Gothic Newb Question: NotR

Steelbeard

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After enjoying Risen, I went and got Gothic 2 with Night of the Raven. I was wondering if a new player should install Night of the Raven before starting the game or if it's something to wait to do after you finish the original story in Gothic 2. What's your advice?
 
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Thanks! That answers my question. I just saw the Gothic section, so sorry for mucking up things here.
 
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I'd recommend you to install NotR and Community Patch v2.0.

I´d advise against installing the Community Patch. From reading its thread on WoG it seems it rather creates more bugs than it fixes, especially in regards to addon world.
 
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There is already Gothic 2 forum here, but I'd recommend you to install NotR and Community Patch v2.0. If you don't install NotR, you'll need to play the whole game again since NotR adds quests here and there, a bit like "Extended Edition of Gothic 2".

The overlap isn't that big. NotR plays in the first two G2 chapters, and it has its own end sequence. You can stop there.

What's clear is that G2 Gold is the real thing. The only problem is that the add-on makes the game very hard according to today's standards.
 
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I personally think Gothic 2 is better without the addon installed because it makes so many changes, and in my opinion bad changes. It's much more difficult because for some reason the designers thought it would be a good idea to just give every NPC maximum strength and dexterity, so a farmer with a tree branch can kill you if you're not careful, even in your swanky dragon hunters armour.

Since it's not exactly an easy game to begin with I'd recommend playing it once without the expansion installed, so you get the hang of it. Then play again with the expansion for an extra challenge. It will give you something new to look forward to as well.
 
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Other than the difficulty, which I didn't have a probelm with personally, I can't think of a single negative thing regarding NotR.
 
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I never understood that "NOTR is difficult" thing.

Of course, if you try to play the game by "run towards enemies and click on them" like an ARPG, you will have problems, but that is true already for the vanilla game.
 
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I never understood that "NOTR is difficult" thing.

Of course, if you try to play the game by "run towards enemies and click on them" like an ARPG, you will have problems, but that is true already for the vanilla game.

I understand. People are dumb so they would rather like to kill everything that moves than think how to avoid something or how to survive difficult encounter. That's why we have level scalling like in Oblivion or enemies are very easy like in Mass Effect. Too bad because NotR's difficulty is just perfect, yet no one else did something like that.

Steelbeard -> My advice is to play Gothic first and when you complete it move to Gothic 2 NotR. As you should guess G2 continues story from the first Gothic.
 
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I never understood that "NOTR is difficult" thing.

Me neither, and it's not like I consider myself particularly good at games. It starts off pretty difficult but then so did Gothic. The best strategy early on is to do as many non-combat quests as possible, and only then go off exploring. And once you acquire a certain weapon the game becomes almost too easy, at least for characters that primarily use melee combat.
 
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I understand. People are dumb so they would rather like to kill everything that moves than think how to avoid something or how to survive difficult encounter.

Either that or people like to have fun playing games, not being frustrated by having to do the same thing over and over and over again, due to masochistic difficulties that only real fanbois can enjoy ... funny how you can get the same result by turning the table. ;)

Personally, I fought for ages trying to get a hold of a proper English version of NotR but when I finally got it, the whole difficulty issue turned me off so completely I lost all interest in it.
 
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It's your fault you're dumb, not NotR's.
 
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Either that or people like to have fun playing games, not being frustrated by having to do the same thing over and over and over again, due to masochistic difficulties that only real fanbois can enjoy … funny how you can get the same result by turning the table. ;)

No, you can not.
Konjad´s assessment is definitely closer to truth, though it´s not really about people being dumb or not, it´s about whether they´re willing to play smart or not.

First, G2 with NotR simply isn´t a game for people who for whatever reasons adamantly dislike challenge in their games.

Second, there are no inherent "masochistic difficulties" in G2: NotR. If you don´t pay attention to your char´s development, available resources, circumstances etc., plus expect to be able to overcome every challenge you come across right away, then it´s rather certain you end up with these "masochistic difficulties", but that´s not really the game´s fault, is it?
In other words, only masochists in regards to G2: NotR are people who refuse to stop playing it dumb.

Third, the game´s inherent challenges are well thought out and meaningful. They never require random luck or periodic grind sessions, they never include opponents whose strength just doesn´t make sense (aka level scaling) and they mostly yield suitable rewards, especially for a smart player who is able to come with means of overcoming them earlier than his char´s level would suggest.

