New hard evidence of female Scandinavian warriors

Its a funny kind of paradox.
Fanatics decry the male role as protectionist and borderline evil for the protective nature they have. Demanding the right to not "suffer" under the bondage of the ideal of protectionism.

Yet on the flipside expect the magic government to protect them from everything.
 
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Such a cliché. I don't think I've ever come across someone who said "O, I don't think I'll do that, because this was the outcome for xxx in yyy", or "Let us take these xxx steps now, otherwise we'll end up like yyy in zzz".

History never repeats itself exactly. And because the present always differs from the past people think the/their present will have a different outcome.

Yes, we tend to think in a binary kind of way. A good solution and a bad solution. But there are countless bad and good solutions so changing some parameters doesn't guarantee success or failure.
 
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Such a cliché. I don't think I've ever come across someone who said "O, I don't think I'll do that, because this was the outcome for xxx in yyy", or "Let us take these xxx steps now, otherwise we'll end up like yyy in zzz".

History never repeats itself exactly. And because the present always differs from the past people think the/their present will have a different outcome.

But yeah, when present tendencies are discussed history is often set as an example and (mis)used to put some weight in the political arguments.

History is good for science, and to learn what good and awful things homo sapiens is capable of.
So yeah, women can and will fight just like men. Duh. And some societies were smart enough to acknowledge that and rewarded them for it by giving them important positions.

Let's keep the topic to humans and not bring birds into the picture.

Also I'm not sure what jacob's syndrome or trisomy X have to do with anything.
 
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I don't get why this awesome thread was derailed into this mindless bs about modern society and gender roles. Why can't we just enjoy the idea of badass shieldmadens.

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939a033d96134ccd188aa26a508da76c--warrior--viking-warrior.jpg
 
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https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Shield_Maiden_(5e_Class)

Shield Maiden

The Shield Maiden, a rare, brave and fascinating woman, with the courage of a man who chooses to accompany men, fighting in front among the bravest, or charge alone, into battle with shield, sword, and spear as a warrior woman.


Creating a Shield Maiden

Quick Build

You can make a Shield Maiden quickly by following these suggestions. First, strength should be your highest ability score, followed by constitution. Second choose the outlander background.
Class Features

As a Shield Maiden you gain the following class features.

Hit Points

Hit Dice: 1d10 per Shield Maiden level
Hit Points at 1st Level: 10 + Constitution modifier
Hit Points at Higher Levels: 1d10 (or 6) + Constitution modifier per Shield Maiden level after 1st

Proficiencies

Armor: light armor, medium armor, and shields
Weapons: longswords, spears and daggers
Tools: none
Saving Throws: strength, constitution, and charisma
Skills: Choose 1:Athletics, Acrobatics, or Intimidation

Equipment

You start with the following equipment, in addition to the equipment granted by your background:

(a) Long Sword or (b) Simple weapon
(a) Studded Leather Armor and Light Shield or (b) Scale Mail
(a) An explorer's pack or (b) A dungeoneer's pack
(a) leather belt or (b) bag containing 35gp

Table: The Shield Maiden

Level Proficiency
Bonus Features Grace of the God's
1st +2 Shield Bash 0
2nd +2 Spirit Animal 0
3rd +2 Valkarie's Shield, Grace of the God's 3
4th +2 Ability Score Improvement, Shield Bash 3
5th +3 Extra Attack, Grace of the God's feature 3
6th +3 Maiden's Second Chance 3
7th +3 Shield Wall, Grace of the God's feature 4
8th +3 Ability Score Improvement, Shield Bash 4
9th +4 Helping Hand, Grace of the God's feature 4
10th +4 Maiden's Charm 4
11th +4 Helping Hand Upgrade, Grace of the God's feature 6
12th +4 Ability Score Improvement 6
13th +5 Unbreakable Armor 6
14th +5 Vikings Rage, Grace of the God's feature 6
15th +5 Extra Attack 8
16th +5 Ability Score Improvement 8
17th +6 Survivor 8
18th +6 Vahala's Reach, Grace of the God's feature 8
19th +6 Ability Score Improvement 12
20th +6 Sindri and Brokkr's Gift 20
Shield Maiden's Features and Abilities
Shield Bash

