zahratustra
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So you are saying that their games are still great and it's all a question of perception?
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Dragon Age 2 - 8 Reasons Why It's Good
- Thread starter Couchpotato
- Start date
BG2 was actually written by those homeless people living in the stairwell. That's why it was so much better than most of the stuff Bioware's put out since then. 
D
DArtagnan
Guest
BG2 was actually written by those homeless people living in the stairwell. That's why it was so much better than most of the stuff Bioware's put out since then.
Someone should check that stairwell to see if they're still there. I'd personally give them a hot meal each day if they replaced the current Bioware writing staff
Great is a relative term, and obviously depends on how you are measuring it. In this case lets just say it's because the masses are giving BG2 the highest ratings compared to all of Bioware's other offerings. Regardless, even by using the words average to decent, you're accepting that the games are not crap or garbage or whatever exaggerated words that get thrown out there. I could even argue that based on your own preferences, of NWN and KOTOR, that you prefer streamlined games, as those games were more streamlined than DA:O, not including extra fan made content of course (for the record, I personally liked NWN and KOTOR better than BG2 too). And what's with the "fantasy" and "delusional" comments? You remind me of Jeff Albertson.
ChienAboyeur
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If that is the issue, I am sure that publicity, a marketing plan and they are sponsored in getting homeless people living somewhere near their current office.
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D
DArtagnan
Guest
I don't confuse my own position with objective truth.
Yes, I think the games in question are average to decent, but that doesn't mean other people can't consider them crap or garbage. You don't have to know a whole lot about how preferences can differ to appreciate that there's really no truth when it comes to how great games are.
NWN and KotOR were indeed streamlined - and they sort of hit the right balance between complexity and playability, from where I'm sitting. I'm not too happy about the combat system in KotOR, but nothing's perfect.
To me, NWN was a masterpiece because of the work they did with multiplayer and the amazingly powerful editor.
KotOR was a brilliant hybrid between a reasonably complex RPG and a fantastic Star Wars experience. Contrasted with the prequel movies which were coming out around the same time, it was such a breath of fresh air.
It's ludicrous to suggest you "know what's going on" - if you really believe there's some kind of level these games can't fall below to people who don't share your point of view.
I don't know this Jeff Albertson. Is he the only other person in the world you know that uses those two words?
Falchor
Sentinel
If the question is streamlining, then it is absolutely true that Bioware has made strides (during and after the EA acquisition) to provide story paths that as many players as possible would see. If you choose to leave out the subjective notion that the writing is not as good, the doctors are quoted as saying that they did not like the cost in zots it took to generate tons of content that many players will never see. I don't have the exact quotes handy, but that is pretty good paraphrase of what they said.
So, because of their desire to no longer create games that offered true choice and that played differently each time you played them because you saw and interacted with different aspects of the game, we have games that are much more cinematic, AAA but lack the variety and breadth of experience of the earlier games. And "that" is what members of the Bioware old guard (like myself) miss the most.
Thankfully, D:OS and some other current games seem to be filling the gap, so I'm actually quite content with Bioware going off and continuing to make cinematic movie-games, like they have been.
Their office in Edmonton had back door stairwell access with no lock on it. It was desirable to them in -40 weather because it was heated.
Carnifex
SasqWatch
Only minus 25 in Edmonton today, so quite balmy here. I think the sun is scheduled to make an appearance soon.
Is it windy there too? At work I walked out today and thought "hey this isn't so bad, I don't need a toque..." then the wind gusts came when I was halfway to another building. Blah.
He's the person you just googled.
Carnifex
SasqWatch
Getting gusts up to 40kph, so ya, best to dress in layers today. That wind can be bracing.
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I hate that kind of "web design" as well. Its just not worth of my time.
Instant turn off for me.
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That's one example. There are plenty of indie games that are judged less harshly because they don't have the same funds/resources as a AAA studio. The Binding of Isaac is a good indie game but there's plenty to criticize, which I won't go into. Terraria, Minecraft, Space Engineers, Don't Starve, etc, etc, etc. Good games but they could easily be heavily critiqued. DA2 is judged as a AAA game based on the amount of developers, resources, and the price tag, so judged as a AAA game it barely, if that, feels like a "good" game. Again if it were viewed as an indie game with an indie game price tag my opinion of the game would be a lot higher.
I think it's common sense that most (keyword "most") indie games are not judged as harshly as AAA games.
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lackblogger
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While it's an interesting philosophical perspective, it's a complete unreality, because if by some twist of reality DA2 was a game released by an indy then we have no idea how people would react because it didn't happen, so you're free to make up any imagined response you like, what with the whole concept being a fiction.
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I understand what Sidion is saying, and I agree with him. Indie games are judged differently than AAA games by a lot of people, and I suppose it's sometimes justified when you take the amount of money and labor into account.
A lot of people don't think it's fair to use the same standards for a game that was made by 4-5 people on a 50k budget compared to something that had a 40+ person development team and a Million+ budget.
A lot of people don't think it's fair to use the same standards for a game that was made by 4-5 people on a 50k budget compared to something that had a 40+ person development team and a Million+ budget.
lackblogger
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That has nothing to do with the game though, that's a sense of charity. That's giving additional points for a prospective future of better games to come. So you're judging potential into the mix.
When you're judging a AAA title, charity isn't on the table. And yes, I know the philosophy of what they're saying, but people do bash small independent games and very few people play them relative to AAA games. So my answer to his point would be: if it was an indy game hardly anyone would have played it and some people would bleat on about how good it is every now and then to an essentially uncaring audience - which is how DA2 is treated anyway...
When you're judging a AAA title, charity isn't on the table. And yes, I know the philosophy of what they're saying, but people do bash small independent games and very few people play them relative to AAA games. So my answer to his point would be: if it was an indy game hardly anyone would have played it and some people would bleat on about how good it is every now and then to an essentially uncaring audience - which is how DA2 is treated anyway...
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He totally googled him...
Right. So the reaction to DA2 would have been the exact same if it had been put out by a small indie dev rather than Bioware?
If you say so.