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July 17th, 2021, 00:03
Originally Posted by Cm View Post
I am not sure I want to play this game any more. I have 4267 deaths listed in the manual. But remember all the creatures are not in there. And that does not include traps, lava pits, getting blown up by exploding barrels, falling off high rocks with no feather fall, drowning due to getting caught with your water breathing item in the bank. 585 Human kills was my highest.
Not to mention that the Monster Manuals started coming in some 4-5 years at least after we started playing. A lot of deaths unaccounted for, like when CM and I died so much in Into the Deep that we had to replace all our gear; we couldn't even afford to repair it. Or the many many times we wiped in Enter the Kobold or Devil Assault.

455 total deaths, top 10:

1: Human 54
2: Drow 27
3: Skeleton 26
4: Beholder 23
5: Hobgoblin 22
6: Troglodyte 15
7: Fire Elemental, Kobold, Halfling, Warforged 14
8: Mephit, Dragon 13
9: Spider 12
10: Troll, Gnoll, Minotaur, Abishai 11
19: Rat, 1

Honestly, I expected Abishai to be much higher, but then I think most of our deaths there were probably before the MM/they were nerfed to being slightly more sane.
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July 17th, 2021, 00:19
Originally Posted by Corwin View Post
Strange, I would have thought that most of Peter's deaths came from the various traps he regularly sets off!!
What are you doing on?

Like CM noted, these totals don't reflect all deaths, not even from critters since there are still a few that aren't counted anywhere yet.
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July 17th, 2021, 00:32
That'll change shortly, since MM8 is coming in U50.

Looks like Humans, Drow, and Skeletons are the top 3. I imagine if you could see total deaths of all time, Abishai, Fire elementals, and Beholders would be closer to the top though.

Also, check your rewards for the MM. I got a dozen moderate treasure hunter elixers and over 5k Remnants. Plus about 50 or so astral shards.
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July 17th, 2021, 12:23
Yeah, remants are easy to get as rewards !

You can tell there's a reward by looking at an account deed icon - if it is having blinking green borders, then licking on it will give you the reward !

The *really* difficult part are the companion creatures as rewards. These are imho insanely difficult to get.
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July 18th, 2021, 01:02
I was on briefly yesterday, just before I left to travel. Hope you all had a great session!!
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July 18th, 2021, 01:47
Alts are at 19, and getting closer to 20. Which means we probably need to decide if we're going to bring them around, farm tokens, or run epics for awhile until Dte gets back into being able to run regularly. Since I think many of us (me included) lack the tokens to TR, I'd suggest running Epics awhile, until we can get ready to TR. We should start plotting the next alt group as well.

Since I've been an Inquisitive or a caster the last few lives, I'll probably be going for something else. I'm thinking Bard Warchanter Barbarian, for many many cleaves and some support ability. No trapping, just pure melee dps plus buffing/support. I may instead just go pure Barbarian, since I haven't ran one in years.
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July 18th, 2021, 06:05
Originally Posted by azraelck View Post
Since I've been an Inquisitive or a caster the last few lives, I'll probably be going for something else. I'm thinking Bard Warchanter Barbarian, for many many cleaves and some support ability. No trapping, just pure melee dps plus buffing/support. I may instead just go pure Barbarian, since I haven't ran one in years.
I didn't do anything particularly special with Klubbir's barby build. It was somewhat a throwaway character/build that was pulled into the alt group. She seemed to hold up well enough with the alts with mostly crap gear, even with us running reaper most of the time. The class in general seems to be a bit of a resource sponge since the most viable strategy is to jump into the mob and cleave away, meaning you get a shitton of aggro with only light armor to protect you from the reaction. It was OK with our alt group because I could usually pull the mobs in tight and not take too much damage before the rest of y'all AoE'd everything to oblivion. So that's your potential future- useful but fairly repetitive and boring to run. Not necessarily a bad thing some nights when autopilot suits…
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July 18th, 2021, 06:47
Originally Posted by azraelck View Post
Alts are at 19, and getting closer to 20. Which means we probably need to decide if we're going to bring them around, farm tokens, or run epics for awhile until Dte gets back into being able to run regularly. Since I think many of us (me included) lack the tokens to TR, I'd suggest running Epics awhile, until we can get ready to TR. We should start plotting the next alt group as well.
FWIW, here's my extremely general and highly subject to change plot:

