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Default Kingdom Come - Play a normal One

February 16th, 2018, 15:14
Originally Posted by joxer View Post
KCD is not a common grinder so I don't see any reason why would someone savescum in it ever.
Some people can't stand failures or losing or not having made that perfect choice selection…and they don't want to spend all their money on Schnapps and get drunk (by the way there are potions that remove that status).

The game save system is designed so early on you do not do lots of stupid things that can be rescued by a save, but as you advance you have more money so you can have more owned bed and buy/make more Schnapps to save more often.

I think players have issues grasping the "save via in-game items" too. Even me, I used the "Schnapps save" despite standing right beside my owned bed…twice.
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February 16th, 2018, 16:41
I'm all about saving whenever, when it comes to save game systems… I even dislike checkpoint systems, though I will play them, and most of the time they are done reasonably, without too much frustration and annoyance at where they put the checkpoints. But if it was up to me, quick saves on demand would be the universal standard.
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February 16th, 2018, 18:01
I too think there should ideally be an option to at least save and quit but more broadly speaking, to save anywhere. There were some comments about maybe being too weak to resit it… maybe true but imo that wouldn't count as a reason to not give users the option. It's a bit like alcohol… some people can't resist it and it lead to bad behaviour for them - but would we want the government to ban the sale of alcohol to protect people - or force a particular behaviour? I think the history of prohibition in the US has already resoundingly answered that. People should get to choose their vice and how to employ it.

And on that note, I definitely save scum sometimes. I want to enjoy the games I play - and that means playing 'em how I want to. Some games I never do it and stick with one save the whole game and some I use it a lot. For example, I just started playing Xcom 2 and am saving almost after every turn in the battles because I'm still learning the mechanics of the game and am not interested in having to replay a whole battle because I did something where I did not understand how the game systems worked. As the game continues, I'll probably save less often and its great to have the option to do that. OTOH, I'm also finally playing Witcher 3 and have only 1 save file because I'm ok rolling with whatever happens there.

Anyway, I say more options are always better and those who can't resist the temptation of save scumming should attend their local Save Scumming Anonymous group or go get absolved for their sins by a priest!
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February 16th, 2018, 18:09
I liked the approach Severance: Blade of Darkness took where it would rate you depending on how many times you saved the game.

For this title, I'm glad to hear that they are implementing save on exit but I'm totally okay with limited saves so it's not a deal breaker for me.
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February 16th, 2018, 18:53
Originally Posted by SSIGuy View Post
I too think there should ideally be an option to at least save and quit but more broadly speaking, to save anywhere. There were some comments about maybe being too weak to resit it… maybe true but imo that wouldn't count as a reason to not give users the option. It's a bit like alcohol… some people can't resist it and it lead to bad behaviour for them - but would we want the government to ban the sale of alcohol to protect people - or force a particular behaviour? I think the history of prohibition in the US has already resoundingly answered that. People should get to choose their vice and how to employ it.

And on that note, I definitely save scum sometimes. I want to enjoy the games I play - and that means playing 'em how I want to. Some games I never do it and stick with one save the whole game and some I use it a lot. For example, I just started playing Xcom 2 and am saving almost after every turn in the battles because I'm still learning the mechanics of the game and am not interested in having to replay a whole battle because I did something where I did not understand how the game systems worked. As the game continues, I'll probably save less often and its great to have the option to do that. OTOH, I'm also finally playing Witcher 3 and have only 1 save file because I'm ok rolling with whatever happens there.

Anyway, I say more options are always better and those who can't resist the temptation of save scumming should attend their local Save Scumming Anonymous group or go get absolved for their sins by a priest!
I think you misunderstood our point, though. Usually there is not an option in the game to cater to an Ironman, limited saving mode. So the people who like to save anywhere at all times are always catered to, where we Limited Save Mutants have to either force ourselves to not abuse the system or play the game with house rules (which, mutant or not we're still human and it's hard to resist. ) And it removes the tension added by a fleshed-out, real mode because you know, psychologically, that you can re-load at any point (again, mutant speaking here. .)

