Drakensang The more I play the more disappointed I get

I really enjoyed the first area. It felt very open ended and mysterious. Many little quests that could be solved in a different order and certain things remain unsolvable until the right conditions are met. I like that. There were even some speech skill checks.

Spoilerish from here on:

Moving on to the next area wasn't bad at first. The city is acceptable. It doesn't have the ambience and characters found in The Witcher's city areas but it's not bad either. I enjoyed the investigation, but then I realized not once were any skill checks used when interrogating all those NPCs, what a wasted opportunity! Especially considering I created a character with buffed social skills.

Then the dungeon crawl 'deep below Ferdok' - it's probably optional but it's so unimaginative. No secret areas, nothing interesting whatsoever. Just 'wolf rat' spam attacks for four levels until you fight a large boss wolf rat.

Going to get Dranor out of jail, there are two guards facing away talking about hearing something, so I think naturally I have to sneak past. When leaving I decided to run past to see what happens and there's no reaction! They just keep repeating the same conversation. Another wasted opportunity.

And if an NPC has a problem that only you can solve, they'll keep obnoxiously repeating the same line over and over again until you take the quest.

I'm starting to wonder why this game is so acclaimed. I do like some aspects of it, and I'll press on a little longer in hopes of some improvement, some more use of non combat skills, and a little more creativity like in the first area. Am I expecting too much from the rest of the game?

You are focusing on the negative. I agree that the rat spam was too much but the other things you mention don't bother me, I don't look at wasted opportunities I see an enjoyable game. For example, if an NPC repeats the same line over and over until you take his quest I don't care about that, it doesn't bother me at all, I take his quest and that's the end of it.

The game is definitely not close to perfect or perfectly polished. However, it's very enjoyable from what I have played so far.

ok the repeated line thing isn't that bad (but it's silly when the guards repeat their entire conversation about hearing rats and wanting to play dice. I guess I should've known that sneaking was pointless therefore wouldn't have kept hearing it)

It's the lack of non combat skill checks that's a real letdown, especially for a game that has long stretches without combat.

Did you play many sidequests? You must have been unlucky so far, because there are many social skill related conversation options, you get them even for skills of your companions. As far as I remember you get no skill roll after choosing an option, but you only get the option if the skill is high enough.

bkrueger said:

As far as I remember you get no skill roll after choosing an option, but you only get the option if the skill is high enough.

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In most cases that is true, however in some cases you must pass a roll. Of the top of my mind I can think about the ...

There are plenty skills check, yes more would have been better and yes the game isn't the best polished. Look at it differently:

• The Witcher has no skill check when Drakenseng hasn't enough skills check but much more than The Witcher.
• In The Witcher you feel there are limits quite often when in Drakensang you get much more feeling of freedom even if sometimes it's more smart illusion.
• Drakensang use 3D much much better than the Witcher in order to avoid a flat non imaginative area design.
• The Witcher towns get the best life animation I ever saw in a CRPG, hard to compare with it on this point. But those towns have weak points in comparison with Drakensang, poor performances, few streets, very small towns, boring empty little houses, a 3D design much less intricate than in Drakensang, much less stuff to discover than in the Drakensang town...
• Your complain about repetitive fights and lack of secrets is valid but The Witcher know well felt into this problem too and I don't remember much traps as the traps with more than 10 rats suddenly rushing on you.
• The Witcher fights had a terrible flaw allowing in most fights to just focus on a stupid hit chaining just looking at the cursor color when Drakensang fights haven't such hole and when fights get some challenge they are quite fun.

The Dranor quest you quote is a nice little quest, with surprises and quite funny, that worth much more than a sneak skill check.

About that, go on so, there's a skill check then you fail it because in your team you have a dwarf with no sneak skills... Then how it continues? You enter in war with all the town? You kills the guards and nobody notice? Well the game option is the guard dialog that explains the lack of sneak skill check. Quite smart if you ask me.

The more I play the more I enjoy Drakensang. But well The Witcher is quite good and at the end I'm almost sure that I'll consider it better. But that doesn't mean all other CRPG not as good are bad.

Curunír said:

In most cases that is true, however in some cases you must pass a roll...

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I think in many cases but you'll hardly notice a succeed roll, the game mention that the NPC shows it by his reaction but well for me it's not obvious except when I failed one.

