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Default RPGWatch Feature - Black Geyser Review

May 18th, 2022, 16:07
Originally Posted by Myrthos View Post
As a side note, having a thread of 9 pages about Black Geyser, is already an achievement
And surprisingly fitting.

Since this might well be the last ever site-sanctioned review, I had a look at the first ever site-sanctioned review on the old RPGDot.

It was Avernum 2.

So, a small indy game with a likely promotional budget of word of mouth in specialist circles.

Michael C. reviewed it on the 14th April 2001 and gave it a 64% rating, but rounded up to a 7/10 rather than rounded down to 6.

The commenters on the article were, Jo?o Gouveia, Grzegorz, HiddenX, val, sean, Bjornpop, invictus, mastery, lokia, xeno, huj, spencer, dire, name, who all together averaged the scoring at 7.2/10.

3 gave 10s, 3 gave 9s, 3 gave 8s, 2 gave 7s and 1 gave 4. 2 people decided to bugger up the stats and give it a 1.

So not an awful lot has changed in the last 21 years & this might well make for a good book-end to this stage of RPGForumname.
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May 18th, 2022, 16:51
Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
I have to say the it is highly likely the people with such a strong opinion haven't even played the game or even own it in their steam accounts (or any other platform)!!!

I've already posted my opinion a couple of times. I am certainly enjoying the game but I am not finding it equal to BG2 or even BG1 yet.

I think it is pretty darn close to Pillars 1 though - excluding the brilliant White March expansion.

I have no desire to play Pillars of Eternity any time soon again and I have a feeling the same will apply to Black Geyser once I finish it. What I do love is the attention the devs have put into the game.

The highlights for me are:
The art/locations. These are really top notch and I think they must have had quite a skilled artist on the team.
The itemisation/loot I have quite enjoyed so far. The loot isn't as interesting as BG2 but it is a step up from the itemisation in Pillars.
The have done a good job on the ruleset and classes etc.
No lore dumps like Pillars1!

Where I think it needs the most improvement:
Companions!!! (This is a roadmap item)
Combat. It's too easy and more variety is required.
Cheers. I saw you posted before and read both your and the few other posts that were about the game itself.

It seems like it could be a fun experience to me. The graphics seem ok and the gameplay seems interesting. Depending on the story I can overlook if the battles are too easy.

I enjoyed BG 1 and 2 and both PoE games.
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May 18th, 2022, 17:04
Originally Posted by HiddenX View Post
I haven't played the game, but could it be as simple as that:

Black Geyser: Couriers of Darkness advertises with "A game like the old classics".
  • Some people (31% on Steam) compare it with the best AAA classics and are dissapointed.
  • Some people (69% on Steam) are happy that they get a new isometric RPG and rejoyce.

Not fulfilled espectations are often a cause for disapointment.
Actually a good argument, that sheds some truth. They oversold what they could offer, and it's part of why it is biting back at them, seeing as the number of sales keeps unmoved, and concurrent players dwindling by the day, now peaking at a magnificent 36 players world-wide.

Still insufficient to explain why PoE1 and PoE2 were released with similar premises and accrue 20 points higher (in a scale of 100) in all the widespread rating systems out there.

One can keep looking for shady, convenient explanations. Or maybe PoE1 and PoE2 were actual good games, and Black Geyser is not.

Then again, by all means, look around, watch videos, read actually qualified reviews, and get your own opinion. Just don't allow unqualified charlatans to fool you out of your money. That will never turn out well, not here, or in any field of life.
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May 18th, 2022, 17:42
I haven't been interested in Black Geyser because to my eyes it appears to be a generally competent fantasy game with a bland story and similar mechanics to many other games. I don't approach games the way I do, say, hamburgers. It's okay if the hamburger I eat is the same as a hundred others I've had before it, but I'm past the point where that's doable for me with games. Too boring.

