RPGWatch Feature - Pathfinder: Kingmaker Review

Actually just started to play this game,few hours into it not bad at all so for

Moorkh said:

Playing this right now, but while I love the game's systems and game world, I find myself quite entirely unimpressed by its premise. I feel the game's lvl1-cast to be a woefully inadequate choice for the primary quest (it seems absurd that Jamandi wouldn't task a band of veterans instead) and, frankly, no pc I'd ever generate could be a natural leader-type. So there is no sense of urgency, no sense of involvement or, indeed, any real motivation at all for my rogue to pursue her monumental task of usurping power in a war-torn province. Already in the first encounter at Oleg's place, I feel railroaded towards dialogue choices that seem entirely alien. Why would I get involved in that squabble at all? The prospect of having to babysit an entire barony of complete strangers does not appeal at all.

Should I continue or chuck this from my hdd before I waste any more time? I have the nagging feeling that I'd miss out on a great adventure, but I just don't see it atm.

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I'm guessing you are only a few hours in? Why don't you give it a few more hours in and see how you feel? Especially since you have the feeling you will miss out if you quit now

I don't think you neccessarily need to play a leader or a hero. I haven't done it myself but others have done evil or solo runs as well. Why do you feel railroaded or think dialogue choices are alien?

purpleblob said:

Why do you feel railroaded or think dialogue choices are alien?

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I would have liked to have the choice not to involve myself into that tax/protection money conflict. There was no incentive for my pc to care either way: I was not antagonised by either group. There is nothing to make me assume the Staglord's men are evil bastards. But the game lets me neither avoid the conflict nor negotiate a non-violent resolution nor even side with the taxmen.

I can see that this is a narrative driven game, so I don't fully expect to be able to avoid eventually toppling the Staglord or renounce that Barony the designers so obviously want to thrust on my rogue character. But then I'd expect to be given some plausible incentive to walk the way the devs want me to.

Thanks for the review. Well thought out, well organized and written.

Moorkh: I have similar feelings about the kingdom ruling thing. I just have to accept the premise… no matter what character I play, that character will eventually be in charge of ruling a Barony or kingdom. I just have no interest in that angle at all. Even thinking about it is a little discouraging… sounds like homework. But, that's the game. Take it or leave it.

I only got through Old Sycamore. I found that dungeon and area outdoor map to be full of bad design decisions. Unnecessarily complicated level layout forces multiple loading screens The "fog" on the map is confusing, too, which led me to more loading screens as I tried to figure out where to go. The skill checks to move to different parts of the map is an interesting idea, but the way it is implemented is really immersion breaking to me. Feels disjointed and disorienting. Too many trash mobs. There's just weird small design decisions all over the game for me. Admittedly I haven't played much, and I'm waiting a few months before restarting and playing through. The alignment system is always going to be contentious, and they probably should have scrapped it. I'm not encouraged by some of the things I've seen so far.

But… I'm hooked in a way. I keep thinking about it, and planning my next character. Small touches— like the mini-figures for the random encounters on the overworld map— are really clever and thoughtful. And I love that there's a playfulness to the tone. It's not grim dark and overly serious. It has moments where it really feels like I'm playing at a table.

@Moorkh; - yes, the game is story driven so there will be some railroading. I went into the game wanting to play a heroic Baroness so I didn't have any issues with the premise. You can perhaps go with the mercernary mindset? You are hired by Aldori swordlords to do their bidding and see how things work out. To be fair, the game makes it quite clear you are getting into this as a future ruler of the lands (hence, the name Kingmaker )

As I mentioned in the review, you can turn on auto or invicible kingdom management if you want to focus on adventuring. I turned down kingdom management to "easy" and only visited my kingdom once or twice a month most of the time - didn't find it particularly stressful to juggle both roles.

@Ovenall; I understand that things here and there are irritating you but you will notice that there also many small details that makes Kingmaker so charming and addictive

Good work, this is not a game that would be easy to review. Also it seems clear that feelings of people are mixed about it and not only because of buggy release. Kingdom management was reason why I did not back it and later completely forgot about it. But after 170 hours in the game it is clear that this is not only GOTY for me but game of the MANY years (at least). Well, I have kingdom to rule so see ya later

Great work.

I left the game late october. The lag was killing it for me. I thought that patching will fix it for me. I tried the game some days ago and the lagging is still there(better but still there).
I'm really close to completely abandon it.

akarthis said:

Great work.

I left the game late october. The lag was killing it for me. I thought that patching will fix it for me. I tried the game some days ago and the lagging is still there(better but still there).
I'm really close to completely abandon it.

