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Default Divinity: Original Sin II - The Zelda of Roleplaying Games

July 23rd, 2018, 13:31
Techquila is stating that Divinity: Original Sin II is to Western RPGs what Zelda is to JRPGs and then describes why the author feels it is one of the best RPGs.

The Legend of Zelda is often hailed as one of the best Japanese games (if not the best game) of this generation. While it may be one of the finest Eastern adventure games, I donít quite believe that there arenít any Western RPGs out there that donít have anything better to offer. In my opinion, one such game is Larian studiosí Divinity Original Sin II.

JRPGs have a niche but vocal audience, many of whom tend to be reviewers and critics. The reason for the relatively smaller fan-base of JRPGs can be attributed to multiple reasons. Firstly, being limited to only one or two consoles (for Zelda that would be the Nintendos). Secondly, having childish, cliched settings and lastly, the absence of a localized English version for some.

Gamers tend to have varied tastes which makes it even harder to rate games. Most RPG fans prefer games with darker themes like Dragon Age and The Witcher 3, while the rest opt for JRPGs having colorful visuals and light-hearted stories. In this post, seeing as itís coming to current-gen consoles in the coming days, I would like to discuss Divinity Original Sin II and why itís one of the best RPGs ever.
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July 23rd, 2018, 13:31
The Legend of Zelda is often hailed as one of the best Japanese games (if not the best game) of this generation.
Seriously?
If that's one of the best if not *the* best japanese game, then all japanese games are plain garbage.
Calling DOS2 western Zelda is a plain insult. I wish I noticed that article first as it'd instantly go in bs of the week.

But only for Zelda part, because DOS2 is one of the best RPGs out there - you don't have to waste time on cooking, trashmobs don't respawn, Ubisoft towers doesn't exist in it and your sword won't break after only 3 hits.
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July 23rd, 2018, 13:37
I quite agree with you but the critics say otherwise
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July 23rd, 2018, 13:43
It's a confusing piece because he doesn't even specify which game he's talking about.

Is he talking about the original TLoZ, the most recent one, or the entire series?
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July 23rd, 2018, 14:24
Seems to me the only way the author is comparing DOSII to Zelda is in terms of popularity, not any mechanics. Zelda's a game (series) with broad base of appeal and so is DOS2. It is often debated whether Zelda games should even be considered an RPG: For instance, there's only one stat: Hearts (and you don't even increase your hearts by "leveling up" but rather by finding pieces). Any other improvement to your character comes from newly acquired equipment and again there's no stats to improve. Does that sound like an RPG to you?

Anyway, I think Zelda is overrated series. Not bad at all when you're a kid, but they all start to feel the same after however many games it's been; the basic formula just hasn't changed much. However, I also found Divinity Original Sin to be very overrated. Granted I have not played the second one and some people here are saying the sequel is an improvement in many ways, but I'm just not willing to drop $45 to find out.
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July 23rd, 2018, 15:11
Whatever point the author hoped to make was lost in:
- The lack of specificity about the Zelda franchise
- The lack of a clear narrative
- Appalingly bad writing

Look - like them or not, some of the Zelda games rank up there as some of the great games of all time. Ocarina of Time, for example, is stunningly good and holds up today as ported to the 3DS. But there are plenty of mediocre entries as well.

Regardless, I would much rather play *any* of the Divinity games, because they are totally my jam.
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July 23rd, 2018, 15:14
In terms of story and characters, DOSII is an improvement over the original DOS. In terms of gameplay…not so much. While i am not a big fan of the Codex, their review pointed quite a few things that are wrong in terms of gameplay.

DOS series are not bad, but they are a wee bit bland, with no outstanding moments in the story, nor memorable characters. What it makes it worse is the fact that you could probably find memorable characters and moments in the older games of the series, but not in those recent games…
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July 23rd, 2018, 15:31
I got all the way to the end battle in the first game and completely lost interest. Never finished it. I wanted to like it so badly, but it just didn't do it for me. I can, however, understand why others like it so much. It certainly is well made.

The loot system sums up everything I hated about Original Sin. I just got tired of the need to constantly upgrade my equipment every level or two. Finding and buying more loot essentially IS the game. Boring. I have a character in Pillars of Eternity who kept the same armor for almost the entire game. It was unique and it made sense for the character to wear it. It had meaning to it. Everything you pick up in D:OS is essentially garbage two levels later.

