Quantcast
Top 10 CRPGs of all time - Page 46 - RPGWatch Forums
|
Your donations keep RPGWatch running!
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » Top 10 CRPGs of all time

Default Top 10 CRPGs of all time

April 24th, 2017, 09:15
An interesting PoV there blob, however, from my PoV the only drawback to HotD is the fact that you can't control companions. As far a quality companions go you have a completely different criteria to me as you think IWD is, effectively, only playable with the companions mod, so when you bring combat into the discussion it seems a bit odd that you can only fully appreciate a game once companions are invented, suggesting that you only really have one overriding criteria for your games, companions.

In terms of dungeon design, I found HotU to have better pacing and an overall greater coherence of structure. BG2 spends an awful long time trapped in a big city at the beginning before slowly submerging you into dungeons which, combined with constant respawn random encounters while moving between locations, makes everything a bit more stop-start and disjointed compared to HotU's in at the deep end approach with small hubs and large and distinct multi-layered dungeons. Also, there's plenty of spectacular in the second chapter.

I would say its a case of the two being different enough to gain equal merits from different aspects, depending on what you're in the mood for that day, but I commend your dedicated BG2 fandom knee jerk reaction to take the line "I'd say, aside from BG2 (and possibly including BG2)" and come back with a direct "I have a bit different opinion to lackblogger. BG2 is far more superior in every level" when my opinion was that HotU is not a better game than BG2, but has the credentials to make a case for it/compete for that title.

The main point of the post was not to compete HotU with BG2, but to highlight the fact that lots of people put BGs and other Bioware titles in their Top 10, but HotU remains unplayed by a surprisingly large number of dedicated RPG fansters, when HotU is one of the best games Bioware ever made, one of the best RPGs ever made, as if its some kind of hidden gem oddity instead of a niche must-play landmark. I don't necessarily like some of the great RPG landmarks (such as Ultima 7 or Fallout) but I at least tried them and gave them a fair shot.
lackblogger is offline

lackblogger

lackblogger's Avatar
retired poster
Original Sin 2 Donor

#901

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,048
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)

Default 

April 24th, 2017, 10:02
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
An interesting PoV there blob, however, from my PoV the only drawback to HotD is the fact that you can't control companions. As far a quality companions go you have a completely different criteria to me as you think IWD is, effectively, only playable with the companions mod, so when you bring combat into the discussion it seems a bit odd that you can only fully appreciate a game once companions are invented, suggesting that you only really have one overriding criteria for your games, companions.
Interesting observation there. I certainly value NPC/companion interactions a lot, but that is not the only thing I judge games on - if I did, I should rate Bioware games above all else as they are the only ones working on such games.

In terms of dungeon design, I found HotU to have better pacing and an overall greater coherence of structure. BG2 spends an awful long time trapped in a big city at the beginning before slowly submerging you into dungeons which, combined with constant respawn random encounters while moving between locations, makes everything a bit more stop-start and disjointed compared to HotU's in at the deep end approach with small hubs and large and distinct multi-layered dungeons. Also, there's plenty of spectacular in the second chapter.
I find it amusing that you think you are "trapped" in Athkatla. You can leave whenever as soon as you save up enough money for Shadow Thief or vampire. Should I remind you that Undermountain works like a sort of "trap" for Halaster's amusement - and yet you don't feel trapped there?

I would say its a case of the two being different enough to gain equal merits from different aspects, depending on what you're in the mood for that day, but I commend your dedicated BG2 fandom knee jerk reaction to take the line "I'd say, aside from BG2 (and possibly including BG2)" and come back with a direct "I have a bit different opinion to lackblogger. BG2 is far more superior in every level" when my opinion was that HotU is not a better game than BG2, but has the credentials to make a case for it/compete for that title.
Judging by your quick insult, you really don't have much argument. Just because I love BG2 doesn't mean I don't acknowledge it's weakness. It just simply is superior than HotU in my opinion. Both features rather crowded section of Underdark, full of creepy creatures packed into small space but BG2 Underdark fleshed out cities and cultures of drows, mind flayers and few other species better than HotU.