And for what it´s worth, I´m pretty sure that the beginning of G2 with NotR installed is actually rebalanced to be easier than in vanilla.
 
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I've played both and NoTR is clearly more difficult. The LP's are down or the skills are more expensive (I forget which) and with the exception of Blood Flies which I think are weaker everything is pretty hard to kill. Orcs particularly. Sure by the end of the game you are laying waste to anything that moves but getting there was pretty tough. And the f*cking Boars.... my personal loathing for that particular opponent knows no bounds!

That being said I'd still go G2 + NoTR. Sure it is frustrating for lots of players but the reward of success makes it worth it.
 
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Lacking understanding for the difficulty of NotR is somewhat arrogant. Playing it unless you've tried either Gothic 1 or 2 before is very, very hard - not because combat is so hard or because you have to avoid "running towards stuff while clicking", but because talent points are so limited you really have to know what you're doing.

Taking on the biggest monsters later on as a Magician without a solid build is practically impossible; you won't have the mana or spells to do any damage at all.

Planning ahead is pretty much a requirement for playing NotR, or you won't even be able to hurt most monsters.

As always, I recommend playing G2 vanilla, unless we're dealing with a very patient player - NotR certainly makes G2 a much better experience, but it's also very hard.
 
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No, you can not.
Konjad´s assessment is definitely closer to truth, though it´s not really about people being dumb or not, it´s about whether they´re willing to play smart or not.

First, G2 with NotR simply isn´t a game for people who for whatever reasons adamantly dislike challenge in their games.

Second, there are no inherent "masochistic difficulties" in G2: NotR. If you don´t pay attention to your char´s development, available resources, circumstances etc., plus expect to be able to overcome every challenge you come across right away, then it´s rather certain you end up with these "masochistic difficulties", but that´s not really the game´s fault, is it?
In other words, only masochists in regards to G2: NotR are people who refuse to stop playing it dumb.

Third, the game´s inherent challenges are well thought out and meaningful. They never require random luck or periodic grind sessions, they never include opponents whose strength just doesn´t make sense (aka level scaling) and they mostly yield suitable rewards, especially for a smart player who is able to come with means of overcoming them earlier than his char´s level would suggest.

And for what it´s worth, I´m pretty sure that the beginning of G2 with NotR installed is actually rebalanced to be easier than in vanilla.

Hmmm, first of all using the words Assessment and Truth in the same sentence is rather suspect.

Let's see if I can remember a few of the top of my head ... indeed:

1) The orc axe (I think it was an axe but it might have been different kind of weapon) you have to get for the smith in the early stages of the game. After trying 6 times to attempt to take on the single orc in the back woods behind the town, getting seriously beat up, going back trying to level some more and attempt again, I finally managed to complete the quest by luring the orc away from his cave, sprinting back to steal the axe and run away as fast as I could before the brute got back.

2) Then there's the lighthouse bandits overlooking the harbor onto of the hill. At least 10 attempts did it take to finally being able to take them out by hiding on the roof like a coward turning them into pincushions with my bow and arrow.

Then of course there are the dozens of encounters where you walked a little bit too far to the left/right of the road in middle of the day/night and thus attracted some hellish beats attention and before you could scream Oh Crap! you were turned into to something's snack.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy playing the Gothic games, but the frustration level in the beginning portions several times had me close to quitting them altogether and play something more enjoyable instead. For the first 2 games part, I'm glad I stuck with them but when reading about how much harder G2 became with NotR installed I completely lost interest in trying (never did manage to finish G3 though due to savegame corruption).
 
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Great stories. Even if you were frustrated and on the edge throwing keyboard against the wall, I'll bet you never forget the experience and the feel when you finally managed to complete your guests. :woot:

That's why I like gothic games. At start you fear anything that moves, in the end vice versa. ;)
 
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Hmmm, first of all using the words Assessment and Truth in the same sentence is rather suspect.

Let's see if I can remember a few of the top of my head … indeed:

1) The orc axe (I think it was an axe but it might have been different kind of weapon) you have to get for the smith in the early stages of the game. After trying 6 times to attempt to take on the single orc in the back woods behind the town, getting seriously beat up, going back trying to level some more and attempt again, I finally managed to complete the quest by luring the orc away from his cave, sprinting back to steal the axe and run away as fast as I could before the brute got back.

The smith throws this challenge very early on because he thinks nameless is a weakling. This doesn't however mean that his challenge should be completed right then. I remember clearly that you could question his motivations and get him to admit that beating an orc is not the easiest task. In return the smith offers you an optional way to gain his trust (killing few low level bandits).

