Baldur's Gate 3 - Gameplay and Impressions

ChienAboyeur said:

This makes having poor tastes somehow being lucky.

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One's garbage is another's trasure.
One's poor taste…

ChienAboyeur said:

Corto Maltese

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Sold full stories with no bullshit DLC, lootboxes and other scamming schemes. And wasn't streaming.

Kylex said:

To those who think BG3 is not a Baldur's Gate game:
Don't you remember how some game series have changed over time? Elder Scrolls, Ultima or GTA?
E.g. the change from 90° top town GTA2 to 3D GTA3 - it changed the game experience completely, but GTA3 was the GTA that got this series so popular.
A game series should be allowed to change over time - and has to change over time to attract a new audience. The old will not grow.

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GTA is arguably the worst example case. From the perspective of playing the series in chronological context at least, that is playing the various GTAs in their year of release.

The GTA series is an example of how it could be hard to pinpoint what makes things the way they are.
And the vanity of reducing a thing to certain elements (even though this approach is tremendously popular with so called RPGers who see RPG in terms of elements)

There is an obvious evolution in the series that matches technological progress. But it establishes a continuity beyond the technological constraints.
There is something making a GTA game a GTA game and it sticks so far. A touch.A vibration. It might disappear. The continuity exists though.

Going UgoIgo,as it was mentioned before the presentation, ensures devs with a strong line of fanatics who will keep defending the product no matter what. They have their UgoIgo sharia. It goes through by claiming this is a BG product other than by name and papers.

Nevertheless, BG3 is a different case. It is a case of mongrelization. BG happened before D OS without D OS being that an obvious heir to BG. When D OS was released, BG was not an immediate reference.

And BG, by chronology, could not get D OS as a reference.

Basically, two products, one game, BG, that does not take after D OS. And a product, D OS, that does not take that much after BG.

Now BG3. When looking at it, D OS, does not require that much of an imagination.
BG 1 and 2, another issue. It must be look hard, harder and try again.

A blond, blue eyed, fair skinned man. Nothing wrong wanting the kid to look after the father. When the kid looks different, maybe time to wonder what the black colleague of the wife was at.

A main difference with the GTA series: there are obvious outside influences but each game reflects a progression from one to another. They refer first and most to each other.

BG3 refers at least as much to D OS than it does to BG.

Now a speculation for long term, 10 years. Substitution of population.

If this product gets popular and follow ups are made, BG4, 5,6, players will explain in ten years that the intruders never were BG3,4,5. Those will be the natives.
The impersonators will be BG1 and 2. They will be the illegitimate ones.

The american system, the american system.

It indeed looks like a mixture of D:OS and Dragon Age. And of course it makes sense to use the existing engine.

I couldn't care less for the name of the game, but one aspect for me that made the Baldur's Gate games the Baldur's Gate games was the change and the design of rural, wilderness and dungeon areas. The wilderness areas had a sense of openness calling for exploration. The small viallages and the city of Baldur's Gate have been designed very immersive, buzzing with life and quest density. That's what I hope to find in BG3 as well.

I haven't seen any rural areas in the videos or screenshots. Did I overlook them?

zypek said:

I watched Swen's presentation live for a bit and there were people raging in chat because it looked too much like a D:OS game. What did they expect?

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It is going to be streamed.

It is going to be a nice product to work with for streamers.

Streamers are urged to port from one product to another, they have no time to learn how to play.

And for sure, the population of D OS streamers is way larger than the population of BG and BG2 streamers combined.

They have no issue porting from D OS into BG 3.

For them, it had to be another D OS. Makes the money flow easierly.

Morrandir said:

It indeed looks like a mixture of D:OS and Dragon Age. And of course it makes sense to use the existing engine.

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Another in the mix. Makes things more complicated.

