Kingmaker Pathfinder Kingmaker release thread

Pathfinder: Kingmaker
https://steamcommunity.com/games/Pathfinder_Kingmaker/announcements/detail/1712950695554449926

Pathfinder: Kingmaker – First DLC "Bloody Mess" available!

Right before the spookiest night of the year Owlcat Games and Deep Silver would like to say thank you to all the fans who played the game so far and take this opportunity to announce a free DLC for Pathfinder: Kingmaker. The “blood on characters” will add more realism to the game as the faces of your trusted companions and awful enemies are stained with red and their clothes will be soaked in blood during the fight.

I don't know if this is intentional, but I suspect they are making fun of their own patch situation. :lol:
 
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Any of this true?
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198017188773/recommended/640820/
The UI: This is almost entirely copied from the Pillars of Eternity UI with only a few exceptions, those exceptions are any of the good things from the POE UI. Movement speed in the game is set slow motion it cannot be increased there is no fast mode. There is no A.I tweaking for your characters to let act in a certain way or favor a certain tactic there is on and off and that's it. You can choose for companions to be able to cast their spells automatically but it results in them only casting one spell out of the entire list usually a level 1 spell and then reverting to cantrips. You often have to pause and try and move characters to the desired place because they got confused and started running back and forth or bumped into other characters and wouldn't let them through.

The game itself: The core features have been added in with a horrendous eye to balance, it has been pointed out many times by many players in the forum that if you threw the kind of scenarios and monsters with invincible stats at a group in PNP as a DM then you would quickly become a very lonely DM with no friends; this is very accurate.

The magic system is awful, the point about low leveled wizard spells is that they are supposed to do better damage than a low level fighter attack but they always hit and have limited uses and can bypass certain resistances. PK has made it so that any spell that requires a successful attack ranged or touched misses 90% time on all difficulty levels it is however still limited a number of uses per rest not per combat except for cantrips (level 0 spells). 75% of the spells are useless because they insist on damaging and effecting everyone making any mage with color spray or mind fog or sleep or confusion and so on more of a liability than an asset. Some of them only damage enemies so you end up carefully searching through a large collection of useless choices to function. This actually makes sorcerors far more viable as a class.

The alignment system: This is just awful, you have to pick one of the static alignments from lawful good to chaotic evil and during the course of the game you dialogue choices will shift that, on top of this some classes are restricted to alignment and will stop working if you drift out of them. Now I know that's standard ADnD and standard Pathfinder from the set alignment system but it's implemented in such a way that you are often only left with a conversation choices which are not be a complete♥♥♥♥♥♥♥(neutral good) walk away without committing yourself to anything (neutral) do something nefarious (lawful evil) or kill everyone in sight (chaotic evil and for some reason quite often lawful good).

The dialogue: Clearly written by several different people with entirely different intentions regarding how the story should play out, the NPC's are often interesting in depth characters (as much as one can expect from these games) who despite their alignments actually manage to be different people who don't all act the same way. Your characters dialogue on the other hand is just utterly bland choices which are often locked behind this is not available because you're not neutral but still includes the chaotic evil option to kill everyone so very wishy washy or just shoehorned into a certain action. For instance at some point there is a choice between saving burning slaves from death (chaotic good) or letting them die and pursue revenge (chaotic evil) there just isn't an option for anything else you have to pick options outside of your alignment to continue and it really breaks the immersion.

The Kingdom management: Gosh this list is long isn't it? This was supposed to be the real stand out feature of this game because it combines running a kingdom with the adventuring side of things. Like most of the game it starts out feeling promising and exciting and eventually turns into a painful chore which is depressing because it requires you to know things in advance that your character couldn't possibly know in order to avoid disaster. Almost all quests have a hidden timer which will tick down and destroy your kingdom resulting in game over. Fair enough added difficulty makes the game challenging etc. Other quests are specifically designed to hit you and your kingdom just a little bit after every main story event so if you rushed off to get on top of that problem you've screwed your kingdom again.

