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Default XCOM - Is now a Genre

October 19th, 2017, 23:25
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
I think the total war series has this element as well.

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True, I though about TW also, but since it focuses on larger scale battles in real time as opposed to individual soldiers in turn based I figured maybe they shouldn't quite be in the same category.

@ChienAboyeur , I agree, calling it a genre might be a stretch, but I won't be surprised if it will be in a decade (as is the case with for example Roguelikes).
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October 20th, 2017, 00:26
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
I remember this game : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incuba…Is_Running_Out

And then I was playing a demo of a game during the last RPC, I think …
Great game, great music, great fun
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October 20th, 2017, 04:01
I'm a big fan of JA2 mainly. It's probably the pinnacle of the genre. (Or would be if buildings featured multiple storeys.) I could never get the hang of X-COM's strategic layer, and never used a walkthrough, so I never advanced very far (though I did beat X-COM: Apocalypse).

JA2 is a bona fide RPG, which also made it better.
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October 20th, 2017, 06:07
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
XCom is a franchise. A genre would require quite a lot of other products doing the same yet without cloning their model.
Woah @Corwin, I'm really confused. Maybe someone did hack my account. I am agreeing with Chien and he is totally making sense.
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October 20th, 2017, 06:23
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
XCom is a franchise. A genre would require quite a lot of other products doing the same yet without cloning their model.
There are actually quite a lot of clones, if you include X-COM and not just XCOM. There are for instance two stickied threads on RPG Codex that list various X-COM clones. But there aren't as many as, say, clones of Rogue. So calling them a genre is problematic.
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October 20th, 2017, 11:26
Yes Xcom 1994 had a lot of clones through the years, but they didn't achieve much market success until Firaxis attempt.
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October 20th, 2017, 22:48
Originally Posted by posfan12 View Post
There are actually quite a lot of clones, if you include X-COM and not just XCOM. There are for instance two stickied threads on RPG Codex that list various X-COM clones. But there aren't as many as, say, clones of Rogue. So calling them a genre is problematic.
There's many games influenced by the new XCOM, and that quoted XCOM aspects in their com. But when doing the list, not that many for which it is acceptable to classify them as half clone.

But also it seems XCOM could have bring a bit more attention on Western Tactics RPG than it ever been.

I tried list some acceptable "clones" and I ended with a relatively short list and for sure many will argue on some:
Massive Chalice
Shock Tactics
Templar Battle Force
Invisible Inc
Mordheim : City of the Damned
Hard West
Steamworld Heist
Dead State
The Last Warlock
X-Mercs
Legions of Steel
Warhammer 40,000: Deathwatch: Tyranid Invasion
Steam Marine
WARMACHINE: Tactics
Space Hulk
Space Hulk Ascension
Warbanners
Fort Triumph (coming but demo available)
Phoenix Point (coming)

It's not a so short list for not that many years, but knowing most are picked in indie pool and some certainly don't qualify and some are probably much more related to X-Com than XCOM (that's why I didn't listed Xenonauts), it's a short list.

And there's those mobile only for now, a few example I picked in a careful made list:
Xenowar
Aliens versus Humans
World of Warriors: Quest
Alien Star Menace
Star Chindy

And then there's Western Tactics RPG, and I doubt it's hazard Western Tactics RPG rise after XCOM:
Super Dungeon Tactics
Blackguards 1&2
Banner Saga trilogy
Fallen: A2P Protocol
Demon's Rise 2: Lords of Chaos
Battle Brothers
Telepath Tactics
Chroma Squad
Age of Fear Trilogy
Skulls of Shogun
Flamberge (coming)
Low Magic Age (coming)

But firstly XCOM2 is certainly better than XCOM1 but seems not have hit the mark. Secondly it is missing AAA attempts, there's a few that are sort of A games or deluxe indie, but nothing AAA.
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October 21st, 2017, 09:38
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index…al-games.7389/
http://www.rpgcodex.net/forums/index…-thread.13409/