At 1st level because of her proficiencies with her shield, the Maiden has the ability to not only use her shield for defense but also may use is as a weapon, as an extra attack from a distance of up to 15 feet, she can bash her shield into an attacker causing 1d6 of damage, at the 4th level 2d6, and at the 8th level 3d6.
Spirit Animal

At level 2 the Maiden gains an animal companion that accompanies you on your adventures that she has trained to fight along side her. The animal will obey your commands as best as an animal can. It takes its turns on your initiative, but it doesn't take an action unless you command it to. On your turn, you can verbally command your spirit animal where to move (this requires no action by you). You can use your action to verbally command it to take the Attack, Dash, Disengage, Dodge, or Help Action. Once the Shield Maiden has gained her Extra Attack feature, she can make one weapon attack herself when she commands her spirit animal to take the Attack action. If the Shield Maiden becomes absent or incapacitated, her spirit animal will act on its own, focusing its efforts on protecting you and itself. The spirit animal does not require the Shield Maidens command to use its reaction, such as when making an opportunity attack. If her spirit animal dies, the Shield Maiden can obtain a new spirit animal by spending 8 hours bonding with an animal that isnt hostile towards her and is in the list of spirit animals. To determine your spirit animal you must roll 1d4. The abilities and statistics of theses spirit animals can be found in the Appendix D of the Players Handbook 5e (Starting on page 304).

1=Panther

2=Dire Wolf

3=Giant Eagle

4=Young Metallic Dragon
Valkarie's Shield

At level 3, opponents have to make a successful strength check equal to or greater then the maiden's AC, otherwise it is an automatic miss even upon a successful attack. Upon a failed check, the attack is deflected.
Grace of the God's

At the third level, the Shield Maiden has proven herself to be a fierce warrior and worthy of Grace of the God's. The Shield Maiden may choose to receive Grace of the God's as a bonus action. She will receive temporary hit points equal to player level + constitution modifier. She gets 5 points to strength and your Shield Bash damage is doubled. The Grace of the God's may end early if you are knocked unconscious or you choose to end early as your bonus action.
Ability Score Increase

When you reach 4th level, and again at 8th, 12th, 16th and 19th level, you can increase one ability score of your choice by 2, or you can increase two ability scores of your choice by 1. As normal, you can't increase an ability score above 20 using this feature.
Extra Attack

Beginning at the 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
Maiden's 2nd Chance

At level 6, after rolling your attack, when you hit, if you roll a 1 or a 2, you get to re roll, but if you roll a 1 or 2 again you have to keep it.
Shield Wall

At level 7, using your shield, you can connect your shield to another shield. You gain +5 AC and +5 strength. You must complete a short rest to regain. Lasts for 5 minutes.
Helping Hand

At level 9, as a bonus action, you can dash to an ally. Upon arrival, you will grant both you and your ally 5 HP and 5 AC. This effect lasts for 3 rounds. At level 11 it becomes 10 HP and 10 AC. You may use this twice before you must take a long rest.
Maiden's Charm

At level 9, your Shield Maiden gains the ability to use her charisma to charm any humanoid enemy into being at her command. Attacker would roll a saving throw of 15 or higher. If they save they get an automatic hit against the Maiden for their normal damage.
Unbreakable Armor

At level 13, the Shield Maiden gains a bonus to her AC of + 12.
Vikings Rage

At level 14, the Shield Maiden receives a + 1d4 to every attack.
Survivor

At level 17, at the start of your turn, you regain HP = to 5 + constitution modifier if you have more then half of your HP left.
Vahala's Reach

At level 18, upon dealing a killing strike to your Maiden, the attacker must roll a saving throw of the Maiden's strength or higher, otherwise the attacker will take your place in death. This will temporarily grant you its remaining hit points through the duration of the battle.
Sindri and Brokkr's Gift

At level 20, the dwarf brothers reforge your shield. Making the outside rim razor sharp, and the face of the shield will now be covered with sharp spikes, giving your shield slashing and piercing damage = to 1d12.