With all the skilled companions you have the game is somehow setup to match a lot their skills. That make your PC skills less obviously usefull, but well that's also the nice part of party games.

Dasale said:

I think in many cases but you'll hardly notice a succeed roll, the game mention that the NPC shows it by his reaction but well for me it's not obvious except when I failed one.

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You might be correct. I remember recently getting a fail on an early social talent option (don't remember which, though) which I would have put in the "always succeeds, if it shows up" category before, because I attempted it with an abyssmal skill value in the respective talent.

The more i play the more immersed i become. I was little dissapointed in the beginning and the first quests. But now - oh boy. I can't stop playing. Don't know how far i come and i don't wanna know.

mbuddha said:

ok the repeated line thing isn't that bad (but it's silly when the guards repeat their entire conversation about hearing rats and wanting to play dice. I guess I should've known that sneaking was pointless therefore wouldn't have kept hearing it)

It's the lack of non combat skill checks that's a real letdown, especially for a game that has long stretches without combat.

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I could use more non-combat skill checks and hopefully that would be part of a sequel. It's very tough to come up with situations in which non-combat skill checks could be meaningful and realistic so I wouldn't expect a ton of it in a first game. That said, there are still a lot of non-combat skill checks with a whole lot of lockpicking, a good amount of disable traps, plant lore a huge amount, animal lore a huge amount.... Hmmm, I take back what I indicated, there are plenty of non-combat skill checks! There aren't all that many meaningful conversation skill checks, though, so hopefully that can be improved in a sequel if done well.

I like Dasale's post comparing The Witcher to Drakensang. I enjoyed The Witcher but I'm enjoying Drakensang quite a bit more (part of that is due to the very poor translation for The Witcher when I played it before the patch but that's only part of it).

The brewery was the least interesting area I've run into in Drakensang. It's basically just a long dungeon crawl.

I didn't know that the guards didn't react to you not sneaking; however, there are multiple times where you do need to sneak past enemies (or get rewarded for doing so), in upcoming dungeons.

Also, there are a lot of ways the game anticipates your actions. I'd wait until you get to say...the zone past the Marsh (Bloodstone Mountains I think it's called). You'll see at that point.

Dasale said:

There are plenty skills check, yes more would have been better and yes the game isn't the best polished. Look at it differently:
[*]The Witcher has no skill check when Drakenseng hasn't enough skills check but much more than The Witcher.

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I wasn't comparing the two games just the vibe of the city areas and that I said that while Drakensang's areas are nice The Witcher's are much better. But seeing as you expand upon the comparison, the absence of skill checks in TW is a moot point because there aren't any social skills in that system and the dialogue, voice acting, and story are much better (so far).

[*]In The Witcher you feel there are limits quite often when in Drakensang you get much more feeling of freedom even if sometimes it's more smart illusion.

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I think the level of freedom is about the same in both games. Drakensang has plenty of sections blocked off by carts, so I don't see how there is much more freedom than in The Witcher. At least in terms of the city.

[*]The Witcher towns get the best life animation I ever saw in a CRPG, hard to compare with it on this point. But those towns have weak points in comparison with Drakensang, poor performances, few streets, very small towns, boring empty little houses, a 3D design much less intricate than in Drakensang, much less stuff to discover than in the Drakensang town...

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I haven't played far enough to comment on that other than I found the interior locations and NPCs to be MUCH more interactive in The Witcher.

[*]Your complain about repetitive fights and lack of secrets is valid but The Witcher know well felt into this problem too and I don't remember much traps as the traps with more than 10 rats suddenly rushing on you.
[*]The Witcher fights had a terrible flaw allowing in most fights to just focus on a stupid hit chaining just looking at the cursor color when Drakensang fights haven't such hole and when fights get some challenge they are quite fun.

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I wasn't complaining about the combat itself. I quite enjoy the combat in Drakensang, just wish the enemies were less repetitive in some areas that I've played so far and also read that this happens some more towards the end. I also enjoy the combat in TW and while I suppose the swamp area was overkill in terms of enemies they could be avoided and weren't part of a quest, plus they were much more varied.

About that, go on so, there's a skill check then you fail it because in your team you have a dwarf with no sneak skills... Then how it continues? You enter in war with all the town? You kills the guards and nobody notice? Well the game option is the guard dialog that explains the lack of sneak skill check. Quite smart if you ask me.