1) Botdu already mothballed
2) Klubbir (current group alt) to mothball whenever I disconnect from the alt group
3) Phuury (current group main) to become my solo main once the main group caps out
4) Wouldii can TR at any time, will become the new group main, likely as an acrobat rogue
5) Rhogu can TR at any time, probable new group alt, class TBD but leaning toward arcane archer or light-focused divine of some sort
6) Shadohe is a lvl13 pale master, my current solo toon since all the others are spoken for right now, could pull into a group alt if you guys made that much progress before I got back (unlikely, but anything's possible), otherwise will remain a solo alt for when I need a break from Phuury

I have ~35 tokens right now and could pick up a few more fairly easily so that's not a concern for me. Even though theoretically I've got 3 TR's to cover (Wouldii, Rhogu and Phuury), I could use that as an excuse to push Phuury to 30 before bringing him around which I really ought to do even if the idea doesn't thrill me. Since I don't know where Rhogu would need to be to match up with y'all, that will probably be the hardest challenge. If I bring him around now, I could end up too far ahead; if I wait until I get back in the saddle to do anything, I could be a good bit behind. Not sure how to address that problem right now- just too many unknowns.
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July 18th, 2021, 07:31
I have Ijii and Fireflash at 20, with Mureall close enough that I can easily get her to 20. Aerii is stuck at 24, and probably won't be able to do anything at the rate I'm leveling her.

Mirys is 10, which puts her too far ahead of any future groups unless I seriously push hard and get her to 20 quickly. Theoretically possible, but not likely.

Mureall has no gear except for her old Monk stuff, which I guess is an option. Light Monk can fairly effectively heal a group after a certain point, though they're squishy in today's game. Otherwise Fireflash would be the one to come around as a THF.
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July 18th, 2021, 10:41
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
I didn't do anything particularly special with Klubbir's barby build. It was somewhat a throwaway character/build that was pulled into the alt group. She seemed to hold up well enough with the alts with mostly crap gear, even with us running reaper most of the time. The class in general seems to be a bit of a resource sponge since the most viable strategy is to jump into the mob and cleave away, meaning you get a shitton of aggro with only light armor to protect you from the reaction. It was OK with our alt group because I could usually pull the mobs in tight and not take too much damage before the rest of y'all AoE'd everything to oblivion. So that's your potential future- useful but fairly repetitive and boring to run. Not necessarily a bad thing some nights when autopilot suits‚€¶
Klubbir didn't die as much as others did, so I'd say the build was a success.



I still have only Ahiania and Alrih at level 20, I think I'd rather use both to try out the epics. I didn't do that before.

So … My current alt, Senha, is in my opinion more likely to get TR'd, or Alrih, although i hesitate with Alrih, because she's such a good trapper right now I'd like to try her out as that in the epics and see how far i can get. her weakness is more on the combat / survivability side, though.

Apart from that, Amauna, my iconic sun elf caste-like cleric is at level 17 now. I'm having LOTS of fun with her, and I really want to do all lower level quests wit her. I'm stuill working on the survivbility side, though. It has improved, but she simply lacks strength, as a more or less pure caster. I have taken Falconry there to use WIS for her melee beats.

If needed, I could send her out as a healer into the alts or other groups, but she is more like a caster right now , and less as a healer.

The other one is my highly solo oriented Paladin Anrilkana, also at level 17 now, and yesterday I used hours to get her outfitted for that.
Since she was planned as a solo toon, her weakness is in having 2 levels of rogue, so that I could find and disarm traps. I had to rework her a lot to get Evasion going again (light armor, light shield, but used the suddenly found Pale Green Ioun Stone for her health - and to get her into the 20s, so that i could use my third Sentience Gem (the Dragon is currently being used by Ahiania, and the Kobold by Alrih).

The Pale Green Ioun Stone is imho a nice ting to farm. I forgot its level (Wiki is currently down), but it has +5 % xp and 40 points of health at the same time. It ain't upgradeable, though.
I think it drops somewhere in the early Wheelon quests.



Regarding early level toons, I have currently a level 3 quarterstaff cleric (Shifter) and a few others at level 4 & 5 (among them an iconic scoundrel and a cleric and a FVS).
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July 18th, 2021, 16:01
Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Klubbir didn't die as much as others did, so I'd say the build was a success.
That's nothing more than a testament to the skills of the people in the group that were doing the healing. Very little to do with Klubbir.