Grace of the God's
Hal's Refusal

Upon receiving "Grace of the God's" your Shield Maiden gains the ability to refuse death. When her HP reaches 0, Hal's hands will come up from the underworld and instantly restore you to 10 HP.
Odin's Eye

Starting at level 5, you have proven yourself to Oden. You now receive +10 to strength and charisma. 2 ravens will appear, taking the creatures attack for you. Upon attack the ravens instantly deal 1d6 to the attacker. At level 8 this will increase to 2d6, at level 12 it increases to 3d6.
Freyja's Love

Starting at level 7, while under Grace of the God's, you may charm the creature closest to you,upon doing so the creature must roll a wisdom saving throw VS your DC (8 + con + proficiency bonus) on a failed save the creature closest to you will be charmed and fight for you. But if the creature rolls a successful save, the creature becomes enraged and focuses all of its attacks only on you while you are under Grace of the God's.
Thor's Might

Starting at level 9, while under Grace of the God's, you can no longer use Shield Bash because a lightning bolt comes from the sky striking your weapon, giving you the ability to throw it, having it return to youcausing an additional 1d6 damage to the attacker, at level 11 it will be 2d6 and level 15 will be 3d6. (Extra hit still applies)
Baldur's Radiance

Starting at level 11, while under Grace of the God's, your shield will glow with a blinding light, striking up to 3 attackers within your viewing range, causing blindness for the duration of the Grace of the God's. When doing so, the creatures must roll a saving throw VS your DC (8 + dex + proficiency bonus). Upon successful save, the light will instead strike you, blinding you for 1 round. (when using this as your turn)
Loki's Tricks

At level 14, while under Grace of the God's, when using this as your turn, "The trickster God Loki" will send down 3 conjured animals that will do no damage, but will instead take the creatures attack for you.
Lady Sif's Gateway

At level 18, while under Grace of the God's, The Lady Sif has taken favor of you and your great abilities as a supreme Shield Maiden, she casts down her swords enchanted by Oden, granting you the ability to open passageways between dimensions.
Multiclassing
 
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I am sure most dads want to protect their kids, same with mothers. I dont see how that is a negative trait.
 
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I am sure most dads want to protect their kids, same with mothers. I dont see how that is a negative trait.

Welcome to the world of online pseudosocialism, where any trait, moral, ideal, or action can be vilified! Yay for armchair philosophy and no action!
 
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If I understood Dart's post correctly, it is about the fact that we as a society still have an apparent need for men to protect women and children. As a society we should have grown pasts that and reached a point where this protection is not needed and therefor also not desired.
At least that is how I interpreted it and is also something I agree with. Unfortunately we are also far, far away from such a society.
 
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If I understood Dart's post correctly, it is about the fact that we as a society still have an apparent need for men to protect women and children. As a society we should have grown pasts that and reached a point where this protection is not needed and therefor also not desired.
At least that is how I interpreted it and is also something I agree with. Unfortunately we are also far, far away from such a society.

That is correct :)

My "pseudosocialistic" opinion is that we tend to view the capacity to fight and wage war as something to honor and aspire to.

I know it can be terribly inconvenient when people don't share opinions, but I just happen to think there are abilities that would benefit us all to a much wider degree, and I would love it if people joined in celebrating a different kind of human being - as well as working towards a different kind of world, rather than being stuck on what will ultimately only bring suffering and misery to the world, regardless of best intentions.

Now, you can back to your profound history lessons.
 
If I understood Dart's post correctly, it is about the fact that we as a society still have an apparent need for men to protect women and children. As a society we should have grown pasts that and reached a point where this protection is not needed and therefor also not desired.
At least that is how I interpreted it and is also something I agree with. Unfortunately we are also far, far away from such a society.