I couldn't care less for the name of the game, but one aspect for me that made the Baldur's Gate games the Baldur's Gate games was the change and the design of rural, wilderness and dungeon areas. The wilderness areas had a sense of openness calling for exploration. The small viallages and the city of Baldur's Gate have been designed very immersive, buzzing with life and quest density. That's what I hope to find in BG3 as well.

I haven't seen any rural areas in the videos or screenshots. Did I overlook them?

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If that sense of exploration only came from that, then it is likely BG3 will have it.
There will rural areas.

ChienAboyeur said:

There will rural areas.

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(Where) have you seen some?

registered to reply to the young trolls:

when you buy new cola x you expect it to be a cola brew not a fanta one, does this help you understand the elders? so if it smells , tastes and makes you feel like oranges than it ain't a cola . get it?

baldur's gate 3
was rtwp now it is tb ( and unlike kingmaker or poe it will not be converted to both modes , becauese it can't ones you have the maps done on small scale / god bless these folks )
graphicwise it had it's own design that can be converted to today models (kingmaker and poe like) , but they chose a dai kind of look
gameplay - open world large maps to tight spaces , 6 character freedom to 4 character turn based

why not make dos 3 and screw with a legend ?

It looks great, really !

If the scenario is as good as it seems, and regarding the level design, this will be awesome !

If only we could get a new Ultima game with this engine !

Having grown up with the BG games (played them over and over … not even sure how many times I played them … including expansions and sequels) I wasn't expecting BG3 to look the same (whether it feels the same … can't really tell from a video).

I most likely won't be playing anyhow, not unless I get really bored and desperate for something new, as the TB combat is a major turn-off for me. Also they might not have animal companions which is another turn-off, as is how the character starts.

That being said I thought the game looked beautiful graphic wise and watching the vids gave me a BG and DAO marriage vibe. So I don't have any issue with how it looks or anything I saw in game in regards to combat, dialogue, portraits, etc. But combat is a huge part of these games and not being a fan of TB means it would become a slogfest.

EDIT: Pathfinder gives me a bit more of that old school BG feeling really.

Didn't want to watch it all but what I did see did look a bit dark for my tastes, closer to DA:O (which I'm not a fan of) than BG. I also consider RTwP to be the "correct" way to do BG3.

All that really doesn't matter though, because I got the BG sequel I wished for in PF:KM and I don't doubt Owlcats next game will be awesome as well. So I simply regard this more as a bastard sequel to DOS, ToEE and NwN. And I'll gladly play that bastard as well, so pretty sure this will be a Day 1 purchase.

Zogar Sag said:

Yeah, you are probably right, BG3 isnt meant for old fags

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Mods, I would really hate to see the Codex's casual use of derogatory language being allowed to take root here.

Morrandir said:

(Where) have you seen some?

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Chorus appears: "On streams!"

TomRon said:

I also consider RTwP to be the "correct" way to do BG3.

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The ruleset is not the same as was in old BG games.

What did you see on presentation? Some magic hand pwning trashmobs and moving objects around, right? Assuming you have a party of 5 where each one is using the magic hand, what sort of RTwP could be better than TB in such case?

Then there's that hitting people with boots thing. What kind of AI game companions should have to go doing crazy stuff when shit hits the fan while you're concentrated on micromanaging one partymember with RTwP? What about trashmobs AI? You sneak and steal hostiles' weapons then enter a fight - what should RT(wP) AI do here? Cast "dispel effects" because there's nothing else it can do? Rush on your previously set traps as Tomi Undergallows easter egg?

If the ruleset edition used was the same as in old BG games, sure, RTwP. But with what was presented, I can't imagine how exactly would it work here.

JFarrell71 said:

Mods, I would really hate to see the Codex's casual use of derogatory language being allowed to take root here.

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Wow, here we go again! Really, whats up with this influx of zealots here picking on people!

joxer said:

Then there's that hitting people with boots thing. What kind of AI game companions should have to go doing crazy stuff when shit hits the fan while you're concentrated on micromanaging one partymember with RTwP?