Advisors: For the kingdom this gets a whole new category, to run your kingdom you must appoint advisors from various npcs, these are very limited and the game happily lets you permanently dismiss or kill most of these people without warning you at all that it will make you lose the game 40 hours later. You have no logical course of action if one of these advisors decides to leave or resign to replace them which results in you losing the game as your kingdom crumbles. There are option to turn off kingdom management which all the fanboys of the game keep telling you to do even though you might actually want to play that part and just have it work but even the game often fails and you lose because it's incredibly unstable and buggy.

As of now it is impossible to actually finish this game due to gamebreaking bugs.

I mean I do love that point of chaotic evil logic - let them die because it's a reason for revenge. Or lawful good - kill everyone in sight because, I guess, the chaos must be "cleansed". :D
Still…
 
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Any of this true?
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198017188773/recommended/640820/

I mean I do love that point of chaotic evil logic - let them die because it's a reason for revenge. Or lawful good - kill everyone in sight because, I guess, the chaos must be "cleansed". :D
Still…

UI: There are similarities to POE1/POE2, like most UI for these type of games (I considering Kingmaker to have the better one). If something looks nice as a feature other companies will probably copy it. There is no auto-AI, I don't miss it. Everyone is complaining about the walking speed. Maybe they should try clicking farther away from the party? I didn't have an issue with the walking speed considering most maps aren't that big.

balance: some people think everything they encounter in the game should match their party level all the time and others think that Challenging and higher is supposed to be core settings or something. People tested the different settings and you can get core Pathfinder difficulty with them and it land somewhere between Normal and Challenging. Because you can rest wherever you want, there is a lot more "hard" encounters than what a DM would generally put in a sessions though. That doesn't change that some encounters are meant to be done later with a higher level party. There was also some bug at launch with the random encounter algo that caused some with higher challenge rating to spawn (I never encountered any before it was patched though).

magic system: That should be made toward Pathfinder pnp and not the game. Owlcats is following the rules there (i.e -4 to attack rolls unless you pick a feat, well 2 feats because the one you want has a prerequisite) and the spells are per the rules as far as I've seen (at low levels). Whoever believe that low level spellcasters spells deal more damage than a melee fighter attack in D&D/Pathfinder is very confused too.

alignment: sound like someone misunderstood how it works. It's not a "always pick neutral good because I'm neutral good" system, it's a "you have these choices, they all have impact, pick one" system (reminds me of NWN: Shadow of the Undrentide).

dialogues: some dialogue have pre-requisite, some have DC checks and others depends on previous decisions. I got a side quest where there was multiple alternative ways of resolving it, some required DC checks or a specific alignment and some just plain A,B,C choices. It's more in dept than most RPGs these days…and very D&Dish in nature.

Kingdom management: I can understand not liking it, but at the same time every problems comes with a clear "you have X time to deal with this" when you get the quest related to them even if the quest doesn't show the timer. In other world, learn to manage your trip outside the capital. There is a lot of "don't make dumbass decisions" if you want to avoid kingdom death too.

Advisors: If you succeed in killing/dismissing all of them, I think you have some issues…

I'm pretty sure the game can be completed now (one entry at Howlongtobeat: 160 hours…).
 
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One problem of Kingdom management is not enough evil advisors. Sure you have a couple but most are neutral, or good alignment. Hopefully it gets fixed with future DLC.

As for X amount of days my personal game trainer stops time from advancing while traveling, and makes it possible to complete an advisor action in one day.
 
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Actually, there isn't enough advisors regardless of alignment :( I currently have arcane position empty because two people who can take up the position are appointed for different advisor roles
 
Is it possible to appoint custom companions for advisor positions?
 
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Kingdom management: I can understand not liking it, but at the same time every problems comes with a clear "you have X time to deal with this" when you get the quest related to them even if the quest doesn't show the timer. In other world, learn to manage your trip outside the capital.
Not liking is not the same as hating.

I always hated doomsday design. Yes, even in FO1 where I didn't know it's basically "fake" and nearimpossible to fail.
Phonegames are now abusing timed everything designs. And I hate it. To every developer who thinks timed everything is fun: Doomsday your mother and let me play the game at my own pace. A game is not supposed to be a job with deadlines!

Thanks for clarification. I felt a pressure to play Kingmaker before the end of the year even in broken state so I know if it deserves my goty vote.
It doesn't.