I dont see how it is such a bad thing considering current understanding of children's well being although it seems that single fathers make better parents than single mothers for some reason. The fathers is seen currently as the most expendable in a family unit and thus it should always be the father that is the first to give up his life to protect the family. There is literally no way to totally stop outside threats affecting a family, so even if we can stop other humans form killing others by implanting chips in them or something, there are accidents and natural disasters where the father has to protect his family with his life. It's only logical at this point.
 
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That is correct :)

My "pseudosocialistic" opinion is that we tend to view the capacity to fight and wage war as something to honor and aspire to.

I know it can be terribly inconvenient when people don't share opinions, but I just happen to think there are abilities that would benefit us all to a much wider degree, and I would love it if people joined in celebrating a different kind of human being - as well as working towards a different kind of world, rather than being stuck on what will ultimately only bring suffering and misery to the world, regardless of best intentions.

Now, you can back to your profound history lessons.

A father or mother protecting their children has far more application than just fighting and waging war.
 
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A father or mother protecting their children has far more application than just fighting and waging war.

You have utterly failed to understand my point. There is nothing wrong with wanting or being able to protect others.

Again, the problem is that we still need to do so. My claim is that by celebrating our capacity to destroy, we're indirectly supporting destruction.
 
With a vocabulary as vast as yours, one would think you could make your point more clearly :)
I mean if you need Myrthos to interpret, you have clearly dropped the ball.
+1 to interpretation skills Mythros.
 
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With a vocabulary as vast as yours, one would think you could make your point more clearly :)
I mean if you need Myrthos to interpret, you have clearly dropped the ball.
+1 to interpretation skills Mythros.

I don't feel particularly responsible for how others fail to read words and use predisposed fantasies in place of paying attention :)

Myrthos simply bothered to read what I actually said. It's more or less a lost art online, I know.
 
You have utterly failed to understand my point. There is nothing wrong with wanting or being able to protect others.

Again, the problem is that we still need to do so. My claim is that by celebrating our capacity to destroy, we're indirectly supporting destruction.

You missed my point, i recognized your point. I was pointing out how fathers NEEDING to protect their children has meaningful applications outside of war and fighting, like in accidents and natural disasters. Like the father will be the one that runs into the rip in the ocean or a lake to save their children caught in it despite losing their lives and possibly not saving the children at all and still dying. That should always be honored.
 
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You missed my point, i recognized your point. I was pointing out how fathers NEEDING to protect their children has meaningful applications outside of war and fighting, like in accidents and natural disasters. Like the father will be the one that runs into the rip in the ocean or a lake to save their children caught in it despite losing their lives and possibly not saving the children at all and still dying. That should always be honored.

I'm afraid I can't equate the capacity to destroy or wage war with the capacity to act protectively during a natural disaster.

Regardless, I consider the need a very bad thing indeed. I'm not a big fan of natural disasters, sorry.
 
Regardless, I consider the need a very bad thing indeed.

Hes pulling a Chien and refusing to comprehend your point while asking for acceptance of his own at the same time. Sidestepping acknowledgement by strawman distractions such as "not a fan of natural disasters" etc.
Rest assured if Dart has kids he will feel the same protectionist ideal when his kids jump in the street in front of a car. I'm sure he will write strongly worded letters to local council about speed limits (or at least think about writing them), but at the time action is required, he will protect them.
 
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As I thought, it had nothing to do with my words - but your stubborn insistence that I said what you originally imagined, even after Myrthos pointed out your mistake for you.

Which is pretty sad but not at all uncommon online. The irony of your hipocrisy about the failings of online communication is pretty thick here.

Anyway, I have games to play and you have fantasies to indulge.
 
but I just happen to think there are abilities that would benefit us all to a much wider degree, and I would love it if people joined in celebrating a different kind of human being - as well as working towards a different kind of world, rather than being stuck on what will ultimately only bring suffering and misery to the world, regardless of best intentions.

Please be the change you want to see.
 
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