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Default VtM: Bloodlines - Paradox Considering Sequel

May 22nd, 2018, 12:52
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
Is this because of the System Shock thing? I think they are back on track with that.
Yes, it is. Just because that infamous "February Update feat. Stephen Kick". We may not agree here, but I wouldn't put my faith on them again, not before they release their SS Reboot/Remaster/Whatever. I'm a backer and I don't even know what I'll receive after the end of development, *IF* it gets to an end.

Nightdive's PR sucks a ton, everybody now know this, and the February Update aforementioned is IMHO one of the worst pieces of PR produced in the last years. That KS update didn't come to enlight us about the project; on contrary, it came to confuses us. We don't still clearly know what happened to them; unless I'm plainly wrong here (and if you have reliable sources, you can please point me out the URLs), all we have are bits of speculation and "reading between the lines" of what was written. First, they say they weren't being faithful to the game's original vision, scope creeped in, the money they got is over, mea culpa, etc. Next update they say "it's all OK, guys! Do not worry!". Really???? WTF was that Feb Update?

Having said that, and considering VtM: Bloodlines is also one of those well-loved franchises that deserve an update, muck like SS does, would you still put your faith in NightDive Studios to develop a sequel to VtM Bllodlines? Blindly, without first seeing how/what will be the outcome of SS development, how the game will fare etc? C'mon Silver, VtM is not Rage 2 which nobody gives a damn about it.
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Last edited by henriquejr; May 22nd, 2018 at 15:23. Reason: Typos
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May 22nd, 2018, 13:16
@henriquejr
Kickstarter is a different kettle of fish and is different from usual development. Nightdive are newbies at this. I think they got too ambitious as many developers tend to do because they got over excited about what they could do and ran up against scope creep. Nightdive had a second look at it and re-evaluated against the Kickstarter goals. This is not all that uncommon. A company like Nintendo re-evaluate designs and throw it away all the time. Then they start again. Kojima does this too. The difference is you don't hear about it.

You will remember it was Stephen Kick who resurrected System Shock 2 in the first place so people can buy it again. Also Nightdive have redone alot of games and brought them back from the dead. The intention is good and Nightdive have commonly delivered on their intentions and some with the remastered games. I trust in good character and I consider Nightdive to have better character than alot of developers in this industry. I think they could of planned and messaged things better but I think they will ultimately deliver in spades.
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May 22nd, 2018, 14:11
The interview is short but telling. First they want to experiment with "lesser" ips, like Werewolf, but realizing that Vampire is their most valuable IP, want to have a long term plan with a developer they have faith in. At this moment there is no long term plan and no developer, so any possible sequel is probably a good 3+ years away.
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May 22nd, 2018, 15:48
Originally Posted by Silver View Post
@henriquejr
Kickstarter is a different kettle of fish and is different from usual development. Nightdive are newbies at this. I think they got too ambitious as many developers tend to do because they got over excited about what they could do and ran up against scope creep. Nightdive had a second look at it and re-evaluated against the Kickstarter goals. This is not all that uncommon. A company like Nintendo re-evaluate designs and throw it away all the time. Then they start again. Kojima does this too. The difference is you don't hear about it.

You will remember it was Stephen Kick who resurrected System Shock 2 in the first place so people can buy it again. Also Nightdive have redone alot of games and brought them back from the dead. The intention is good and Nightdive have commonly delivered on their intentions and some with the remastered games. I trust in good character and I consider Nightdive to have better character than alot of developers in this industry. I think they could of planned and messaged things better but I think they will ultimately deliver in spades.
I acknowledge they successfully brought some IPs back from the dead and I give'em Kudos for that. But the System Shock reboot is their most ambitious project and they kinda entered a dead end street - lack of money, scope creep, non-optimized planning (to say the least) - and they almost crashed the car, if you understand the metaphor I'm using. Yes, they said in April 2018 KS update they're still doing the game, and I feel relieved for that. But even if they have good intentions - and I firmly believe they have - those good intentions aren't enough to deliver a game, sadly (the game I'm referring to is VtM Bloodlines sequel). There is a common saying in Brazil (I don't know if there are variants in other languages) which say: "Hell is full of good intentions".