Yes, I'm also it's kickstarter backer. Does it mean I'll defend pisspoor phones designs? Not in a million years. If I knew they'll use timed quests (are those quests at all?), I wouldn't back the game.

Not sure what to think about random encounters explanation. You didn't clearly say if the game is basically a FTL clone where diceroll sometimes decides to drop impossible to deal with trashmobs on my head. If it does, then also, if I knew it's yet another roguelike game of chance and not skill, I'd have ignored it's kickstarter campaign.
 
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Not liking is not the same as hating.

I always hated doomsday design. Yes, even in FO1 where I didn't know it's basically "fake" and nearimpossible to fail.

There is a curse on your Kingdom that deteriorate the lands and kill people. Is your kingdom supposed to survive when you reach 0 livable area and 0 people after 2 months of ignoring it?

Not sure what to think about random encounters explanation. You didn't clearly say if the game is basically a FTL clone where diceroll sometimes decides to drop impossible to deal with trashmobs on my head. If it does, then also, if I knew it's yet another roguelike game of chance and not skill, I'd have ignored it's kickstarter campaign.

Never played FTL.

There is two type of random encounters. Some are quest related, others are pulled from an encounter list based on where you are on the map and your party level. For example, near the Stag Lord base, it's mostly low level bandits until you deal with the Stag Lord. Near another area it was imps and kobolds.

They trigger while you travel, but aren't that frequent from my experience.
 
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There is a curse on your Kingdom that deteriorate the lands and kill people. Is your kingdom supposed to survive when you reach 0 livable area and 0 people after 2 months of ignoring it?
And there is log in a phonegame every day to collect some reward. Skip a day and it's gone.
Then there are events that last a day, two, three in a phonegame also with rewards. Skip a few days, it's gone.
Doesn't stop there, phonegames equal microtransactions. So there's always some discount offer on something, that lasts for a day or two, sometimes even less like 12 hours. You better log in frequently so you don't miss the discount.
Finally, there is always something piling up over time automatically, energy/stamina/fuel or something - till it hits some cap. If you don't spend it within a time limit, it won't continue filling.

Curse you say? There is no curse. There are games with doomsday design and games that respect your time and pace. Kingmaker wants to be a phonegame. I hate phonegames.

EDIT:
You might and probably should ask me why I didn't criticize Stardew Valley or another game that contains time management for it. The answer is easy. Failing something because a timer (or date) expired doesn't instantly mean game over there. In new visual novels it's even a thing to fail such timers and unlock new routes otherwise not possible to follow.
Then let's remember Dragon Age Inquisition's War Table. Missions with timers. Pathetic? Yes. Worth criticizing? Yes. Worth mentioning at all when it also has instarespawns, trash filler tasks, no save anywhere, pisspoor tactic mode controls, sonar, etc? No.
But does failing a timer there mean game over? No.
 
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Is it possible to appoint custom companions for advisor positions?

I don't think so, unfortunately. The game needs more advisors and companions IMO. I would like to have seen more advisors at the very least. 12 companions is alright but I'd love to see 18-20, even if some don't have huge storylines. Just more gameplay options for your party composition would be cool.
 
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And there is log in a phonegame every day to collect some reward. Skip a day and it's gone.
Then there are events that last a day, two, three in a phonegame also with rewards. Skip a few days, it's gone.
Doesn't stop there, phonegames equal microtransactions. So there's always some discount offer on something, that lasts for a day or two, sometimes even less like 12 hours. You better log in frequently so you don't miss the discount.
Finally, there is always something piling up over time automatically, energy/stamina/fuel or something - till it hits some cap. If you don't spend it within a time limit, it won't continue filling.

Curse you say? There is no curse. There are games with doomsday design and games that respect your time and pace. Kingmaker wants to be a phonegame. I hate phonegames.

Time doesn't advance in Kingmaker unless you travel on the map or rest. I have no idea why you compare it to phonegames daily-logins.
 
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The point wasn't trying to compare but trying to explain what "doomsday design" means.
Now it only depends on the game publisher if they'll put some "token" as DLC on steam that prolongs whatever timer is ticking so a game over due to stupid timer expired frustrated player wastes money on microtransactions. Luckily the publisher is not Paradox nor EA. Not sure what will DS do as they've already experimented with rubbish DLC in Risen games.