// X-COM CLONES
Invasion 2021: Last Line of Defense (????) [dead link]
OpenXcom (TBA) [faithful open source implementation, there exist mobile ports too]
Pocket UFO (2003) [very faithful conversion for the PPC, dead link]
Talon (2005) [open source]
Taskforce (????) [dead link]
UFO: Aftershock, UFO: Aftermath & UFO: Afterlight (2003, 2005, 2007) [RTwP]
UFO: Alien Invasion (TBA) [open source, has multiplayer, my favorite so far of all the clones]
UFO: Extraterrestrials & UFO2Extraterrestrials (2007, TBA) [so-so reviews]
UFO-2007: Unknown Project (????) [dead link]
UFO2000 (TBA) [in development, open source, very faithful multiplayer update]
UFOLoader [fan-made patch for X-COM]
XCOM: Enemy Unknown, XCOM 2 (2012, 2016) [recent remakes by Fireaxis]
Xenonauts (2014) [good reviews]
XenoSquad (????) [Adobe Flash, browser, free to play]
Xenowar (2011) [Android mobile]
Project Xenocide (DOA) [open source, discontinued]
UFO: The Two Sides (DOA) [freeware, multiplayer remake, in development]
X-Com: Project Colonisation (DOA) [dead link]
X-Commandos (DOA) [in development]
X-Force: Fight for Destiny (DOA) [in development]
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October 21st, 2017, 20:26
Originally Posted by Dasale View Post
Space Hulk
Space Hulk as a clone of XCOM… Who dares wins.
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October 24th, 2017, 23:02
Borderland is a Diablo clone, experts know that, not the newbies. At some point any genre is looking for freedom and changes… but ok I admit a fail is quite possible on this one, but I quoted I had no doubts some would argue on some, you just prove I know predict future, so this fail isn't a fail it's a win. Dasale - The bot : 1 - 0
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October 25th, 2017, 17:56
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
Isn't Tactical RPG the genre?
While X-Com is technically an RPG, in that you have a party whereby each member plays a different role, it's never been a part of the RPG genre of computer games, as in never marketed itself as such nor been referred to as such.

May I be so bold as to ask what it was that made you think it was an RPG? What was your source of reference which described it as such?
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October 25th, 2017, 18:23
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
While X-Com is technically an RPG, in that you have a party whereby each member plays a different role, it's never been a part of the RPG genre of computer games, as in never marketed itself as such nor been referred to as such.

May I be so bold as to ask what it was that made you think it was an RPG? What was your source of reference which described it as such?
Well if you think about it, it's not that different from the Disgaea games or Gladius. Other than your character being the 'captain' instead of a soldier in the battlefield. You have a 'party' of characters, they gain experience and abilities, they can use different equipment, you do combat in a tactical map where each character's abilities and skills determine the chance of success. Gameplay-wise they're very similar in fact, other than the story and settings obviously.
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October 25th, 2017, 18:27
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
Well if you think about it, it's not that different from the Disgaea games or Gladius. Other than your character being the 'captain' instead of a soldier in the battlefield. You have a 'party' of characters, they gain experience and abilities, they can use different equipment, you do combat in a tactical map where each character's abilities and skills determine the chance of success. Gameplay-wise they're very similar in fact, other than the story and settings obviously.
Yes, I know, it's a similar thing. So it was just something you assumed, it wasn't from reading about it being an RPG etc then, yes?
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October 25th, 2017, 18:37
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
Yes, I know, it's a similar thing. So it was just something you assumed, it wasn't from reading about it being an RPG etc then, yes?
Yes to me XCom is a tactical RPG, so when someone says XCOM is now a genre, might as well call everything a genre of its own.
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October 25th, 2017, 18:46
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
Yes to me XCom is a tactical RPG, so when someone says XCOM is now a genre, might as well call everything a genre of its own.
That's a bit of an overreaction, but I see where you're coming from. Genres develop naturally over time and the RPG genre has sprouted quite a few over the years, from roguelikes to diablo clones to "The Dark Souls of" and many etc.