Besides, I don't think they have the organizational structure and manpower to work simultaneously on such two big projects: SS reboot (which will be delayed) and VtM Bloodlines sequel.
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May 22nd, 2018, 16:15
Originally Posted by henriquejr View Post
I acknowledge they successfully brought some IPs back from the dead and I give'em Kudos for that. But the System Shock reboot is their most ambitious project and they kinda entered a dead end street - lack of money, scope creep, non-optimized planning (to say the least) - and they almost crashed the car, if you understand the metaphor I'm using. Yes, they said in April 2018 KS update they're still doing the game, and I feel relieved for that. But even if they have good intentions - and I firmly believe they have - those good intentions aren't enough to deliver a game, sadly (the game I'm referring to is VtM Bloodlines sequel). There is a common saying in Brazil (I don't know if there are variants in other languages) which say: "Hell is full of good intentions".

Besides, I don't think they have the organizational structure and manpower to work simultaneously on such two big projects: SS reboot (which will be delayed) and VtM Bloodlines sequel.
Agreed. It would be a stretch for them doing two games at the same time. They are the studio most likely to do honour to the original Vampire game through imo.
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May 22nd, 2018, 16:48
Originally Posted by henriquejr View Post
I acknowledge they successfully brought some IPs back from the dead and I give'em Kudos for that. But the System Shock reboot is their most ambitious project and they kinda entered a dead end street - lack of money, scope creep, non-optimized planning (to say the least) - and they almost crashed the car, if you understand the metaphor I'm using. Yes, they said in April 2018 KS update they're still doing the game, and I feel relieved for that. But even if they have good intentions - and I firmly believe they have - those good intentions aren't enough to deliver a game, sadly (the game I'm referring to is VtM Bloodlines sequel). There is a common saying in Brazil (I don't know if there are variants in other languages) which say: "Hell is full of good intentions".

Besides, I don't think they have the organizational structure and manpower to work simultaneously on such two big projects: SS reboot (which will be delayed) and VtM Bloodlines sequel.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions

Maybe a bit extreme in this case but I think we got your point


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May 22nd, 2018, 17:19
Well regardless what we think Paradox will most likely pick a small unknown developer, and they will get most of the the revenue earned. Just read the PDX interview.
“We always work super long-term,” VP of business development Shams Jorjani says. “If we have the choice of investing in our IP and ourselves, rather than Games Workshop or somebody else’s IP, we’d rather choose ourselves. Us owning IP ends up being just a direct result of us paying for everything. We’re taking all the financial risk, so we should see most of the financial upside as well.”
So no known developer will make the game just for pennies on the dollar.
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Last edited by Couchpotato; May 22nd, 2018 at 17:32. Reason: Added Interview Text
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May 22nd, 2018, 17:38
would like to see a turn-based sequel to VtM, but that's my thing.
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May 22nd, 2018, 18:07
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Well regardless what we think Paradox will most likely pick a small unknown developer(..)
Which is a risk of sizeable amount, but it's their IP and I assume they know what they want.
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May 22nd, 2018, 18:25
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
The road to hell is paved with good intentions
"It is often said that the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. This is not accurate. The road to Hell is in fact paved with frozen estate agents."

Terry Pratchett
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May 22nd, 2018, 19:22
Would back on Kickstarter. 10/10 for concept.
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May 30th, 2018, 00:43
PCGamesN posted another article last week about this topic also.

Link - https://www.pcgamesn.com/vampire-the…e-bloodlines-2
There are very few names in PC gaming with pedigree like Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines. This RPG and dark soap opera about a fledgling bloodsucker in LA was so freeform and ambitious that it finished off its creator, Troika Games. But its reputation has given it a long unlife, both as a touchpoint for great game writing and player choice, and as a focal point for modding - continuous community bug fixing makes Bloodlines more playable today than ever.

When Paradox bought White Wolf and Vampire’s World of Darkness universe in 2015, the opportunity seemed obvious. The purchase freed up the licence for new developers just as the publisher pursued a new interest in RPGs with Obsidian. And yet: still no Bloodlines 2.
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May 30th, 2018, 02:05
I can see a Vampire's World of Darkness board game in the near future.
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May 30th, 2018, 06:04
That one line, "finished off its creator", just reading that almost physically hurts. Pesky truth that it is.
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May 30th, 2018, 18:57
One big strength is the original franchise was the meta world and the metaplot that used to parallel the history of the world.

The feature was dropped, would be interesting to see how it is handled as a sequel should be set in the 2010s or something.
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