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I suppose you have a point about the dwarf. I actually selected my two thief characters separately first to sneak cause I wasn't so sure how much farther I needed to go but I guess the game isn't designed to really separate your characters. The conversations should play only once though cause it just sounds stupid.

The more I play the more I enjoy Drakensang. But well The Witcher is quite good and at the end I'm almost sure that I'll consider it better. But that doesn't mean all other CRPG not as good are bad.

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I agree and I don't think Drakensang is bad, just disappointing in some areas, more so than other games I like.

For games comparison you did many between The Witcher and Drakensang I tried follow that approach.

For the conversation replay it's a little complicate in case you don't notice it the first time it is triggered, there's the log but it could be override by some other messages. But yes, few random pauses and few different random talks could have provide the information in a more pleasant way.

As wrote NFLed you focus too much on the negative, Drakenseng has plenty positive points including some you won't find in the Witcher like the numerous cool companions or as I already wrote a much better use of 3D to design terrains and towns.

Any CRPG has plenty weaker points, even The Witcher or Gothic 2 NOTR which is my all time favorite. Drakensang has probably more weaker points that those both but, for me at least, it is very enjoyable anyway. Too bad for you if you can't enjoy its qualities, but clearly I won't be able help you.

"Any CRPG has plenty weaker points..."

That's true, it's a very complicated thing to create an enjoyable and realistic CRPG to our preferences (i.e. not a JRPG or action-RPG) and there will always be some sort of implementation which could use improvement. I somewhat enjoyed The Witcher and only slightly enjoyed Gothic 2, I'm enjoying Drakensang a whole lot more than either of those and I hope that word gets out (to other than Germany) so more people buy it because that would help future good CRPGs get funded and created.

The witcher disappointed me immensely. I absolutely loathe the fact that it didnt matter what choices you make as long as you get to have sex with the girls to get those damn cards. It is like the killed off the moral consequences just for the sake of the the card mini game. After a while i couldnt take it any more.

Huh? Ignore the card game - I certainly didn't bother with it. How did they affect everything else?

I was referring to the witcher's card collecting sidequest thingy not drakensangs which i havent even started(dont know how to). The combat was okay in the witcher, but what compelled me to the witcher orginally was the story but it turns out that it was nothing but a facade for collecting those cards. As in the worst choice you make in the witcher is not choosing the options to get to sleeping with the girls.

Well, I've been two days into this game and I've been enjoying it. It's not the prettiest game, like the Witcher, but I'd say it has WAY more character. I love seeing all the funny little dialogues between the townspeople. I like that these conversations go on for awhile and that the developers weren't afraid to make the player view some pretty long dialogue.

I take it from the lack of advertisement and interest in this game that whoever distributed this in NA wasn't very confident and probably didn't spend all that much money on it, and yet its localization is near flawless. The dialogue is clear and quite clever. This is something the Witcher failed miserably at, even in the Enhanced Edition. I could barely make out what the developer meant and couldn't help but facepalm whenever Geralt got into philosophy.

And yes, the sex cards are pretty lame. The game may be rated M for mature, but it's anything but that!

Dasale said:

For games comparison you did many between The Witcher and Drakensang I tried follow that approach.

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No, I only made one total comparison to The Witcher in my original post.

Dasale said:

Any CRPG has plenty weaker points, even The Witcher or Gothic 2 NOTR which is my all time favorite. Drakensang has probably more weaker points that those both but, for me at least, it is very enjoyable anyway. Too bad for you if you can't enjoy its qualities, but clearly I won't be able help you.

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Agreed on the all time fav.

I do find many positive things about Drakensang, I just haven't delved into them here. I like the combat, the party system, the playable characters and their dialogue, the visuals, and much of what I had already played was fun. I'm not done playing, perhaps like suggested I hit several less exemplary areas in a row, and some of the responses here mention there will be more of some of the things I expressed to be missing (i.e. sneaking past enemies and social skill checks). And as a series there's a lot of promise.

Hi everyone!
The thread starter has exactly my words from the official Drakensang forum and at that point I felt the same, but believe me. The game gets "after" Ferdok much much better.

After completing few quests on Ferdok, and remember most of the quests are optional and you might want to pass some of them at that point, you will be heading areas like:

Just area types, no big spoilers.