And I don't see you explaining why HotU is perhaps better than BG2, all you did is showing your "HotU fandom knee jerk reaction"

The main point of the post was not to compete HotU with BG2, but to highlight the fact that lots of people put BGs and other Bioware titles in their Top 10, but HotU remains unplayed by a surprisingly large number of dedicated RPG fansters, when HotU is one of the best games Bioware ever made, one of the best RPGs ever made, as if its some kind of hidden gem oddity instead of a niche must-play landmark. I don't necessarily like some of the great RPG landmarks (such as Ultima 7 or Fallout) but I at least tried them and gave them a fair shot.
I did say HotU was definitely worthwhile playing while you viewed my post as "dissing" HotU or your fan jerking. I love HotU, it fact, if you've read my top 10 list, it's in my honourable mention list. Only reason I posted my opinion is because you make it sound like HotU is the best RPG out there and since bizorker listed BG2 as #1 RPG, I just wanted to give a fair comparison by providing my opinion.
--
Favourite RPGs: Baldur's Gate II, Icewind Dale I, The Aielund Saga, Stardew Valley
purpleblob is offline

purpleblob

purpleblob's Avatar
Princess

#902

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,979
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)

Default 

April 24th, 2017, 11:16
Originally Posted by purpleblob View Post
It just simply is superior than HotU in my opinion.
Which was what I said…
lackblogger is offline

lackblogger

lackblogger's Avatar
retired poster
Original Sin 2 Donor

#903

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,048
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)

Default 

April 24th, 2017, 11:18
Yes, with massive butt hurt and insults hurled in there. I don't see what is the issue, I'm simply presenting my opinion. You are trying to promote HotU and I'm agreeing with you, just not as good as BG2 IMO.
--
Favourite RPGs: Baldur's Gate II, Icewind Dale I, The Aielund Saga, Stardew Valley
purpleblob is offline

purpleblob

purpleblob's Avatar
Princess

#904

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,979
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)

Default 

April 24th, 2017, 11:20
There really weren't any insults or butthurt.
lackblogger is offline

lackblogger

lackblogger's Avatar
retired poster
Original Sin 2 Donor

#905

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,048
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)

Default 

April 24th, 2017, 11:20
If you say so. I will just let others get back on to the topic.
--
Favourite RPGs: Baldur's Gate II, Icewind Dale I, The Aielund Saga, Stardew Valley
purpleblob is offline

purpleblob

purpleblob's Avatar
Princess

#906

Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Sydney
Posts: 1,979
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)

Default 

April 24th, 2017, 11:22
I thought we were on topic?
lackblogger is offline

lackblogger

lackblogger's Avatar
retired poster
Original Sin 2 Donor

#907

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 2,048
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)

Default 

April 24th, 2017, 15:02
Back on topic … I totally love playing an incredibly overpowered sorcerer in HotU … walking around like I have a massive artillary barrage at my fingertips - because I did. It was insane the destruction! Speaking of which … just reinstalled NWN Diamond and will likely jump back into HotU again!
--
-- Mike
txa1265 is offline

txa1265

txa1265's Avatar
SasqWatch
Moderator

#908

Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Corning, NY USA
Posts: 13,829
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)

Default 

May 2nd, 2017, 22:19
Originally Posted by lackblogger View Post
The main point of the post was not to compete HotU with BG2, but to highlight the fact that lots of people put BGs and other Bioware titles in their Top 10, but HotU remains unplayed by a surprisingly large number of dedicated RPG fansters, when HotU is one of the best games Bioware ever made, one of the best RPGs ever made, as if its some kind of hidden gem oddity instead of a niche must-play landmark.
Thanks for the info on HotU. The likely reason I never made it to the Neverwinter Nights expansions is the single character aspect that you guys discuss here. But your enthusiasm has me intrigued, and so I think I will give it a go.
bizorker is offline

bizorker

Watcher
Original Sin 2 Donor

#909

Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

May 2nd, 2017, 23:35
I loved Hordes of the Underdark! You get to visit other worlds, like Kenia (one of hells)… Or maybe not Kenia, but Cania? I'm bad with names And you meet beholders and the Drow, and the companions are really interesting.