But now I'm finding myself wondering what I would think about the game should I try it. Will my eyes glaze over within an hour as I expect? Maybe I'll find out.
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May 18th, 2022, 19:44
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
I haven't been interested in Black Geyser because to my eyes it appears to be a generally competent fantasy game with a bland story and similar mechanics to many other games. I don't approach games the way I do, say, hamburgers. It's okay if the hamburger I eat is the same as a hundred others I've had before it, but I'm past the point where that's doable for me with games. Too boring.

But now I'm finding myself wondering what I would think about the game should I try it. Will my eyes glaze over within an hour as I expect? Maybe I'll find out.
Yeah, with limited time it's hard to keep playing middle of the road games, but I'm a little curious to try it. I'll wait for some more patching and maybe check it out in a few months to see what's there.
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May 18th, 2022, 20:56
Originally Posted by Nereida View Post
Well, @SveNitoR, if it's genuine, then you still have no right to demand people stop speaking about what they are speaking to speak about what you want to speak. If at any point anything becomes an issue the moderators will step in to correct it.
It's basic mannerisms in human interaction.
I think @SveNitoR has the right to express his/her desire that people should focus more on Black Geyser than on debates. Expressing your desires is freedom of speech and RPGWatch rules don't prohibit it. (S)he formed an opinion that the talk should be more focused on the topic. It's you who cannot accept that (s)he expressed his/her opinion about the happenings in this topic, and instead of respecting that, you try to educate him/her with walls of text.

Talking about "mannerisms in human interaction", I don't find this style of text good manner:
Pretty sure that most people that say something tastes like shit have never eaten shit to know how it really tastes. How it looks and how it smells are more than enough to get a good idea without having to poison your system with it or waste your precious time doing it.
People in my opinion shouldn't use bad words like this. [removed]
Last edited by Eye; May 18th, 2022 at 21:28. Reason: Removed shit
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May 18th, 2022, 21:20
Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
I have to say the it is highly likely the people with such a strong opinion haven't even played the game or even own it in their steam accounts (or any other platform)!!!
I doubt that very much. Keep in mind that the Beta was free for anyone to play on Steam.

I don't have a strong opinion myself. To me, it wasn't bad, but it's not very good either. Generic would be a good way to describe it.

Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
I think it is pretty darn close to Pillars 1 though - excluding the brilliant White March expansion.
I don't think it's anywhere near the same quality as PoE.
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May 18th, 2022, 22:00
Originally Posted by Pladio View Post
So, why is it called Black Geyser?

[emoji849]
"Black" is in there because it evokes the company Black Isle (compare the game's logo to Black Isle's logo), and the initials are "BG" to evoke Baldur's Gate. "Geyser" was the wildcard, seems like they could have chosen better

Their next game will be Portents of Evil.
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May 18th, 2022, 22:01
Originally Posted by Stingray View Post

Their next game will be Portents of Evil.
For Pillars of Eternity?
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May 18th, 2022, 22:08
I'll say this: I give them credit for Black Geyser being an original game, albeit perhaps a highly derivative one. Better than Beamdog, who made all their money taking other people's work, slightly changing it, and re-releasing it.
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May 18th, 2022, 22:15
Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
Better than Beamdog, who made all their money taking other people's work, slightly changing it, and re-releasing it.
It's surprising how often I see people say this without knowing what they're talking about. Beamdog was founded by Trent Oster and Cameron Tofer of Bioware. Oster was also one of the original founders of Bioware.
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May 18th, 2022, 22:20
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
It's surprising how often I see people say this without knowing what they're talking about. Beamdog was founded by Trent Oster and Cameron Tofer of Bioware. Oster was also one of the original founders of Bioware.
Trent Oster was never a designer, on any title. He had nothing to do with BG, BG2, Icewind Dale 1, or Icewind Dale 2. "Founder" means he had money to put together a company, just like he did with Beamdog. Big deal.