Still. I've edited the post with examples that contain timed "quests" that won't result in game over.

EDIT:
I'm seriously thinking about writing this "token" timer prolonging DLC microtransaction on Steam's Kingmaker forum.
Will I ruin the game and cause negative reviews bombing if developer/publisher rep admits that's the idea behind the timer_expired=game_over thing and will "generously" offer a countermeasure as upcoming (paid) DLC?
 
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It's called game design. The game is not your typical RPG where "oh, let's spend 6 months picking flowers and get around to the main quest when we feel like it, even though the world is supposedly crumbling and doomsday is upon us". No, this game takes it seriously. If doomsday is upon the realm, you better react quick or you're going to face the consequences. It's a great design that more RPGs need to take to actually make the world feel as though it is dynamic and changing, rather than the static design we're so used to seeing in literally every. Single. RPG.

Finally, I never failed a timed quest for any reason. They give you ample warning that something is urgent and you follow through on it. If you don't, tough luck, you should pay attention to the game and how it's designed. You can still explore the map freely during downtime and while you're actively hunting for the main threats. Often small areas open up in the areas near the main quest parts, that you can peek in, deal with and not lose much time at all, giving you the option to do "side exploration" while still knowing that the world is crumbling and you have only so much time. As long as you don't abuse rest you will be fine, that's why the game gives you ample potions, scrolls and wands, not just to hoard like every. Single. RPG. But to actually use to supplement your party so you're not resting after every encounter.

Learn the way the game is designed and adapt. It's a fantastic design and I wouldn't change a thing, and hope future CRPGs take a lot of ideas from it. Otherwise we're back to Oblivion days of hell gates opening and supposedly demons pouring out and ravaging the land while you're busy picking flowers and making potions because you'd rather do that and the game doesn't care either way.
 
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It's called game design.
Um, I'm pretty sure I've used the word design somewhere.

Now a certain design can be:
- brilliant
- ingenious
- spectacular
- unique
- attractive
etc etc insert any praise.

On the other hand it can be:
- outdated
- rotten
- pisspoor
- misleading
- disastrous
- atrocious
etc etc insert any spit.

You might adore doomsday design so much you'd love to see it in every game. Your taste. Vote goty.
I hate it.
 
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Um, I'm pretty sure I've used the word design somewhere.

Now a certain design can be:
- brilliant
- ingenious
- spectacular
- unique
- attractive
etc etc insert any praise.

On the other hand it can be:
- outdated
- rotten
- pisspoor
- misleading
- disastrous
- atrocious
etc etc insert any spit.

You might adore doomsday design so much you'd love to see it in every game. Your taste. Vote goty.
I hate it.

Well maybe try to adapt to different styles. Every RPG has doomsday design but almost none of them take it seriously. The big bad evil is running amok and in every game you can just ignore it and do it on your own time. It's a breath of fresh air to see an RPG actually take threats seriously. Unless you want every RPG to follow the same exact pattern that I just described. I don't.
 
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Everyone is complaining about the walking speed.

I suspect that this is due to the default setting that you can only walk, not run when even moderately encumbered. I was put off by this too until I found the toggle in the options menu.

Making this the default was a bad choice: just loot bodies as normal, and you will quickly find yourself encumbered a short way into any given dungeon. I can't imagine anyone wanting to play the game with the encumbrance walking speed rule turned on.
 
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I suspect that this is due to the default setting that you can only walk, not run when even moderately encumbered. I was put off by this too until I found the toggle in the options menu.

Making this the default was a bad choice: just loot bodies as normal, and you will quickly find yourself encumbered a short way into any given dungeon. I can't imagine anyone wanting to play the game with the encumbrance walking speed rule turned on.

Walking only happens when Heavily encumbered, which is a state you should avoid at all costs. I never have that problem, movement speed is fine but I also don't loot every 2 gold piece of gear and make sure to empty my sellable wares or stash them in the safe box. If you keep en eye on encumbrance this is a non-issue (and I play with encumbrance determines movement speed ON).
 
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