The only downside is if you play a wizard, the final boss is immune to magic. It was a pretty lame fight in my case, the companion did all the killing, while my wizardess kept hurling melf's acid arrow with its meager damage… she had nothing else that could work! That wasn't epic at all.

For some reason the previous expansion was mean to wizards, too. SoU. Sands of…? Whatever, I don't remeber its title, as I said, I'm bad with names In THAT final fight you had to waste a lot of spells to fight a group of really tough enemies, and then when you faced the boss you were completely helpless… spell-less. And there was no way to rest. I swear Bioware never tested the game with wizards! The fight is in very close quarters, so if you're a wizard you're toast. And you can't bring companions to the final fight. I only defeated the boss with the help of one glitch in that location.

P.S. But otherwise playing as a wizard was a blast! The only game apart from Mask of Betrayer that had epic levels of sorcery. And it was much longer.
Elel is offline

Elel

Elel's Avatar
Devout Priestess of RPGs

#910

Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Russia
Posts: 558
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)

Default 

May 2nd, 2017, 23:58
I'm now unable to compare RPG from very different periods, so I truncated in 4 periods with a small list for each.

Top 5 - 80's to Pre Fallout 1:
This first era is because there's been a big jump in modern games through Fallout 1 closely followed by Baldur's Gate 1. This era is mainly based on very old memories of plays, with only very few exceptions mainly played during middle of 00's.

1. Ultima 7 (despite I have to admit I never finished it, and alas it is close to unplayable now even with Exult, because they couldn't fix the jerky aspect totally unbearable now. Either you play it at a too fast speed making combats even more a crap, either it is awfully jerky because it was its original design)
2. Pool of Radiance (alas close to unplayable now because of lack of automap and absurd controls. Mac version should be much more playable alas emulation of old Mac is a nightmare)
3. Ultima Underworld 1 (2 is probably a better candidate but I never played it. Alas one more unplayable, this time just because of the awful experimental combat controls)
4. Land of Lore 1 (still quite playable nowadays)
5. Dungeon Master 1 (For pure gameplay quality it is more top 1, but it has to pay the price of being also quite a dungeon crawler, when UU1 is much more than a DC. Original version will be hardly playable now and for most players because of lack of automap. The game is designed for manual mapping, but now players aren't designed for manual mapping. There's a Java version which has also an automap, never played it but it's probably the best bet to play it now).

Honorable mentions:
Full Pool of Radiance series, Eye of the Beholder, Wizardry 6&7, Might & Magic III-V, Betrayal at Krondor, Albion, Citadel Adventure of the Crystal Keep, Chaos Strikes Back.

Top 5 - Post Fallout 1 to Pre the Witcher 1:
This is an era where 3D games are now very dated but are still quite playable. It's both unfair for modern games and unfair for games of this era. In that era 3D could be much more simple models, wide areas with not much 3D details. All of this was looking very good anyway in context of the era, and it was allowing to create much more area, much wider areas for a same price and development time. This is a huge bonus with the price of graphics that are now awful. I just refuse compare with more modern games because of that. I also separated this era because sadly, I haven't succeed replay fully a game of this era since a long time, and that includes remakes of BG1&2 that I perhaps played too much in past.

1. Fallout 1 (I don't like FO2 writing I feel it targets too much teens)
2. Gothic 2 Gold
3. Baldur's Gate 2 Enhanced Edition (My heart is more on BG1 side, but the blueprint and the heart doesn't make all, and BG2 is quite superior on too many aspects).
4. RealmZ Sword Lands trilogy (3 RealmZ scenario, alas hardly playable now because of the weird controls, we almost got a faithful remake of game and all scenario) but some stupid failure in managing clearly the rights made it fail)
5. Baldur's Gate 1 Enhanced Edition

Honorable mentions:
Gothic 1, Deus Ex, Morrowind, System Shock 2, KOTOR 1, Nevewinter Nights 1 with best mods and extensions, Wizardry 8, Planescape Torment (could change and come in list now because I finally succeed get past first parts, and plan make a full play with EE), Divine Divinity, Vampire: The Masquerade Bloodlines, Arcanum (really honorific for ambition and design ideas, not for my love of it).