Anyway, just my opinion. I don't care much for Diablo, either.
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July 23rd, 2018, 15:38
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
Whatever point the author hoped to make was lost in:
- The lack of specificity about the Zelda franchise
- The lack of a clear narrative
- Appalingly bad writing

Look - like them or not, some of the Zelda games rank up there as some of the great games of all time. Ocarina of Time, for example, is stunningly good and holds up today as ported to the 3DS. But there are plenty of mediocre entries as well.

Regardless, I would much rather play *any* of the Divinity games, because they are totally my jam.
Thanks for pointing it out. I had to write this in a bit of a hurry. The main objective was to promote it among console gamers who are quite ignorant of Larian's games. The only reason I mentioned Zelda is cos everyone knows about it and the franchise always tends to get insanely high ratings. It's just a comparison of how enjoyable the game really is. Zelda seemed like an ideal match since it's a nintendo exclusive while DOSII was a timed PC exclusive. Anyway thanks for pointing it out. in the future, I'll be sure to be more careful and explain everything in detail
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July 23rd, 2018, 16:05
Came here to bash Zelda as the utter crap it is. Saw plenty of folks beat me to it! Leaves happy.
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July 23rd, 2018, 16:22
I'm not reading something what that stupid a title
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July 23rd, 2018, 16:22
Personally I don't get the comparison at all, but that could be just my interpretation. I find these two not to be apples and oranges, but more like red meat versus salad.
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July 23rd, 2018, 16:26
For the last time people, The main objective was to promote it among console gamers who are quite ignorant of Larian's games. The only reason I mentioned Zelda is cos everyone knows about it and the franchise always tends to get insanely high ratings. It's just a comparison of how enjoyable the game really is. Zelda seemed like an ideal match since it's a nintendo exclusive while DOSII was a timed PC exclusive. Anyway thanks for pointing it out. in the future, I'll be sure to be more careful and explain everything in detail. Sigh, whatever. I'll be more careful with titles from here on out
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July 23rd, 2018, 16:57
The Legend of Zelda: Brrath of the Wild is an absolute modern classic. Wise developers did well to play it and see how the bar is raised.

It's the distilled essence of gameplay, of fun, delivered in an innovative coating, as only Nintendo is capable of doing.

No wonder the rave reviews it got from critics and players, being considered by many as a staple, as one of, if not the best game ever made.

That said, it's pointless to compare it with Divine Divinity. Apples and oranges.

During more than 30 years of gaming, I'm seldon surprised by a new game. Fortunately, CD Projekt and Nintendo magane to save the day and innovate in a pretty stale market.
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July 23rd, 2018, 18:58
Originally Posted by txa1265 View Post
…like them or not, some of the Zelda games rank up there as some of the great games of all time.
I agree in that *some* Zelda games were great (to me). Out of the entire series though (including gameboy spinoffs), the Zelda games I enjoyed and completed are few coming in at just 3 (finished original Zelda, Zelda 3 (link to the past), and Windwaker (which I personally enjoyed though that game seems hated among series fans). Finished about 50% of Ocarina and Twilight Princess before getting bored for whatever reason. The rest I bought and started but quickly decided they weren't fun. I haven't bought Breath of the Wild as I do not have a Nintendo Switch (waiting to see if they are in fact repeating the same not-enough-games failure they had with the Wii U or not… game releases for Switch continue to be in "stall mode" so we'll see).
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July 23rd, 2018, 19:12
The article is really not very good because it is somewhat confusing and does not state which Zelda games it's talking about. Just came here to say that the Zelda franchise is pretty good. A Link to the Past, from the SNES, is one of the best games of its genre and Ocarina of Time and Majora's Mask are still great even if you guys disliked the latest entry in the series, which was somewhat divisive even with long-time fans, although it had a wide mass appeal.
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July 23rd, 2018, 19:14
Originally Posted by Clocknova View Post
I got all the way to the end battle in the first game and completely lost interest. Never finished it.
I had a similar experience. I got all the way to the City of Arx and just lost interest. I really didn't feel like exploring a large city as the stage for the end of the game - a fairly subjective reason I admit.

I love Larian as a company and really enjoyed Divine Divinity and to a lesser extent, Divinity 2 (the super finished version I forget what they called it).

I like the game engine they've come up with. But where they lose me with the Original Sin series is where they emphasized and de-emphasized. They spent a huge amount of time developing and refining tactical combat. Creating bajillions of objects most of which are uninteresting and useless. A crafting system that really doesn't need to be there but if it's going to be there, should provide a lot more useful things.

I was hoping the Original Sin series would surpass the world simulation aspects of Ultima 7. A continuous world without "maps" or "zones" would help a a lot… I know this has to do with limitations of console memory but still. Obviously, day/night cycles where time of day impacts NPC behaviors, danger levels, and perhaps other creative things. A real weather system that impacts the game the way day/night cycles might.

