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May 16th, 2022, 09:59
Originally Posted by largh View Post
Somebody should definitely start a trend of making RPGs (or AAA games in general) immersive simulations. I know CDPR has been trying but we know how that has been going so far…Related to my comment in the UE5 thread: developers need a similar focus on tools making it easier to keep all the threads in their hands than is put in graphics engines. That would benefit isometric games too. Development times of games having flexible choice-and-consequence are almost as long as for third-person games focussing on the visuals (BG3 as an example). These games tend to be unplayable mess when released. I am sure it is possible to help the situation with right kind of smart tools.
Someone would say read a book if you want a story as well, but I agree.
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May 16th, 2022, 10:10
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Someone would say read a book if you want a story as well, but I agree.
Yeah, but a book that you can influence with your decisions is hard to find.
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May 16th, 2022, 10:17
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
Yeah, but a book that you can influence with your decisions is hard to find.
Wasn't there a genre of choose your own adventure in the past? I don't know it they still make those. Anyway story in games just has to be acceptable to sell your game.

Jeff Vogel posted a blog post that was brutal and both true on the subject.

Link - https://bottomfeeder.substack.com/p/…me-stories?s=r
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May 16th, 2022, 10:27
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Jeff Vogel posted a blog post that was brutal and both true on the subject.

Link - https://bottomfeeder.substack.com/p/…me-stories?s=r
Thanks for the link. Well articulated opinion indeed. That's what I meant about writing in most AAA games but could not express myself as well.
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May 16th, 2022, 10:29
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Wasn't there a genre of choose your own adventure in the past? I don't know it they still make those. Anyway story in games just has to be acceptable to sell your game.

Jeff Vogel posted a blog post that was brutal and both true on the subject.

Link - https://bottomfeeder.substack.com/p/…me-stories?s=r
Yes, there must have been such books, "go to page xxx if you decide to do this and that". Of course it's sexier with a game wrapped around it. And as you say… once the game is there, the story suddenly gets less important.

I've seen that article somewhere, wasn't it posted here (by you?) some time ago? Good stuff.
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May 16th, 2022, 10:36
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
Yes, there must have been such books, "go to page xxx if you decide to do this and that". Of course it's sexier with a game wrapped around it. And as you say… once the game is there, the story suddenly gets less important.

I've seen that article somewhere, wasn't it posted here (by you?) some time ago? Good stuff.
Yeah it was shared last year in my thread and on the front-page.
Originally Posted by largh View Post
Thanks for the link. Well articulated opinion indeed. That's what I meant about writing in most AAA games but could not express myself as well.
Glad you enjoyed reading it Jeff has been in the business for over thirty years.
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May 16th, 2022, 10:47
Originally Posted by Redglyph View Post
Yes, there must have been such books, "go to page xxx if you decide to do this and that".
If there's a page with xxx, I'm definitely choosing that one. There's nothing to decide.
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May 16th, 2022, 12:32
Originally Posted by Centaur View Post
I still don't understand when some people post "Ah, these are alpha/beta/early access features, why did the devs release the game without these features".

Maybe because (just like 99% of studios) ran out of money and had to launch the game? Do you think developers are happy and content to release unfinished and buggy games?

Darkness is not in Black Geyser Couriers. It is among some RPG people.
Because having poor judgement and overreaching for things you're not ready for, trying to bite more than you can chew is a good reason to scam people, of course. It explains and excuses everything.

Poor guy, he wanted to be a popstar but his singing skills weren't great, and since he didn't want to work at the fishmongers or the call centre like every other average person, he was forced to shoot someone that was walking by to take their money. Let's all mourn and be sorry for him, he was just trying to claim his right to have the awesome job of his dreams even though he wasn't ready for it.

Why pay for your own mistakes if you can scam others so they pay for you?
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Last edited by Nereida; May 16th, 2022 at 12:43.
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May 17th, 2022, 05:12
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
Because having poor judgement and overreaching for things you're not ready for, trying to bite more than you can chew is a good reason to scam people, of course. It explains and excuses everything.
[..]
Why pay for your own mistakes if you can scam others so they pay for you?
First, there is no scam, because Black Geyser didn't state anything at release publicly that it doesn't offer. In the 2-hour refund period, the player has plenty of time to evaluate the quality of the game.

Second, I don't think it's a "mistake" that someone ran out of funding. Even it happens with projects of bigger companies. Even if we assume that's a "mistake", does it mean that minor studios that rush out their games should simply just close instead? So choosing between "rushed out game" and "no game"?

Your post baths in malice and condescending superiority. You know, being harsh or determined has only a value if you have actual credibility in the community. Being empathic is an important asset for a human.
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May 17th, 2022, 06:46
Originally Posted by Couchpotato View Post
Wasn't there a genre of choose your own adventure in the past? I don't know it they still make those. Anyway story in games just has to be acceptable to sell your game.
There absolutely is and they are still going strong!

Fighting Fantasy, Lone Wolf, World of Lone Wolf, Sorcery!, Choose your own adventure etc etc. They vary from simple to complex. In some you manage an army, ships crew or even the crew of a starship. Some have simple combat systems i.e. roll 2 dice, others have complex combat systems where positioning and skill are both taken into account.

Personally my favourites were always the big name ones that I listed that were created by the god-fathers of the pick-a-path genre but there is literally thousands of options out there.