Top 5 - Post the Witcher 1 to Pre Shadowrun Returns:
The Witcher 1 marks the coming of modern writing and the coming of 3D graphics quality that for my eyes don't get old. It's not a clean limit because same year and after Mass Effect 1 was released with graphics dated at release and with a style matching more previous era. But overall it's a new period for 3D graphics and writing (with positive and negative effects).

1. The Witcher 1
2. Mask of the Betrayer (small Neverwinter Nights 2 extension, but a punch in the stomach)
3. Dragon Age Origin
4. Drakensang: The River of Time
5. Legend of Grimrock (it pays the price of being just a Dungeon Crawler, otherwise it's a gameplay design masterpiece)

Honorable mentions:
Mass Effect 2&3, Skyrim, Deus Ex Human Revolution, Fallout 3, STALKER 1, Fallout: New Vegas, Divinity II.

Top 5 - Post Shadowrun Returns to end of 2016, too fresh past that:
This era is starting with coming of RPG from crowd funding and influences of crowd funding RPG on the industry including indies. The real first noteworthy RPG coming from crowd funding was in reality Expeditions Conquistador. But it was very unnoticed at release and in my opinion not really marking even if with very interesting aspects. That's why I choose mention Shadowrun Returns.

I should be able compare more or less well last two eras, but the problem is last era is too fresh and targets often sub genre that vanished despite I was expecting them since many years. So such list mixing two last eras tends to overwhelm RPG of 3rd era by those of 4rth era, and it's rather weird.

1. Shadowrun Dragonfall Director's Cut
2. Wasteland 2 Director's Cut (and no way the vanilla)
3. Tyranny (four plays in a row, all time record for RPG)
4. Divinity Original Sin Classic (failed play the Enhanced Edition, didn't like some changes. But if I succeed replay it through this EE, I'll probably replace Classic by EE because of the efforts on improving the design of each combat. If you wonder why not higher, it's mainly because of writing and uneven overall quality design of each combats)
5. The Witcher 3 (haven't finished it yet, it pays the price of being a sub genre I was tired of since few years, fantasy action combat of non party RPG, too late release for that sub genre and for me)

Honorable mentions:
Underrail (would be 1 or 2 without the failure of last parts), Legend of Grimrock II (too late, too long, too tricky for me, impressive and looks like a masterpiece but I still haven't succeed finish it from far), Blackguards 2 (best final ever, unique bizarre but great story telling), Dragon Age Inquisition (my choice, it doesn't mean I don't see the flaws, but it also mean I see the good and found how manage myself the gameplay to make it much better), Might & Magic X Legacy, Pillars of Eternity, Eschalon Book III, Avadon 1, Age of Decadence (really honorific for ambition and design ideas, not for my love of it).
Last edited by Dasale; May 3rd, 2017 at 01:24.
Dasale is offline

Dasale

SasqWatch

#911

Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 2,582
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)

Default 

May 3rd, 2017, 00:19
Someday I'll have to compile my own list, but considering how well you guys flesh out the reasons as to why certain games belong on your list, i feel obliged to do the same. That means I'll actually have to take the time to think it through properly, and thinking hurts.

I'll just keep on reading yours. This thread is great, kudos to all of you for sharing.
TomRon is offline

TomRon

TomRon's Avatar
SasqWatch
Original Sin Donor

#912

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Sweden
Posts: 1,873
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)

Tags
crpg, top 10
RPGWatch Forums » Games » General RPG » Top 10 CRPGs of all time
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

All times are GMT +2. The time now is 19:08.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright by RPGWatch