You should plan on your toons for the group (main and alt) being TR's. The only realistic way for you to catch up on the power curve is to start stacking up some past lives to go with the gear we've been funneling your way. Up to you which toons they are. I'd probably look at single class builds, too. Nothing exotic, but more survivable.
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July 18th, 2021, 23:10
I think I will take my level 30 paladin and ETR to 20 and then racial TR to level 1 and be a paladin again. Having a melee toon in a group will be good I think.
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July 18th, 2021, 23:30
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
That's nothing more than a testament to the skills of the people in the group that were doing the healing. Very little to do with Klubbir.

You should plan on your toons for the group (main and alt) being TR's. The only realistic way for you to catch up on the power curve is to start stacking up some past lives to go with the gear we've been funneling your way. Up to you which toons they are. I'd probably look at single class builds, too. Nothing exotic, but more survivable.
There's still a lot that a Barbarian or other fighter-type can do to be more survivable. Barbarians have the T5 self-heals at L12, healing amp, PRR/MRR, and boosting HP and saving throws make a huge difference. Remember the no-Healer's Friend WF Peter ran that time that soaked up JM's healing on her FvS. IIRC, Mirys' Barbarian life, she basically never needed healing after 12 because of the self-heals in one of the trees.

Originally Posted by Alrik Fassbauer View Post
Klubbir didn't die as much as others did, so I'd say the build was a success.

I still have only Ahiania and Alrih at level 20, I think I'd rather use both to try out the epics. I didn't do that before.

So ‚€¶ My current alt, Senha, is in my opinion more likely to get TR'd, or Alrih, although i hesitate with Alrih, because she's such a good trapper right now I'd like to try her out as that in the epics and see how far i can get. her weakness is more on the combat / survivability side, though.

Apart from that, Amauna, my iconic sun elf caste-like cleric is at level 17 now. I'm having LOTS of fun with her, and I really want to do all lower level quests wit her. I'm stuill working on the survivbility side, though. It has improved, but she simply lacks strength, as a more or less pure caster. I have taken Falconry there to use WIS for her melee beats.

If needed, I could send her out as a healer into the alts or other groups, but she is more like a caster right now , and less as a healer.

The other one is my highly solo oriented Paladin Anrilkana, also at level 17 now, and yesterday I used hours to get her outfitted for that.
Since she was planned as a solo toon, her weakness is in having 2 levels of rogue, so that I could find and disarm traps. I had to rework her a lot to get Evasion going again (light armor, light shield, but used the suddenly found Pale Green Ioun Stone for her health - and to get her into the 20s, so that i could use my third Sentience Gem (the Dragon is currently being used by Ahiania, and the Kobold by Alrih).

The Pale Green Ioun Stone is imho a nice ting to farm. I forgot its level (Wiki is currently down), but it has +5 % xp and 40 points of health at the same time. It ain't upgradeable, though.
I think it drops somewhere in the early Wheelon quests.

Regarding early level toons, I have currently a level 3 quarterstaff cleric (Shifter) and a few others at level 4 & 5 (among them an iconic scoundrel and a cleric and a FVS).
Iconics have to be level 30 to do a TR, and need a specific heart, which costs the same Heart Seeds as an Epic TR. So any iconics you have will probably not be close to being used for a TR any time soon.

DDO really rewards focused builds more than hybrids. For example my Sorcerer Mureall has everything thrown into Evocation. That's because at higher levels, you pretty much need every single point of Evocation DC you can scrounge up to land spells reliably. Especially in some of the newer content, where everything and it's pet goat has evasion. Splitting that even for highly useful Enchantment spells would result in me being weaker overall.

Clerics built for casting aren't going to be able to be remotely effective at melee, even with a decent weapon. They simply can't split the focus enough, even with Falconry, to be useful. It's generally going to be Evocation-focused nuker, or Necro-focused or melee. Healing is the only thing that you don't really need to sacrifice; all you need is to slot the best devotion you can, and pay attention to the health bars of your party to heal. It comes down to player skill as a healer, not really build, at least for a Cleric or Favored Soul. Druids and Bards can heal, but need a bit more work since they lack the heavy hitting heals of the divine spell list. I've solo-healed raids on all four before, while offensively casting or fighting.

That's not to say a Cleric can't be built to fight; I've done a life or to of a pointy-stick focused Favored Soul and Cleric before. I had to devote the build to it however. Splitting it between casting and fighting would result in poor melee dps and spells that never land.