There are also plenty of video game adaptions that both faithful to the original i.e. Fighting Fantasy Classics (on Steam) or ones that just use the lore and have completely different systems i.e. Lone Wolf (also on Steam).
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May 17th, 2022, 13:10
Magnetic Scrolls made sevedral games in the eighties which weere basically interactive ficytion like that, but with pictures (Jinxter, Guild of Thieves, …). There were also games by Legend Entertainment in the early 90s, one example is the adaptation of Frederik Pohl's Gateway".

pibbuR who liked those games back then, and hopes that he would still like them today. If he could find them. And run them. And who (to make the post partly on topic) might want to play BG (not that BG), if he didn't have a prohibitively huge backlog.,
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May 17th, 2022, 15:23
Originally Posted by Centaur View Post
Your post baths in malice and condescending superiority. You know, being harsh or determined has only a value if you have actual credibility in the community. Being empathic is an important asset for a human.
Being empathic toward con-men and scammers is an important asset for the con-men and the scammers. Also the reason they even exist at all, under the knowledge that they can get away with it. So thank you for ruining the stew for the rest of us, as without gullible defenders of mediocrity, mediocrity wouldn't be a thing and everyone would dedicate their lives to some they're actually good at and we would all be better for it.

I would like to see you walk out of your surgery and the doctor say "sorry, our surgeon wasn't fully trained, he arrived late and used techniques that seemed to work in the past, but he couldn't finish the job. The surgery was a mess and subpar, really a miracle he could even stitch you back together at all, but please be empathic, he tried his best with the set of rusty apparel he could afford, and you might still live a few more years."

Obviously, surgery is not the same as entertainment, but it does paint the vivid colours of the hypocrisy in your statement. And the bottom line remains the same. You can settle for mediocrity, but I don't have to. You are only dragging standards down by defending and spreading the concept that failure and lack of talent is to be praised, and it's even sadder to see as you try to take some sort of imaginary moral high ground about it that only exists in your head.

Black Geyser didn't even try anything new, they literally copied a 20-year-old game, and failed miserably at it. Even Owlcat could do better.
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Last edited by Nereida; May 17th, 2022 at 15:56.
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May 17th, 2022, 15:53
Originally Posted by pibbuR View Post
Magnetic Scrolls made sevedral games in the eighties which weere basically interactive ficytion like that, but with pictures (Jinxter, Guild of Thieves, …). There were also games by Legend Entertainment in the early 90s, one example is the adaptation of Frederik Pohl's Gateway".

pibbuR who liked those games back then, and hopes that he would still like them today. If he could find them. And run them. And who (to make the post partly on topic) might want to play BG (not that BG), if he didn't have a prohibitively huge backlog.,
Backlog be damned, let me point you in the direction of this huge directory of interactive fiction games, because they are indeed alive and well and have been for some time: https://ifdb.org/
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May 17th, 2022, 16:51
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
Backlog be damned, let me point you in the direction of this huge directory of interactive fiction games, because they are indeed alive and well and have been for some time: https://ifdb.org/
Choice of Games is another big website with tons of options
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May 17th, 2022, 17:36
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
Backlog be damned, let me point you in the direction of this huge directory of interactive fiction games, because they are indeed alive and well and have been for some time: https://ifdb.org/
I hate you!!!!

pibbuR who to his pleasure found lots of interesting things and discovered that he actually can play some of those games (for instance jinxter) there.
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May 17th, 2022, 18:08
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
Choice of Games is another big website with tons of options
Yes, and just to clarify to anyone reading this who may not be familiar, Choice of Games has text based games that are more like the old Choose Your Own Adventure books, where you make a choice from a fixed list of options. They are typically not free.

The website I linked includes entries for all kinds of interactive fiction games, including so called parser based games. Think Infocom (Zork, etc), where you are typing in what you want to do under the constraints of the parser (the program that interprets text input) and not from a fixed list. Most of those games are free.
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May 17th, 2022, 18:18
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
Yes, and just to clarify to anyone reading this who may not be familiar, Choice of Games has text based games that are more like the old Choose Your Own Adventure books, where you make a choice from a fixed list of options. They are typically not free.



The website I linked includes entries for all kinds of interactive fiction games, including so called parser based games. Think Infocom (Zork, etc), where you are typing in what you want to do under the constraints of the parser (the program that interprets text input) and not from a fixed list. Most of those games are free.
Thank you [emoji4]
I didn't expand. Sorry about that.
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May 17th, 2022, 18:20
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
Thank you [emoji4]
I didn't expand. Sorry about that.
Please don't apologize! I've been a big fan of IF for forever and know quite a bit about it, but I rarely if ever get to evangelize for it. So it's my pleasure.
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May 17th, 2022, 23:44
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
Being empathic toward con-men and scammers is an important asset for the con-men and the scammers.
Ah OK, so you think Black Geyser is a scam. I'm afraid you can't point to a single person on this forum who would agree with you. Someone who would write "I agree with you it's a scam" here if you asked them. You're alone. Loud but alone.

Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
Black Geyser didn't even try anything new, they literally copied a 20-year-old game, and failed miserably at it. Even Owlcat could do better.
Owlcat is a great company with awesome games. They also help smaller indies. They shared a shout-out for the Kickstarter of Black Geyser, therefore Black Geyser made $100k US$ if I remember correctly.
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