So that's why I'm in favor of actual in-game options. Want to limit your saving to enhance other systems in the game? Turn on the Ironman Mode. Want to save anywhere? Don't turn it on. But my point personally was that people who like Ironman Mode or limited saving/challenge options rarely have an option like that in RPGs.

I think in the future options like this would let the games be more customizable from person to person. I personally like to have more limited carrying space in RPGs, more item and inventory management and the like. I'd like a balanced Consequences Mode that doesn't let you re-load on story decisions or if you're caught stealing, etc.. But these features continue to be removed or not implemented at all because they are niche or too challenging, which I get, but I wish there would be real options for them instead of altogether removing them.

Hope that clears it up a bit.

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February 16th, 2018, 19:06
Originally Posted by SSIGuy View Post
more broadly speaking, to save anywhere.
You can save anywhere (as long as you have Schnapps), except while in combat and in cutscenes which is rather common in video games. Schnapps is not some super rare super expensive commodity past the prologue might I add.

In fact, if you can't deal with the saves system being tied to stuff in game, you probably won't be able to stand most of the other features in the game. This is a game where taking a bath and washing your clothes has gameplay ramifications.

edit
Auto-save on exit, deleted on load is confirmed as "the plan".
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February 16th, 2018, 19:10
Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
You can save anywhere (as long as you have Schnapps), except while in combat and in cutscenes which is rather common in video games. Schnapps is not some super rare super expensive commodity past the prologue might I add.

In fact, if you can't deal with the saves system being tied to stuff in game, you probably won't be able to stand most of the other features in the game. This is a game where taking a bath and washing your clothes has gameplay ramifications.

edit
Auto-save on exit, deleted on load is confirmed as "the plan".
Sounds dope actually. Just wish it had magic, monsters and lore. Or that these features were implemented in an isometric CRPG-type game.

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February 16th, 2018, 19:16
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
I think you misunderstood our point, though. Usually there is not an option in the game to cater to an Ironman, limited saving mode. So the people who like to save anywhere at all times are always catered to, where we Limited Save Mutants have to either force ourselves to not abuse the system or play the game with house rules (which, mutant or not we're still human and it's hard to resist. ) And it removes the tension added by a fleshed-out, real mode because you know, psychologically, that you can re-load at any point (again, mutant speaking here. .)

So that's why I'm in favor of actual in-game options. Want to limit your saving to enhance other systems in the game? Turn on the Ironman Mode. Want to save anywhere? Don't turn it on. But my point personally was that people who like Ironman Mode or limited saving/challenge options rarely have an option like that in RPGs.

I think in the future options like this would let the games be more customizable from person to person. I personally like to have more limited carrying space in RPGs, more item and inventory management and the like. I'd like a balanced Consequences Mode that doesn't let you re-load on story decisions or if you're caught stealing, etc.. But these features continue to be removed or not implemented at all because they are niche or too challenging, which I get, but I wish there would be real options for them instead of altogether removing them.

Hope that clears it up a bit.
Yeah, I see what you're saying… I'm all for more options. If games can cater to both that way, then great.
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February 16th, 2018, 19:18
Originally Posted by SSIGuy View Post
Yeah, I see what you're saying… I'm all for more options. If games can cater to both that way, then great.
I see sports games that started doing this a decade ago with great results. I always cite the NBA 2K series, which not only has modes, difficulty levels, and broader options (turning on/off convenience features, for example), but also detailed, specific sliders that you can change to your liking. You can also make a slider set, share it easily with the community, download someone else's or even download entire roster overhauls that tweak all the stats for each player in the game. I've been hoping RPGs would start taking this on a bit and trying it. I think it would be cool if done in a smart and efficient way.

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February 16th, 2018, 20:25
This looks interesting. But I prefer a more fantastic power-curve. Something like how the protagonists of various Gothic-esque titles start out: pretty weak and needing to pull mobs back to stronger allies, to whomping bigger baddies by themselves at the end. Otherwise given the work put into atmospherics and simulated realism, the devs' are to be commended for their efforts.
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February 16th, 2018, 21:48
Originally Posted by Dhraiden View Post
This looks interesting. But I prefer a more fantastic power-curve. Something like how the protagonists of various Gothic-esque titles start out: pretty weak and needing to pull mobs back to stronger allies, to whomping bigger baddies by themselves at the end. Otherwise given the work put into atmospherics and simulated realism, the devs' are to be commended for their efforts.
Why do you have the impression that you can't "whomp bigger baddies by your-character-self" late game in Kingdom Come: Deliverance?