Hybrid builds work fine in normal content, but Elite and even some Hard stuff and they start to show their weaknesses quickly. Just an effect on the stat inflation of the game. It's been like that since I've been playing; so 11 or so years. There's only two things you don't have to "build" for, and that's healing on a Cleric/FvS, or trapping on a Rogue/Artificer. Healing just requires player skill, and trapping requires putting points into character skills, and having the gear to handle traps.

Most of us can help you with a build if you want, and CM and Peter have churned through so many lives that they know more than most.

Originally Posted by Peter Stauffenberg View Post
I think I will take my level 30 paladin and ETR to 20 and then racial TR to level 1 and be a paladin again. Having a melee toon in a group will be good I think.
Looks like we're going to have a front line for the first time in a long time then, with both of us going for melee characters. It might be interesting to try a "traditional" party makeup, with a front line, caster, healer, and support. Probably should have two trappers in case one of the ones is out.

My typical Might and Magic 2-5 party is Paladin, Barbarian, Archer, Ninja, Cleric, Sorcerer. No real DDO equivalent to the Archer and Ninja, so Bard and Artificer could slip in the mid-rank instead, providing the support and more dps.

Peter - Paladin
Azrael - Melee Build of Unknown Providence
CM - Unknown
JM - Setting Fire to Peter
Corwin - Soulstone
Alrik - Unknown
Dte - Lost in Space
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July 18th, 2021, 23:47
Originally Posted by azraelck View Post
Dte - Lost in Space
Likely east-central Illinois…far worse than space.
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July 18th, 2021, 23:57
I basically used almost all of my tokens last TR, so we will definitely need to do some token runs at least for me.
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July 19th, 2021, 14:51
Originally Posted by dteowner View Post
That's nothing more than a testament to the skills of the people in the group that were doing the healing. Very little to do with Klubbir.

You should plan on your toons for the group (main and alt) being TR's. The only realistic way for you to catch up on the power curve is to start stacking up some past lives to go with the gear we've been funneling your way. Up to you which toons they are. I'd probably look at single class builds, too. Nothing exotic, but more survivable.
Bany is definitively planned for a TR as a pure caster.
The others … I could very well TR Senha as well.
As casters, I'll try out different elements than fire.

However, I still want a few toons for soloing as well.

Regarding the name … Long ago I once read that in the Spanish language an "h" in the middle of a word would be pronounced as a "y" … but that's so long ago I'm not even sure whether I understood that right or wrong … But because of that, I pronounce the name rather as "Senya" than of "Senha", but I'll leave that up to you.


As a side-note, I got into the arrival area of the Restless Islands for the very first time yesterday. I've never been there before.
And getting theough Hidden In Plain Sight was a nightmare. I mean, for my level 10 wizard (guildless) it was extremely difficult, even with a Cleric hireling.
This quest should imho *definitively*give more xp for that hardship at level !
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July 19th, 2021, 15:52
We should definitely do the Restless Isles at some point. I think most of the guild even paid DDO points for it, back before we mostly all went VIP. I've only gone through it once, with Mirys, long ago.

Hidden in Plain Sight is definitely a decently hard quest if you don't know it, and has quite a few difficult parts even if you do. It's not The Pit though.
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July 19th, 2021, 20:42
It's not The Pit, definitively. I did that a few times … looooong ago, I think even with a group once or twice. My Muckbane is one of my most prized items from that era.



I've got another question : How viable is a pure archer build these days ? My archer, Alrikadaram is … mothballed, shelved, because I don't have much confidence in that anymore. I remember kiting … and I haven't got this as being fun in my memory, even although I do know it is necessary.

Has anything changed ? Are there any builds for pure archers you could recommend ?
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July 19th, 2021, 23:24
You asking for solo or for grouping? Solo archers can be solid (a traditional arcane archer works fine) but will still require kiting at times. In a group that can help pull some aggro, archers are pretty powerful now. Take a ranger and focus on the arcane archer and deep woods sniper trees and you should be fine.
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July 20th, 2021, 19:51
I'll point out that Horizon Walker is an Archer tree that is coming out in U50 (which will probably be dropping soon). So the bow builds are going to change, though I don't know enough to know how. I do know it has a T5 critical enhancement, and more importantly, Wings. Fly baby, fly.

They do tend to start off very VERY slow, from my earlier experience. Until L12, it's a drag, and if you're doing something weird like a FvS AA then it's worse. An Arcane Archer with good Wisdom that can land Paralyzing arrows consistently is very valuable in a group though, as CM and JM proved in some of our earlier guild groups. Low damage, but basically everything was frozen except for bosses.
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