Even though you can complete both of these quests to really impress him, the orc killing isn't required in the early game. Moreover there are 3 different orcs in new world. A scout in the woods, a warrior in some cave and an elite hidden in forrest behind some farm. The orc scout in the woods is the easiest to beat. It can be done one on one in melee combat but there are alternative options.

a) you can lure him the shadowbeast who is sleeping near by and let the beast take care of the orc. You can also lure him near the town guards.

b) There is always an option to use magic scrolls. A freeze scroll or two can be bought from the market place merchant. An other intresting option is to use transform magic..you will just have to do a quest or two for the crazy alchemist at the harbour.

c) you can accept the hunting mission from Bosmer's old aprentice. Then the guy will guide you towards the woods where the orc scout is hiding. Its much easier together.

Last but not least there is an abandoned orc axe in the hidden valley near Xardas tower just waiting to be discovered.

2) Then there's the lighthouse bandits overlooking the harbor onto of the hill. At least 10 attempts did it take to finally being able to take them out by hiding on the roof like a coward turning them into pincushions with my bow and arrow.

Once again this is not a low level challenge. Those bandits are really nasty. I think they are the most difficult bandits in the entire game.
 
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The Gothic games start difficult, and yes, NOTR is more difficult even than vanilla G2, but if you're careful and save often, you will find that there are still always ways and means of :"getting there" and even for grinding.

Pity you didn't get yourself Gothic Universe, Steelbeard. I agree with the posters who recommended starting with G1 for the story's sake.

On the other hand, the more faint-hearted seem rather put off by G1's controls.

Ironically, it's the only Gothic that I completely finished. (Well, it is also the shortest Gothic game). I interrupted my G2 playthough to rather restart in order to do NOTR, and then never got right to the end, and I've started G3 about 3 times, each time going a different route but never managing to make it to the end.

I should actually toss a coin and make a committment to start where I left off with at least one of them and finish the darn thing for a change.. :p
 
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1) The orc axe (I think it was an axe but it might have been different kind of weapon) you have to get for the smith in the early stages of the game. After trying 6 times to attempt to take on the single orc in the back woods behind the town, getting seriously beat up, going back trying to level some more and attempt again, I finally managed to complete the quest by luring the orc away from his cave, sprinting back to steal the axe and run away as fast as I could before the brute got back.

I haven´t played G2 for some time, but I think you may have this quest a bit mixed up - you can find the orc axe in one cave behind the town, but that´s actually an alternative route to finish the quest and you don´t have to deal with said orc at all, because he´s residing by the other town gates.
Anyway, if you want to get the axe from the orc himself, you can:
a) try to take him down yourself, which should quickly prove to be quite a bad idea, but it´s certainly possible to succeed, especially if you´re willing to use some of the rarer spell scrolls
b) one guy in town wants you to help him to hunt some beasts and since those reside in the same area as the orc, you may take advantage of it and use him to help you with the orc
c) you can lure the orc to guards at the town gate who will make a short process with him

This quest actually shows quite nicely some of G2´s strengths, I think.

Lighthouse bandits are pretty badass, but since it´s a side quest you can always leave them for later.

edit: Ah, Dez already addressed these, that´s what I get for cooking a dinner instead of finishing the post first :).

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying that I didn't enjoy playing the Gothic games, but the frustration level in the beginning portions several times had me close to quitting them altogether and play something more enjoyable instead. For the first 2 games part, I'm glad I stuck with them but when reading about how much harder G2 became with NotR installed I completely lost interest in trying (never did manage to finish G3 though due to savegame corruption).

As I mentioned earlier, I´m quite sure NotR actually smoothens the difficulty curve in the beginning. For example, you get a strength boosting belt (or something similar) in Xardas tower, you get help with the bandits along the way to the city, etc., and I think this goes a bit further into the game (Lares can help you clear quite a nice chunk of the map, for example).

I know that NotR is a relatively difficult game, but it´s also a game which plays fair.

Taking on the biggest monsters later on as a Magician without a solid build is practically impossible; you won't have the mana or spells to do any damage at all.

Playing a mage in G2 was always more difficult (and required paying more attention to character building) than other two classes though.
In NotR, however, you can make your mage at least a bit more versatile - there are some nice dexterity based swords with quite low requirements. There´s also an added Ice Lance spell which makes a lot of difference when it comes to mage´s offensive abilities in early chapters.
 
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