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Sorry to hear that Did you try to contact Owlcat Team about the lag? So it's not the long loading screen but actual lag during the gameplay? Hope someone will be able help you to fix this, it will be sad to hear you abandoning this gem due to a technical issue

Try posting in Owlcat forums or press F11 and report the issue in game.

akarthis said:

I left the game late october. The lag was killing it for me. I thought that patching will fix it for me. I tried the game some days ago and the lagging is still there(better but still there).I'm really close to completely abandon it.

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This was a known problem since it left Early Access. I remember a few hot-fixes added a few optimization fixes. These were my two main gripes load times, and occasional lag.

Patch 1.1 made load times faster, but my map still has some lag when traveling.

Excellent review - thank you for that

Good review. And I agree with most points. I have still not reached last two chapters as I put the game on pause to wait for 1.2 patch. But now that patch notes for 1.2 show no improvement to last two chapters I might as well continue playing the game.

I honestly don't recall any lag when I played the game, and I remember quite a few people being vocal about load times, but I didn't have issues there either. Hopefully I'm not in for a nasty surprise when I return to the game!!

purpleblob said:

Sorry to hear that Did you try to contact Owlcat Team about the lag? So it's not the long loading screen but actual lag during the gameplay? Hope someone will be able help you to fix this, it will be sad to hear you abandoning this gem due to a technical issue

Try posting in Owlcat forums or press F11 and report the issue in game.

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No, i did not try to contact them. I thought that i should wait for all the patching and then contact them,if the problem insists.
The lag started at the beginning of the second act and it's during gameplay. I have no problems with loading times.. First act was smooth. I checked some forums and realized other people had the exact same problem . Up until now, no solution.

I'll wait for some more patching and then contact them. Thanks for your replies guys.

akarthis said:

No, i did not try to contact them. I thought that i should wait for all the patching and then contact them,if the problem insists.
The lag started at the beginning of the second act and it's during gameplay. I have no problems with loading times.. First act was smooth. I checked some forums and realized other people had the exact same problem . Up until now, no solution.

I'll wait for some more patching and then contact them. Thanks for your replies guys.

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If you don't report it nothing will get fixed. Even if you report it , they might not fix it.
I reported twice already (through email and with ingame F11 method) that Dwarf racial bonus vs poisons is not working (with screeshots) and it was never fixed (but in 1.2 patchnotes they mentioned fixing missing dwarf bonus vs bull rushes lol) .
Russians work in mysterious ways

It's unfortunate when game developers save the end game to the last. It's something I think they should design and start working on early in the process; a memorable ending can take a good game and make it great.

Archangel said:

If you don't report it nothing will get fixed. Even if you report it , they might not fix it.
I reported twice already (through email and with ingame F11 method) that Dwarf racial bonus vs poisons is not working (with screeshots) and it was never fixed (but in 1.2 patchnotes they mentioned fixing missing dwarf bonus vs bull rushes lol) .
Russians work in mysterious ways

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May be it's because you aren't familiar with their language.

Nice job, Purple…in responding to the comments, too. You're like a pro PR person for RPG reviews.

rjshae said:

It's unfortunate when game developers save the end game to the last. It's something I think they should design and start working on early in the process; a memorable ending can take a good game and make it great.

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It is not always possible to do that unfortunately. To craft an end game level, you have to have all (or at best most) abilities available in-game and functional depending on the type of game. Ability tuning also happens during development and can lead to reworking a level when things change, and that has a much bigger impact on end game levels. Obviously, there should be some work done up front and it sounds like Owlcat left their end game to the literal end. The last levels of the game have to be the cleanest and tightest from a design standpoint because those levels typically have to deal with *all* of the potential player options. Hopefully that gets fixed long before I grab this game. And hopefully the timer "fix" still works by then too (whatever it is).

I don't mind timers that actually feel like a choice was made. But when the choice is a default due to not having the resources available within the timeframe of the timer to respond (because of a previous choice), that feels a lot less like an active choice or reasonable consequence.

Oh, and good review.

Thank you for that awesome review @purpleblob;

Ephiron said:

The "mediocre kingdom management system" is better than anything else I've seen aside from Crusader Kings 2 and that's a grand strategy. I'd be interested to know what RPGs did that better.

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Personally, I think DA:I did it better. Also, I think not having it in at all could potentially be better - unless you can make it work well enough.

I think parts of it are excellent and surprisingly thorough - but the overall implementation leaves much to be desired, and I find it disruptive to the flow of gameplay more so than an enhancement.

With that said, it's "close enough" for them to be able to turn it into something that works well - if they make a few changes. I see they've already added a teleportation mechanic of some kind - which will probably make some of the back-and-forth crap less annoying.

To each his own, though.