He was the producer/director of NWN (still not a designer). So okay, he organized the actual creative people on that game.
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May 18th, 2022, 22:24
Actually, he did work on BG, but that's moot. My point was that your original comment was hyperbole. Beamdog was founded by people who were associated with those games in one way or another.
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May 18th, 2022, 22:41
Originally Posted by Stingray View Post
"Black" is in there because it evokes the company Black Isle (compare the game's logo to Black Isle's logo), and the initials are "BG" to evoke Baldur's Gate. "Geyser" was the wildcard, seems like they could have chosen better

Their next game will be Portents of Evil.
I wonder if it will have more than 36 concurrent players on Steam…
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May 18th, 2022, 23:47
I'm loving all the love that this thread is getting. It has the most posts of any actual cRPG thread in recent history.

Clearly this means Black Geyser is the greatest game in recent memory!

Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Actually, he did work on BG, but that's moot. My point was that your original comment was hyperbole. Beamdog was founded by people who were associated with those games in one way or another.
Yes….he worked in the Art department as one of 6 modellers and he wasn't there for most of the development. He actually spent more time as an uncredited QA than he did modelling. I'm not sure that qualifies as much of a contribution.

Note: While he might of been one of the 6 founders of Bioware he also left the company before it released a single game and also before work even commenced on BG.
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May 19th, 2022, 00:02
Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
I'm loving all the love that this thread is getting. It has the most posts of any actual cRPG thread in recent history.
Yes, talking about players instead of the ball always increases the chance of people responding.
You mentioned me, out of the blue.
So here I am, still waiting for your answer:
Originally Posted by Eye View Post
Excuse me? What I said? Are you trying to drag me into this, sir?
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May 19th, 2022, 00:06
Originally Posted by Eye View Post
Yes, talking about players instead of the ball always increases the chance of people responding.
You mentioned me, out of the blue.
So here I am, still waiting for your answer:
Oh, merely your reference before that most visitors to RPGWatch don't go into the forums/dig deeper. I was saying that by keeping posting in the thread it is keeping the link up on the front page. That was all.
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May 19th, 2022, 00:37
Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
Yes….he worked in the Art department as one of 6 modellers and he wasn't there for most of the development. He actually spent more time as an uncredited QA than he did modelling. I'm not sure that qualifies as much of a contribution.

Note: While he might of been one of the 6 founders of Bioware he also left the company before it released a single game and also before work even commenced on BG.
Trent Oster was with Bioware up until Dragon Age, so you're either thinking of someone else or you're getting your info from a bad source. He was one of the core designers of Neverwinter Nights.
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May 19th, 2022, 01:14
Originally Posted by JDR13 View Post
Trent Oster was with Bioware up until Dragon Age, so you're either thinking of someone else or you're getting your info from a bad source. He was one of the core designers of Neverwinter Nights.
Yes, I didn't say otherwise. He rejoined later but at that point he was no longer an owner…I was referring to your comment that he was a founder of Bioware as if that was something significant and you overstating his involvement in Baldurs Gate.

Now, as to your reference that he was a "core designer" of NWN. Yes, he was one of the nine core game designers on the original NWN release. I'm not sure how that is a good thing though? NWN has a horrendous OC and the UI is abysmal - especially when compared to BG2 - which Trent said he didn't like!!

The true star of NWN was the tools team which Trent was not actually involved in. They were the ones who created the toolset that allowed the community and the expansions to be successful.

He had very little involvement (producer) as part of HotUD. David Gaider was the principal designer and writer.

Originally Posted by JFarrell71 View Post
He was the producer/director of NWN (still not a designer). So okay, he organized the actual creative people on that game.
He was a core designer on both the NWN OC and SoU i.e. he is one of the people to blame for the bad modules!
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May 19th, 2022, 04:36
Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
Yes, I didn't say otherwise.
You claimed he left the company before they released a single game while conveniently leaving out anything about NWN (until after I called it out) which would make someone who didn't know any better think that was the entirety of his career with them. In short, it was both dishonest and blantantly false.

I'm sure it was completely unintentional though.

Originally Posted by bjon045 View Post
I was referring to your comment that he was a founder of Bioware as if that was something significant and you overstating his involvement in Baldurs Gate.
Nice spin there, though I don't see the point of it. I didn't overstate anything. I only said he worked on BG, and he did. He's credited as being part of the modelling team and with testing. Did I claim something else? As for being a founder, most people would consider that significant.
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