I enjoyed the custom characters of D:OS2 but this idea should be extended to the game world itself. The land of Britannia in the ultima series was as much a character as any NPC. Named dungeons, each steeped in lore, with NPCs providing information about their "danger levels" as just one example.

I have enjoyed the original sin games and I'm very happy that Larian is out there making games. It's just that the focus of the original sin games went in a bit of a different direction from Divine Divinity, which i consider their best game so far.
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July 23rd, 2018, 19:36
Originally Posted by TheMadGamer View Post
I had a similar experience. I got all the way to the City of Arx and just lost interest. I really didn't feel like exploring a large city as the stage for the end of the game - a fairly subjective reason I admit.

I love Larian as a company and really enjoyed Divine Divinity and to a lesser extent, Divinity 2 (the super finished version I forget what they called it).

I like the game engine they've come up with. But where they lose me with the Original Sin series is where they emphasized and de-emphasized. They spent a huge amount of time developing and refining tactical combat. Creating bajillions of objects most of which are uninteresting and useless. A crafting system that really doesn't need to be there but if it's going to be there, should provide a lot more useful things.

I was hoping the Original Sin series would surpass the world simulation aspects of Ultima 7. A continuous world without "maps" or "zones" would help a a lot… I know this has to do with limitations of console memory but still. Obviously, day/night cycles where time of day impacts NPC behaviors, danger levels, and perhaps other creative things. A real weather system that impacts the game the way day/night cycles might.

I enjoyed the custom characters of D:OS2 but this idea should be extended to the game world itself. The land of Britannia in the ultima series was as much a character as any NPC. Named dungeons, each steeped in lore, with NPCs providing information about their "danger levels" as just one example.

I have enjoyed the original sin games and I'm very happy that Larian is out there making games. It's just that the focus of the original sin games went in a bit of a different direction from Divine Divinity, which i consider their best game so far.
I agree with your criticism of DOS and DOS2.

To me, their games never really felt "authentic" - like, say, Ultima or Gothic. The engines are great and flexible - but they don't seem to put enough effort into the setting or the ambience.

I also agree they tend to go overboard with certain systems - and it's definitely true that the crafting system in DOS is completely superfluous. Much of the loot system is also boring and flawed - and the character system is less interesting than it seems like, at first.

I really dislike the over-emphasis on the elemental/magical effects during combat in DOS1 - where you almost never get to just be really tactical and smart, because that would get you killed through some stupid explosion that you unfortunately missed. It's almost like they encourage you to game the system, rather than be tactical. In DOS2 - it was less pronounced - but still an issue more often than not.

Which is sad, because the heart of the combat system is truly excellent - and I would have enjoyed it much more with a more straightforward approach.

But, what I do admire - and greatly so - are the interaction and simulation aspects of the world.

That said, the primary reason I'm a huge fan of DOS is the coop multiplayer and just how far they went making that work so well - and with such flexibility.

As for the Zelda games, I don't feel like I've played them enough to have a really informed opinion.

I think I understand why people like them - but they don't seem like immersive games to me. They seem more like a collection of toys and mini-games - where they cram as much "fun and cute" stuff into the world as they can, and you're supposed to just have a lot of silly fun.

Which is probably great for a lot of people - but absolutely not the way I enjoy games for the most part.
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July 23rd, 2018, 20:19
The article shows another effect of the crowdfunded scene: people try to push products up.

The Zelda franchise has many classics, games that innovate and set milestones.

The last Zelda is one of them, it innovates by linking heavy gameplay to the exploration of an open world.

DOS2 is gameplay light, best thing to happen in here is wax hours over going for a 67 pc chance against a 68 pc chance.

JRPGS stories are light hearted. After all, DOS2 is the zelda of roleplaying games.
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July 23rd, 2018, 22:09
I could be mistaken but in my view none of the Larian games attempt to 'authentic' like a Gothic. When I first played Gothic (I didn't get very far and never picked it up again); it felt authentic to the point of being annoying. I never played Ultimate - it was pretty much before my time - or at least before I started playing rpg and by the time I thought about trying it I felt it was garbage (I know it is very popular with a lot of people but when I tried to play it in a modern world it felt very cumbersome and poorly designed ui - even compare to m&m games which I played around 2003).

Originally Posted by Darth Tagnan View Post
I agree with your criticism of DOS and DOS2.

To me, their games never really felt "authentic" - like, say, Ultima or Gothic. The engines are great and flexible - but they don't seem to put enough effort into the setting or the ambience.
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