to a codec.

I'll try it tonight and we'll see.

JDR13 · August 11, 2021

Ivanwah said:
I'll try it tonight and we'll see.

I'd like to hear your impressions after you've tried it. Having control over only 1 character in NWN has always been one of its biggest turn-offs for me.

Andrew23 · August 11, 2021

Redglyph said:
Pathfinder: Kingmaker scratched that itch for me It's not too far from the D&D 3.5, offers enough choices, and gives you full control of the companions. It may not be nearly AAA production value but it's very good.

Wrath of the Righteous should be even more convincing from all points of view, Kingmaker was not without a few rough edges, but then no game is perfect.

Can sign that. Kingmaker was like miracle, especially because I really didnt expect them to succeed to such extent. And yes, till this day it got closest to what I wanted since BG2. I spent 400hrs with it, which is really a lot, for me at least. And I actually have probably higher expectations from Wrath of Righteous, then from BG3 (which leaves lots of room for BG3 to surprise me

)

Ivanwah · August 11, 2021

JDR13 said:
I'd like to hear your impressions after you've tried it. Having control over only 1 character in NWN has always been one of its biggest turn-offs for me.

This seems to be a demo module showcasing what it can do. And it can do exactly what I need it. I can command my companion to move to a location, handle trap/door/locked chest, attack an enemy, etc. It works with multiple companions as well and you can either give command to a single companion or to all of them. The commands are "smart", meaning they are different depending on what you clicked. Enemy will get attacked, trap disarmed, locked chest unlocked or bashed, but all of that is fine for me. Like I said, I need a simple "move to" command to combat bad pathfinding and an "attack this enemy" command and both are there.

Now the bad stuff: it is a bit clunky since you need to use an ability to issue commands. You can put it on a hot-bar for easier use. But the worst thing is that it is a demo module and I can't figure out how to incorporate it into my OC + both expansions playthrough. I don't know if it is even possible. The mod comes only with basic description and no readme of any kind so I'm lost there

The page says it is based on this, which is a script you can incorporate into your custom module. I don't know if that can be incorporated into the OC either. I'm sure I could figure it out with a bit more time, but I just don't want to bother with it now. I thought it is a simple "drag and drop" solution that goes into your override folder but it's not. If anyone figures it out, let me know.

JDR13 · August 11, 2021

Ivanwah said:
But the worst thing is that it is a demo module and I can't figure out how to incorporate it into my OC + both expansions playthrough. I don't know if it is even possible. The mod comes only with basic description and no readme of any kind so I'm lost there

Ah.. that's disappointing. Let me know if you find a way to get it to work with the OC+expansions. It sounds promising.

Thanks for the impressions.

daveyd · August 12, 2021

Not as many good mods for NWN2 as the first game, but still worth playing if only for the player created modules. A few of my favorites: Maimed God Saga, Conan Chronicles, Tales from the Lake of Sorrows, Planescape: Shaper of Dreams (Note: still waiting for the translation of the last 2 parts for this one).

Couchpotato · August 12, 2021

Plenty of good NWN 2 mods and I didn't list them all.

NWN2 - Worth playing in 2021?

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