You can, once you raise the combat skills high enough.
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February 16th, 2018, 23:45
Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
Why do you have the impression that you can't "whomp bigger baddies by your-character-self" late game in Kingdom Come: Deliverance?

You can, once you raise the combat skills high enough.
The difference is that bigger baddies in Gothic are giant trolls, magical dragons and fire-breathing giant lizards. What are bigger baddies in KC-D, heavily armored, very strong warriors? Which is cool, but eh. I need that magic in my settings.

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February 17th, 2018, 00:09
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
The difference is that bigger baddies in Gothic are giant trolls, magical dragons and fire-breathing giant lizards. What are bigger baddies in KC-D, heavily armored, very strong warriors? Which is cool, but eh. I need that magic in my settings.
Well it is a historical RPG after all.
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February 17th, 2018, 01:28
Originally Posted by Fluent View Post
The difference is that bigger baddies in Gothic are giant trolls, magical dragons and fire-breathing giant lizards. What are bigger baddies in KC-D, heavily armored, very strong warriors? Which is cool, but eh. I need that magic in my settings.
I tend to need monsters in my setting too, but I'm not missing them in this game so far.

I think the fact that there aren't any monsters makes your action have even more weight. I felt sorry when I accidentally killed a bandit who was surrendering to me last night for example, I feel nothing when I kill monsters in other RPGs, they are just monsters.
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February 17th, 2018, 02:28
My combat style is just too spammy and hectic. So when they decide to surrender, they likely already got the final strike coming.

What I absolutely like about the game is it's realistic world design. There isn't just a City with 5 houses, and all houses have a purpose. And the game doesn't limit the landscape and the towns to the most "significant". There are long ways between towns. And there are actually long ways between houses. Running around in a small town actually gives you the feeling to be in a realistic town, with lots of room between the houses, you can enter pretty much all houses in the game I think and it just feels like a believable world rather than a backdrop.
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February 17th, 2018, 05:59
Originally Posted by Kordanor View Post
My combat style is just too spammy and hectic. So when they decide to surrender, they likely already got the final strike coming.

What I absolutely like about the game is it's realistic world design. There isn't just a City with 5 houses, and all houses have a purpose. And the game doesn't limit the landscape and the towns to the most "significant". There are long ways between towns. And there are actually long ways between houses. Running around in a small town actually gives you the feeling to be in a realistic town, with lots of room between the houses, you can enter pretty much all houses in the game I think and it just feels like a believable world rather than a backdrop.
Definitely miss this aspect with respect to modern isometric games.
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February 17th, 2018, 07:43
I'm really liking the game so far. It does what the article talks about quite well. I'm liking being Henry the peasant way more than saving the world by beating waves of the Blight popping up out of the ground.
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February 17th, 2018, 10:44
Originally Posted by azarhal View Post
edit
Auto-save on exit, deleted on load is confirmed as "the plan".
That sounds bad - what if your only saved game is corrupted? That's another reason to have multiple saves. Does the "schnapps" save overwrite your last save? If so, that's a bad idea for the same reason.
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February 17th, 2018, 13:39
Originally Posted by booboo View Post
That sounds bad - what if your only saved game is corrupted? That's another reason to have multiple saves. Does the "schnapps" save overwrite your last save? If so, that's a bad idea for the same reason.
There is currently 3 different types of saves (i.e. 3 different icons in the loading screening and naming conventions in the save folder):
- auto-saving at certain point in the story. There are special main quest start auto-saves and normal auto-saves (no rolling is happening from what I can see).
- Schnapps are supposed to be 3 rolling saves that aren't overwritten by anything but themselves
- sleeping in (certain) beds, makes normal saves (no rolling from what I can see).

I suspect this "save on exit" is going to be another type for easy identification.
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February 17th, 2018, 16:04
Ah, there are multiple save slots at least, that's good. I'll play this at some point, but I look forward to doing so once they have ironed out al the wrinkles (and it's cheaper).
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