DA:O About Companions Psychology (SPOILERS ALERT)

I opened this thread to continue this thread without spoil tags:
http://www.rpgwatch.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1060990150&postcount=28
(this is a post link you have its thread link at top right).

To make it clear I think DAO has many little (or less little) flaws but overall that's one my top favorite CRPG. For example my top 5 could be, Gothic 2 + NOTR, Fallout 1, Dragon Age: Origins, Ultima Underworld, The Witcher…

RivianWitch said:

Hmm, perhaps this all made more sense to me, because I'd played through most of the origins, including the "mage" origin, so I have a bit of background on the Mages' politics….

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Now I have play all the game and did some companions quests, I agree that have a more global point of view make less weird Companions Psychology.

But I still consider there are many approximative points in their psychology writing and that it's not a good idea to let feel at some point of the story that some characters have erratic behaviors and even the erratic point get no explanation. And provide explanation only much later.

RivianWitch said:

…In fact- since she is herself a mage who was never made a part of the Circle (through no fault of her own, actually - remember she was raised by Flemeth, who isolated her), and because of this, she is theoretically a "wanted" person, and if she is found out to be a mage not belonging to the Circle, she would be instantly killed by the Templars. How does not liking this situation and this setup make her "evil"?

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For this particular point it's not about liking the situation, it's about hate mages of the tower. Is Wynne or the mage tower children worth suffer her hate or it's more the institution that should hate Morrigan? For me it's an important weird point you need develop to make it credible and the whole story doesn't provide much. Her childhood in the woods and few fun with a small Chantry cannot explain this hate for people above the institution.

But now I have a more large point of view, here is the key I see for Morrigan, she has very few empathy and a huge appetite for power. It's all along in the game and this generate many weird reactions where she is ready to anything to get more power. One symbolic part was when she shows she was ready to kill many innocent people (a bunch of elf slaves) for getting more power…. no for you get more power. This key point itself is weird.

Such character would care do it for get power for himself not for a sex partner she knows she will leave soon.

In a way she shows empathy, to you, and no empathy, to elves lives. Wrong for me, lack of physiological coherency.

The Morrigan affair is rather complicated, from a global perspective the whole was a deliberate plan from the beginning:

• Manipulate you to be able to influence you for the final decision.
• Get your sympathy, if possible your love to have control on you.
• In any way be pregnant to use the fetus to make an experiment with and uncertain and possibly very dangerous result.
• Have sex with you to be pregnant and be able make an experiment with the resulting fetus.
• Be ready of doing a very weird experiment with totally uncertain and unclear result, for the possibility to get more power.
• Quote that she mention that all this was a Flemeth plan from the beginning and all the Flemeth affair have most chance to only be a manipulation to get you sympathy.

On the light of this you can explain many of the Morrigan weird behaviors during the story, but for me few points lack of coherency:
She is presented as very smart and people manipulating. But many times she show her weird personality as she was acting a fake personality and relationships. Not smart at all, such a smart and manipulating personalty should not do constant mistakes like that.

Moreover that's for me a very bad way to give hints to the player. At least for me it get the reverse effect, just gave me the feeling of a weird psychology (in a way I consider some points are still weird like the point above) through all the story until the last part.

RivianWitch said:

In fact, you as a Grey Warden, are also a wanted person, and meant to be killed on sight by Loghain's people… - does not liking this fact make you "evil"? Will it make you "good", if you went to Loghains' soldiers and turned yourself in for them to kill you?

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Well it's quickly done in a CRPG that a player forget any ethic without realize it and just to get a small handful of stuff. Apart that point, that's not the same, you don't act and kill any guard or be ready kill any because they are part of an institutional organization. You make a distinction with the organization and the members of this organization.

RivianWitch said:

In any case, - like I have said many times over - if you just speak kindly to your people (except Sten- you need to be firm with him), and treat them with kindness and give them gifts, their approval of you will increase to a point where they trust in you enough to accept your decisions.

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I don't agree with this, I have the feeling that the writers didn't gave much of their words for the companion relationships points attribution. I consider writers made some points not that well but overall the quality is much better than for the relationships points attribution certainly made by other people and not controlled fully by the writers.

There's many example like that:

• Wynne learn through Morrigan talk she is a outfit, does nothing and say nothing but if you only ask Morrigan her opinion this generate a war. Weird for me.
• Morrigan not an idiot but not hiding she is an outfit as she is in the Mage Tower, devastated but still with a power in the walls. Weird for me.
• Because we choose a mage to entrer in dreams to try fry a possessed buy, no comment but -10 relationship points with Stern. Weird for me.

I can quote ton like that.

DeepO said:

Well, by the time you meet Wynne in the tower you´re dealing with the Circle situation to get the help of templars, not mages - check your questlog, but it should´ve been clear from the conversation with the templar beforehand.
Her initial objection is well in line with her character - she more-or-less disdains everyone who isn´t able to hold on their own which happens to be the case of Circle mages too...

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I agree that in some way this part match the the global point of view of Morrigan. She has an extreme appetite for power and no care for other lives and she is manipulating people all along.

But for this event it's not clear why not helping the mage tower childs and wynne will gave her any power.

About disdain for any people not able to hold on their own, for me it's not related to this event. She openly reveal her illegal state to a high level mage like Wynne, for me it's a little flew in the writing and doesn't match at all her talent for manipulating people.

DeepO said:

However, not only you can end the meeting with Wynne without fight, you can even persuade Morrigan to have a bit symphathy for them as well and thus loosing no approval points with her in that situation.

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Sure some dialog sequences doesn't highlight the same weakness but the sequence leading to Wynne fighting the group is totally weird.

DeepO said:

I agree that reactions of some companions may be irrational here and there
but why would you expect them to behave rationally all the time? Plus, in such cases you never loose a substantial amount of approval points anyway.

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One example, you enter in dream to help free the possessed boy, -10 points from Stern, just weird for me. Many relationships points reactions are ok but too many are weird and hard to predict and hard to justify.