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The hand and boot moments. Worth reminding.

On this site, an interview read that they aim at bringing PnP degree of freedom, contingency of systems and stuff, thinking out of the box etc

Great moments in this regard because in the interview's thread, it was stated that it would lead players to think within the box (for various causes) even though they would claim they do not.

Indeed, killing an enemy with a boot is a trademark moment in any PnP RPGer, this is when people start to understand freedom, true freedom given to them in PnP (while it does not satisfy the ego of powermongers who revel at the thought of killing using a boot)

Again, the matter of self perception, this helps players painting themselves as creative, original thinkers or whatever.
A point that was supposed to be made but forgotten.

What about trashmobs AI? You sneak and steal hostiles' weapons then enter a fight - what should RT(wP) AI do here? Cast "dispel effects" because there's nothing else it can do? Rush on your previously set traps as Tomi Undergallows easter egg?

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Expectations on a RTwP combat AI are different.
Regarding this UgoIgo product, it could be noticed that close combat units leave movement to ranged units, no tieing in close combat and stuff. Which could be an expectation for a UgoIgo game. Movement is not hindered in this product, even by UgoIgo standards, that usually struggle to associate a combat cost to movement.

Morrandir said:

(Where) have you seen some?

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The product is going to be released in EA.

If indeed all it took to bring that sense of exploration in BG was rural areas, there will be rural areas. They are going to listen to customers. An EA is made for that.

Now the sense of exploration provided in BG might come from something else or more, it could have worked with or without rural areas.

In all cases, early access, they are going to satisfy as much as possible short cuts like exploration in BG, marker: rural areas.

ChienAboyeur said:

rural areas

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If I remember correctly the presentation, you will be able to explore rooftops.
Not just one. Which pretty much means different landscapes throughout the game.

And hopefully, of course, roleplaying Corvo Attano. Expanding the question about the game into: is this BG3, DOS3 or DH3?

Zogar Sag said:

Wow, here we go again! Really, whats up with this influx of zealots here picking on people!

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Express yourself without using slurs, and I won't "pick on" you.

Turn based system outside the strategy genre seldom did the trick for me.
Epic and stresfull battles that stayed in my memory didnt include a menacing dragon wait...his turn to do his aoe

That said the flavor of my Baldurs Gate memories heavily included plot twists,memorable characters,and dark aesthetics.Battle mechanics for me was always a tool in the system servicing progression and storytelling so fingers crossed,Larian will deliver in that front.
(Yes it is obvious that my favorable Larian RPG was the original Divine Divinity)

joxer said:

Then there's that hitting people with boots thing. What kind of AI game companions should have to go doing crazy stuff when shit hits the fan while you're concentrated on micromanaging one partymember with RTwP? What about trashmobs AI? You sneak and steal hostiles' weapons then enter a fight - what should RT(wP) AI do here?

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Disclaimer up front: I'm fine with it being turn-based. I like turn-based games, RTwP games, action games… I generally do not give a shit what it is as long as it's a polished, interesting implmentation of whatever it is.

But you can do crazy stuff in RTwP. People often seem to forget the "pause" part of real-time with pause. Most people don't pause constantly, I would imagine, but you certainly can, either manually or (often) in settings. I've seen RTwP games where you could pause the action after every conceivable thing. If you want to make a RTwP game into a turn based game, you essentially can, though it would obviously be simultaneous turn based and not alternating sides.

And RTwP can easily handle things like sneaking up to an enemy and stealing a weapon to kick off a fight. The games we're talking about did that, in fact, as did POE and others. Well, not stealing a weapon specifically, but that's not a function of RTwP or the lack thereof, that's a lack of the option to steal a weapon. You can certainly go into stealth and arrange your party around the enemies, do backstabs, etc.

love the turn-based but i wouldn't be shocked if they added Rtwp eventually
These guys are very talented