Genres are a short-hand for a style of game you like, to draw you in for further investigation. So renown is an important factor in generating a genre as is the number of replicants you inspire.

Without genres it would be much harder to choose a game to play. It would be much harder to know which forum to join. It would be much harder for news posters to know what news to post about.
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October 25th, 2017, 20:06
Certainly when somebody describes a game as being X-Com like, it tells me a lot more about the game then it would if they just described it as being a tactical RPG.
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October 26th, 2017, 01:57
Originally Posted by fadedc View Post
Certainly when somebody describes a game as being X-Com like, it tells me a lot more about the game then it would if they just described it as being a tactical RPG.
Right but you can say the same thing about everything. X game is like Skyrim, does it make Skyrim a genre?
To me it goes like this:
Genre: RPG
Sub-genre: Tactical RPG
Plays like: X-Com.
Or I guess you could add another layer: Sub-sub-genre. Although I would argue that a sub-sub-genre would be action tactical RPG (I don't know if this exists, something like a mix of Deus Ex with Rainbow six or something).
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October 26th, 2017, 14:21
Or simply, just as turn based is wished to mean exclusively ugoigo, tactical RPG must mean exclusively XCOM like stuff.
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October 26th, 2017, 15:32
Originally Posted by wolfing View Post
Right but you can say the same thing about everything. X game is like Skyrim, does it make Skyrim a genre?
Well Skyrim might not be a genre, but open world RPG certainly is. I'm not sure that Skyrim is distinctive enough to be used a descriptor beyond that.

XCOM is much different then say Battle Brothers though, to the extent that I would consider them to be in somewhat different genres.
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October 27th, 2017, 00:08
Originally Posted by ChienAboyeur View Post
Or simply, just as turn based is wished to mean exclusively ugoigo, tactical RPG must mean exclusively XCOM like stuff.
Science fiction is anything published as science fiction. It looks like a weird definition, but that's how tags work. That's exactly why all the vain attempts to precisely define what RPG is are vowed to fail, it's mechanically easier to extend a tag than to restrict it. And no despotic fan community will stop other people to use the RPG tag.

And that's why Diablo like genre really exist, from the number of games arguing in their com their strong links with Diablo, or from people arguing it, communities of fans, reviewers, writers, you tubers, and so on.

The point is past XCOM release many games argued have XCOM qualities, and some about being an XCOM approach.

I don't remind that western Tactic RPG existed before XCOM. I doubt it's ever been evoked for Temple of elemental Evil, and Western RPG left promptly turn based. But for sure it doesn't make XCOM like the new Western Tactic RPG, it's more projects encouraged by XCOM sell success.

So most Western Tactic RPG are past XCOM release, but there's definitely something that occurred that was wider than XCOM, and that was about turn based. And clearly crowd funding is the origin, not XCOM.

So I buy that Western Tactic RPG doesn't make XCOM clone. Blackguards series and Banner Saga series don't qualify. But it's more perverse than this affirmation. Western Tactic RPG doesn't seem a tag that makes sell, many people believes XCOM tag has much more chance to achieve it. So more Western Tactic RPG will want evoke the XCOM tag than Tactic RPG tag, more reviewers or fans will use it. This would build an XCOM tag.

There was a dynamic to build an XCOM tag. But it looks like it won't happen, there's missing another game not XCOM and using the tag and selling a lot. And XCOM 2 sells failed build a second chance through a second wave so it will probably not happen even if there's definitely multiple games that contributed to setup an XCOM tag so the genre, even when going further than a very precise cloning.

So for sure any Western Tactic RPG doesn't qualify for building of an XCOM tag. But some of them very clearly contributed because of their com and/or comments about them, as for example Hard West, but not at all Divinity Original Sin.

And that's why Hard West is XCOM like and not Divinity Original Sin. Your opinion or my opinion doesn't matter, it's all the speech around Hard West that matter.
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