Lands of Lore is an MMO?
And neither is League of Legends
Joxer's definitions of MMO got updated
Huge Paycuts At Blizzard
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And neither is League of Legends
Joxer's definitions of MMO got updated
Carnifex
SasqWatch
Thanks for the reminder, I'm due another play-through of Lands of Lore one of these days!
You can't play WoW with mushrooms, either.
And I think it is worth noticing that both these PC games failed in their control schemes because of it.
With LoL, dota2, HON, etc you're stuck with click to move and, by default, mouse edge scrolling to change your view. A "twin-stick" style of control with your left mushroom moving you around and your right mushroom changing your firing angle would control much better.
With WoW you use WASD to move and your spells are on 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0, -, = but your hand can only reach to 5 before you have to stop moving to reach a key, maybe even look down at the keyboard.
If WoW had set out to be playable on controller from the start I think you'd see an action bar similar to Diablo3 or LoL, dota, hon which all have only 4 abilities on q, w, e, r.
If you want an example of an MMORPG and not a MOBA think along the lines of MMORPG games and not MOBAS, like Lord of the Rings online or D&D online. Both get mentioned here fairly often and both have had less success than WoW but enough to still be around today.
SWTOR seemds to have copied that - and yes, ou can train your self to some degree like "I've just touchted F4, by logic next comes F5", and same with F8 to F9. You can use the gaps between those keys as an "memory anchor".
I often play SWTOR in semi-darkness, and I often have to rely on that - but I must also admit that I've given up PvP and other fast-paced things mostly. I think I'm too old for that now, and younger people can be so much faster than I could. Plus, they have (exaggeration) 10-key mouses, fully programmed, etc. . I just refuse to buy myself such a monster, because I'm just not such a hardcore gamer.
ChienAboyeur
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Crowdfunded scene initiated a lowering in expectations on gameplay quality.
Experienced, confirmed and able game developpers have lost value in the same move.
Makes no sense to reward able game developpers when they are not needed to put out products that will sell while even not being a game.
They are proficient but their proficiency is no longer in demand.
Experienced, confirmed and able game developpers have lost value in the same move.
Makes no sense to reward able game developpers when they are not needed to put out products that will sell while even not being a game.
They are proficient but their proficiency is no longer in demand.
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Ragnaris
Sentinel
What about game developers who have never been part of a Kickstarter project?
It's not that black and white. This goes beyond just the crowdfunding scene.
People don't go to Kickstarter and demand a game from amateur developers. Backers only want a good game. If the KS project creators have a history in game development, more power to them, and if they're associated with well received games of the past, it only helps.
Kickstarter imho still alienates those people without a credit card - their number might be small, but they do exist.
ChienAboyeur
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The crowdfunded scene revealed players could put up with sub par products.
This devalues the proficiency of game developpers: they are no longer required as games are no longer required.
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Lucky Day
Daywatch
The Nintendo Wii did that. So did endless platformers on Steam.
The problem is, is that Kickstarter devs don't scale down their products.
Ragnaris
Sentinel
Somewhat. Again, it's not so black and white.
I think people started looking into projects that appealed to them, rather than rely on name brands or well known individuals in the industry (ex: back in the day, if you saw a game from Konami, chances are you were in for a fun time, same goes for Black Isle or Troika). Nowadays people focus more on the product, rather than the people associated with it. Of course, there are exceptions to this.
You could say that developers being devalued are attributed to Kickstarter as a result, but I wouldn't say Kickstarter was the sole cause of it. Valve isn't associated with making great games anymore because, well, they only host games, and they're not selective about what they host. I'd say that contributed to devalued devs, not just Kickstarter. We also see a lot more bad games made publicly available thanks to Steam (unfinished, broken, etc), and the market is flooded as a result. A decade ago, you had to go out of your way to find an unfinished/broken game.
And in the age of microtransactions, I think the gaming public is more apt to lose interest in a company if they make a mistake, which is why they put their faith in the game rather than the people who design it. Again, there are exceptions.
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Ovenall
SasqWatch
I recently met a 40 year old guy who still plays WoW very regularly... almost every night. It's astonishing to me.
Cacheperl
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From what I hear about some developers that work in my general vicinity, this "exploiting the employees passion" approach is very common in the game industry.
It probably affects most jobs in creative fields.
Unless you are freelance, in which case you are able to exploit yourself instead.
It probably affects most jobs in creative fields.
Unless you are freelance, in which case you are able to exploit yourself instead.
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ChienAboyeur
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Steam Early Access service is Steam version of crowdfunding. Steam wanted their share of the crowdfunding pie and had the power to make it happen. Crowdfunded projects usually includes that SEA stage as part of their funding.
People do not care about names. They do not even know the name of the guys behind GTA. Hirers know though.
There are always been bad and good games but publishers used to screen out as they could.
The crowdfunded scene set the bar much lower, players voted with their dollars, developpers'proficiency got devalued in the doing. No longer needed.
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Ragnaris
Sentinel
Correct.
You're thinking of individual people. The term "names" could apply to both people and/or a company.
Rest assured, there are people who place their trust in certain names. They're not the majority (probably), but they do exist.
I don't think anyone's denying that crowdfunding is a contributor. But it goes beyond just crowdfunding.
ChienAboyeur
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Crowdfunded projects that had the assets play the card of the name, whether on person or on studio.
Crowdfunded projects were more likely not to produce the assets. That is the difference. Not that many known studios went the crowdfunded scene road. People were more numerous hence the emphasis on people's case.
The crowdfunded scene drove a large shift in the market. Knowing whether devs' toothpaste played a part in the cut is irrelevant. There are obviously other contributing factors. That is missing the big picture though.
Crowdfunded projects were more likely not to produce the assets. That is the difference. Not that many known studios went the crowdfunded scene road. People were more numerous hence the emphasis on people's case.
The crowdfunded scene drove a large shift in the market. Knowing whether devs' toothpaste played a part in the cut is irrelevant. There are obviously other contributing factors. That is missing the big picture though.
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Almost misreading that : "Huge Haircuts Az Blizzard!" :lol:
P
pibbur who
Guest
Ok, I may astonish you now, but I play WOW for a couple of months now and then (years apart). It's mindless fun, and sometimes I like that.
pibbur who claims that having mindless fun is not the same as losing his mind, but admits that in this particular case some may disagree. And who doesn't like the current development at Blizzard. And who wonders if/when WOW will be mobile only.
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